Euro E39 touring - noob to the forum

[adm750]

finally got the windows tinted after about 2 yrs driving it
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another interior shot....
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everyone has probably been here too....this was "OF housing gasket, radiator, tank, water pump, t/stat, idlers, belts, drain and flush p/s system" day...started Saturday morning...drove it sat night...
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I really should have bought an I6 car... But then I'd prob just try to turbo it or S54 swap it. Or both.

I like the I6's too but the 525 just has no balls. Even the 528 had enough torque to maintain speed on varying terrain....you gotta run that 525 hard, but it likes it...and sips fuel when doing it. I'd love a v8 car but I don't have the wallet for that. (my wife NEEDS a 540..!!) The e39 chassis 540 was an unbeatable combo imo. A tad nose heavy...they never felt as lithe (lol...) as an I6 chassis, and the steering wasn't as sharp as a "rack" car...but the power more than made up for that...and 90% of the population is never gonna notice. You really gotta nit pick to find fault with a 540...
mine needs more motor and a manual shift...gotta figure out how/when to do that. I love the car tons...but it needs more power without blowing drive ability. I'd be happy with a motor from a 530...then open up the intake and exhaust a bit...manual trans...keep the factory wheel and tire sizes.

[AquilaBMW]

Great looking car. Interesting mix and matching on the interior. I would have thought they would have used that leather on the lower dash as well, but then that would require a full or partial leather dash - I guess.

That OF gasket has got to be one of the most annoying jobs there is. It's like a $3 dollar gasket that requires a crap load of labour - UGH!

[adm750]

Great looking car. Interesting mix and matching on the interior. I would have thought they would have used that leather on the lower dash as well, but then that would require a full or partial leather dash - I guess.

That OF gasket has got to be one of the most annoying jobs there is. It's like a $3 dollar gasket that requires a crap load of labour - UGH!

thanks for the compliments....from you and from Geargrinder.....I appreciate the kind words. Yes..it's different...lol...especially with the black headliner and the two-tone wheel...but I like it. I'm more fond of the headliner and yes...the OF housing gasket is a lot of labor...easier than I anticipated but very time consuming !!! I did that same whole list to my wife's 528 a few weeks later. double ugh...BUT I went full OEM with that stupid gasket....so $10.38 and a crap load of labor....lol... Oh man...I need to post the part number for the t/stat gasket set you can get from Autozone. It's a Rein (sp?) and comes with both pcs needed and is very cheap..! The website only shows one half of what you get.

[olds350]

...the OF housing gasket is a lot of labor...easier than I anticipated but very time consuming !!! I did that same whole list to my wife's 528 a few weeks later. double ugh...BUT I went full OEM with that stupid gasket....so $10.38 and a crap load of labor....

I feel your pain on the OF gasket. The PO of my touring had striped out the top right bolt hole. I had to add a heli-coil to the block on my 525. THAT was a PITA. The drill I had just did fit to drill out the hole, so I didn't have to remove the intake. Fortunately it's all back together and no more leaks.

[adm750]

I feel your pain on the OF gasket. The PO of my touring had striped out the top right bolt hole. I had to add a heli-coil to the block on my 525. THAT was a PITA. The drill I had just did fit to drill out the hole, so I didn't have to remove the intake. Fortunately it's all back together and no more leaks.

oh man...that doesn't sound like any fun at all !!!

[adm750]

ok...this puts the "F" in fun....
sls pump inop.jpg
Found out tonight why the pump stopped running as of last Saturday morning...I have a pin removal tool but not having any luck removing it so far. I'll take anyone's $.02 on where the locking tabs are on these pins. Apparently I haven't held my head at the right angle yet to get the damned thing out...

[adm750]

got it !! PITA
elect. contact.jpg

looks to be soldered not crimped....!! now to find a replacement....

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I also owed you guys some pictures of those valves....so I thought, what the heck...might as well pull one last night and have a photo shoot. I was pulling the alternator out of my wife's 528 last night as well, so I had no shortage of projects....grrrrrr....
shoot...pics taking too long...will have to finish this tonight....

[adm750]

This is a shot of the connectors...and he small metal locking clip in the position where they can be removed (like anyone needed that picture...but here it is)
valve connectors.jpg

This is one of those valves removed. Just loosen the two screws evenly. If the assembly is in the car and there is air in the system, it will try to escape while removing the valve so make sure you don't just run these screws out quickly. Slow and even.... Once the screws are out, the solenoid slides straight out.
control valve.jpg

This is of the solenoid expanded...with the piston and the spring removed. The o-ring can be taken off, cleaned and lubricated. I used Parker O-lube on it, and the surface inside the solenoid where the o-ring makes contact. O-lube is pretty tenacious stuff so use it sparingly. I rubbed some O-lube on the face of that piston. That is soft rubber and makes contact with the port in the valve body. I also put a dab of 3-1 oil on my fingers (the ones w/o the O-lube on them...haha) and rubbed the piston itself just to coat it and protect against moisture damage. I did that to the solenoid body too. Since my pump was akin to a fish tank bubbler when I first bought the car, you can see the white corrosion on a lot of surfaces still.

control valve expanded.jpg

[geargrinder]

Good stuff man. Not a lot to go wrong there. O-ring and probably even spring you can easily replace.

Other failure modes?
If the rubber piston face seals erode then that's a potential problem area that'd be hard to solve unless we can find another cross-ref application for that type of solenoid with the "Jr Power Timer" connectors and the same exact format.
If the solenoid burned out that'd be another issue, but solenoids being so simple (electro magnet windings) and with the circuit being protected from over-run by the module logic that'd be extremely rare.

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Regarding rusty exp tanks - just came across this interesting post as well... Suggests the drier in the pump can get saturated and require servicing..

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/7931225-post15.html

actually I should stick this stuff in different thread since we're threadjacking pretty good here...

[adm750]

Good stuff man. ///// we're threadjacking pretty good here...

Ha ! no worries on jackin' this thread my friend..! I just consider it good conversation Right-o on the solenoids. Simple devices who's life expectancy should exceed the vehicle they are in. The deterioration issue is exactly why I lubed those surfaces. Keeps the face pliable in hopes to ensure a good seal. I see that I also mis-stated the lube points so let me clarify. I pulled that o-ring off the solenoid, used a small brass brush to clean the flange on the solenoid body of any corrosion, lubed the o-ring and the small flange on the solenoid. I then used a fleece-crested scepter of Q-teeep to lightly lube the surface inside the plastic valve block (where the solenoid o-ring makes contact when you reinsert it...). Again...a little lube goes a long way so don't overdo it.

I'm also very pleased that you shared the MB pump drier service thread. Thank You !!! That's cool. I almost wish my pump had that just so I could service it...!! lol... That exact thought came to mind as was driving in this morning. What are the chances As I have been looking over this system for the past two days, I started to think about how I keep moisture out of the lines and the bags. So I planned to investigate how I can add driers in-line with the air delivery lines. The moisture won't creep UP the pipes from the reservoirs...but the humidity from them could. I don't think there will be much chance to dry all air avenues to the bags....but I could try to reduce the moisture fed to the bags from the pump via a line drier in each left and right side supply line. I'm going to do some digging and will post what I come up with. I have access to all the fittings and adapters needed(like FlyOver has been using...) and access to filtration devices as well. I'd love to come up with a solution that the other e39 touring members could easily adapt to abate moisture in their SLS systems. I'll post all findings.

I also just ordered new sport bags from Aerosus today, so we'll see how that works out when they arrive.

[geargrinder]

adm - there IS a drier in our system, it just isn't exactly like that one. it's clearly described/indicated in the factory documentation. I think you'd need to get further deep into disassembling the pump to find it. the MB link provides a guide for the kind of thing you're looking for in there...

damn I was just at the junkyard yesterday and they had a new touring but I didn't check to see if it had SLS - I shoulda, wouldn't mind adding a pump assembly to my parts pile and doing some further investingation into it.

[adm750]

:/ somehow I just knew you'd say that...so I checked it out. I'm unable to locate a drier for the pump air. I took the inlet horn apart and this is what it looks like inside...
pump head 2.jpg pump head 1.jpgpump head 3.jpg
That nylon insert (opaque) can be removed using a 6mm allen by pressing inward and turning clockwise. You do have to take the pump assembly off the base as the relay bracket turns up right in front of that and there is not enough clearance to get that out with the bracket in place. There is a LOT of spring tension here so just be firm and have it under control. There are two tabs (ears) that must be locked in place. Again, press inwards, turn clockwise to remove. Before removing it just press inwards on that so you get a feel for the tension and can visualize the tabs and where they need to move. It will only take about an 1/8th of a turn...not much before it wants to come out.
The small disc has a rubber surface on one side and that goes to the inside (it makes contact inside the housing at the port). This is where I thought there may be a small desiccant load that would 'dry' the air. Not so. But...it's another leak point. I lubed the face of that disc as well as the o-ring on the insert.

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I don't see any drier element to this assembly at all...nor can I think of where one might be in the chassis. So I'm at a loss there. This is what it looks like before you refit that piece... the metal part of the disc faces outwards...then just firm pressure to get the insert back in there against the spring pressure, and counterclockwise to seat the tabs....
Well...pics aren't loading....
sorry the bench is a mess in those other photos...I just got done cleaning the commutator, the shoes, and the tabs for the windings on my wife's 528i. Charging ok after repairs...! original alternator...almost 250k miles on it. It would have been replace if someone else diagnosed it, but I thought I'd try this first. Cleaned all electrical contact points and all the shite out of the cooling duct. Good for another 250k

[geargrinder]

adm -

I think you're missing it in a 'right in front of you' way.... What you opened up I think is what they call the 'pressure maintenance valve' (I think we'd call it a 'regulator' in non-translated English...)

Look at the MB first picture where he's holding the case in his left hand. The drier is inside that big plastic cylinder that is directly in between the inlet and the pump motor. Its big, not a little bitty thing.

The BMW part is not exactly the same shape but functionally roughly identical. I presume you take the 2 big hex nuts off and its inside that black plastic cylinder housing?

I understand if you decide this is too gnarly and risky to try without a spare in hand but I think you're real close and I'd bet anything its in that cylinder.

Have you watched the bagpipingandy video too? Shows you exactly whats inside the pump assembly itself down on the far end there... pretty interesting.. More I see inside these the more it confirms my hope that repairing them should be possible 90% of the time...

[adm750]

ya know what...you're probably right. I thought it might be in the 'head' of the pump body too...like you said, right before that valve. I thought about taking the pump body apart again today but when I looked inside it (during previous r/r's), it's just a molded bore that 90's off to a hole that the piston pushes the air in to. It could well be behind that.....but you cannot see it from inside the cylinder bore. That would mean it's molded into the end where that 'press maint. valve' sits. The piston stroke certainly does not utilize the entire length of that cylinder but it looks like a dead end at first glance when you inspect the bore. I might need to dig deeper as you say. Nothing's too gnarly...haha...I figure what the heck, if I can take it apart, I should be able to put it back together right...?? lol...!! I've had every damned part of that pump disassembled previously (...even as far as pulling the motor assembly apart by removing those longitudinal bolts with the flat tabs on them that you have to grab with pliers to unscrew so I could remove the commutator for the motor to clean it all up...) but I'm pretty green with these and the only "drier" I was looking for when I first rebuilt that whole thing was a hairdryer.
Haven't watched bagpipe's video yet. I need to do that. That might shed some more light on the subject. Thanks for the reminder/tip
Have a great night and thank you for all your input. You've provided me with very useful information as well as that gentle nudge to dig deeper....and deeeeeper....

[geargrinder]

Dude thanks for digging into it. It's amazing how nobody has wanted to do this befor - most owners treat it like poison and nuclear waste cocktail to be avoided at all costs.

[adm750]

Dude thanks for digging into it. It's amazing how nobody has wanted to do this befor - most owners treat it like poison and nuclear waste cocktail to be avoided at all costs.

haha...I totally agree with that statement !!

I grew up having to fix things and that's a hard habit to get out of. Plus, I like to get to the inner workings of things. Growing up we didn't have a lot of money, so replacement was not much of an option, which meant you had to fix whatever broke. Hell, I can't remember how many times we fixed the damned toaster before we finally replaced it...haha. It's just what ya' did. I've watched a lot of people toss a lot of parts at cars and they wind up missing an opportunity for understanding how things really work.
Glad to be able to share a few notes on this forum, (...and as I noted, I appreciate your posts in reply). Hopefully this stuff can be of use to someone else along the way and it keeps them from "drinking the juice" and shying away from a little disassembly.

[adm750]

Ok - so I received my air springs from Aerosus and I have attached pictures of what I have received. One bag is screened with the company logo, has the proper label at the top, a uniformly-crimped upper band, and even comes with OEM-appearance clear O-rings at the fitting and came in an Aerosus box. The other bag, however, looks to be something very different and was most likely produced by another vendor for them. Yellow label, a very poorly and unevenly crimped upper ring, no company logo printed on the part, and in a standard brown carton. It looks no different than an inexpensive Suncore bag (or any number of aftermarket bags that can be had for less than $60 on Amazon or E-bay). Aerosus claims a sport-specific application....I have no way of knowing what that other bag is. I have attached pictures for anyone who wishes to review. I also contacted them this morning and forwarded the same pictures and concerns. I have not heard back yet as their technical team is reviewing this. Meanwhile I have repairs that must be postponed until resolved.
!#%$!@ pictures won't load...

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OK - so you can see the two different cartons...the two different labels...no printed logo on one...and the nice crimp pattern on the ring of the bag with the logo on it, compared to the varying quality process that has left a questionable crimp for the upper ring of the other bag. Irina at Aerosus stated that both should have a label similar to the white one affixed to the bag that has the logo on it.
I have no clue what that other bag is...hell, I have to trust that the one that appears "correct" is a sport-specific construction offered as an alternative to a factory sport bag (as they claim) and not simply a generic bag with a different part number assigned to it. At this point I do not want to install these and am awaiting feedback from their team as to what their resolution will be.
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[geargrinder]

Huh. In for updates when they come.

[adm750]

Huh. In for updates when they come.

Yes...I was too....and this is what I received from them this morning....
Dear Tony,
Thank you for your patience.
We want to assure you that both air springs that you ordered are 100% Aerosus products.
The one with brown package and no label is from the new stock.
We are at your disposal if you have further questions.
Best regards,　
Irina,c　




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....more to come....

[geargrinder]

In other words, they have always had these contract manufactured (which is fine...) and just recently changed suppliers.
Honestly they don't look THAT different to me, but I share your feeling, I'd pretty much want both springs to 'match' at least, I'd take either one.

However, that said, they also both look pretty much identical to the Suncores or some of the other cheaper ones to me - the ones with the black plastic end plate.
The Arnotts and the BMW obv are metal plate on the end.

Not that that's the only indicator of quality - eBay seems to have a bunch of $50 springs w/ metal end plates too and those look like some of the crappest...

Interesting how many cheap generic bags have cropped up lately - few years back there wasn't nearly as many off-brand options for these...

[AquilaBMW]

If I may ask, how much were these bags? Any way to compare them to the Arnott Bags?

[adm750]

If I may ask, how much were these bags? Any way to compare them to the Arnott Bags?

absolutely Aquila....!! they were just over (like a few cents over...) $210 per pair shipped. Which is not unreasonable at all.

And I agree with Geargrinder...just cause it looks nice doesn't say anything for quality, they obviously changed suppliers, and they do both look like Suncore knockoffs. I don't have an issue with different vendors for the same component, and there will be differences. This just sticks out like a sore thumb though. And...it nags at buyer's remorse. The branded bag shows signs of a better process but hell, the sloppy looking bag could actually be the stout performer of the two !!! If they had looked identical (branded or unbranded), I may not have raised concerns. I would have felt I overpaid for Suncore bags at worst... The top plate (with air fitting) is metal...and the lower part IS plastic. I was unaware that the base of the Arnott's and the OEM's were metal (where the bolt threads in on the bottom....). I haven't had the OEM's out in a while so I couldn't remember.
If you take those pictures and blow them up...you will see a very uniform crimp process on the upper band of the Aerosus branded bag. The un-branded one has a deep crimp on one part and shadows of the process in random places around it's circumference. Now - if I were to ship one of my clients a hose assembly that had a fitting crimped on in a manner that provided the same pattern as that un-branded bag, those assemblies would be written up for non-conformance and be shipped back or scrapped ASAP and would NOT be used. It's simply reflective of poor processes and there isn't a salesperson good enough to convince my customers otherwise nor would want a salesperson to ever try to do so. There is no Aerosus part number on the un-branded bag...no stenciling....and questionable construction. So perception is reality and it raises concerns. Would I notice the difference in a so-called "sport" bag on once side and a "touring" bag on the other...? Who knows, I would rather have some validation at consistency regardless whether physical (process similarities), aesthetic (branding - labeling), or supported by actual data. Not..."trust me..." People trust us in what we provide....but we build that trust by proving it with robust control processes and data.

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shit...it's time for a drink

[adm750]

basically was told "trust us...." again after I advised them last Friday that I was apprehensive about their reply. I guess I'm just going to chalk it up as "taking one for the team...." here and install them. I had a perfect weekend to get them installed too but held off awaiting a satisfactory (in my mind....) resolution. So...moving on....I will get them installed by the weekend and let the forum know what happened. I thought about starting a thread on this but heck...I have no proof of what is really what so it's all conjecture and assumptions tainted with a bit of buyer's remorse at this point. I don't want to go "bashing", and these bags may be perfectly fine....I'm just a bit disappointed in how it all played out. I was hoping to share a very positive experience with the forum which may have given "sport" owners an alternative solution when it comes time for air spring replacement. I'll post after the install....

[adm750]

Well... this will give you an idea of how my day went yesterday....
Fitted right side air spring with no difficulty....
IMG_20170128_111340323.jpg

lowered the car and proceeded with the left side. I used the car's jack for the right side and I pre-staged my small floor jack on the left side as you can't slide one under the car with no air in the bags. I raised the left side just enough to get the wheel off, then I slid that assembly under the rear bumper as an extra precaution. I could use my shortest jackstand when replacing the right side, but with no air in suspension and the odd angle now, there wasn't enough height to get the jack stand seated properly under the left side. No biggie...I have everything free up top and all I need to do is pull the lower 13mm bolt and swap in the new spring. This still isn't sitting well with me not having a jack stand under the car...and about the time i'm contemplating how to deal with this, I hear a large pop and the chassis drops. The left side jackpad has torn from the rocker and the car dropped onto the jack head driving it upwards into the underside of the left rear door sill. Man...I'm stuck. I can't lower the car and reposition the jack as the rear bumper is sitting on the tire and there is no structure there. It's trying to force the bumper upwards. The car keeps sinking. Fortunately my neighbor is home and he comes downs with his floor jack. We get the car raised, and survey the damage. Left rear door is no where close to being able to close as the door sill has been blown upwards and outwards. Some wood blocks, a dead-blow hammer, and a few uncontrolled emotions later I get it shaped to where I can get the sill plate down and the door closed. what a shit day....the rubber tie down block (jack pad) is still attached the chunk of metal inside the rocker. I've never had an issue on this car with the rockers and I just swapped my snows out a little while ago with no issues or indications of an issue then. Totally caught me off guard. (unlike the right rear jack pad on my wife's '97 which is rotted due to rust so I use a small board on top of my floor jack to distribute the load when I need to lift her car...)
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The good news is that no one got hurt....and after replacing that left side bag (which was another story as the air fitting would not clip on - this was the suspect bag in my earlier posts) the car is sitting level this morning with no loss of ride height after repairs.
old bag...
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I don't remember hitting that.....(((bird feather -- wtf !!!???)))
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[geargrinder]

Oh man that sucks. So glad nobody got hurt. Theres a reason they call factory jacks "widowmakers". I keep a Jeep factory jack around as an extra utility jack but it's a bottle jack style and far more stable and reliable than the scissors type - I avoid those if at all possible....

I'm not sure why you felt you had to lower the car before jacking? i think most everyone jacks the car , gets it on proper stands, then deflates the bags? (Or does same on a lift basically...) glad the fix seems to be working at least!!!