83 bmw 320i how to change the clutch

[Javidf]

Please see my detailed response to your other post below. I should have said, "above" not below.

[320iAman]

As too the clutch Kit, Luk Clutch Kit 03-002 is a good choice,, been using it for years,, Sachs KF137-02 will fit too, about the same price.

Randy

[tlapham]

I agree, sounds like slave cylinder leaking into transmission. at the point of failure did you completely run out of fluid?
Changing the slave cylinder while transmission installed is pretty much the only way to do it, but it is difficult, and the cylinder must be first bled on the bench, then the entire line and all bled again after attaching the hose with the slave cylinder upsidedown and not yet installed to the transmission. after that you're good to go. hard part is just getting all the air out.

[Javidf]

My reply to tlpham did not get posted here. So here again.
To answer your question, tlpham, I did not see much loss of fluid in the reservoir. It does need topping up periodically. So, does that change your view about the problem I am having? Can slave cylinder go bad even if there appear to be fluid in the reservoir? Could it be that the clutch need just bleeding? Unless the clutch itself has gone bad. Most posts here seem to opine that the loss of pressure in the clutch pad has nothing to do with the clutch, even if it is bad.

[epmedia]

Thanks for your responses, all. You guys are so kind. The car has been driving when it is in gear except the slippage I talked about. Loses speed on a hilly road. At least, It has been engaging gears until clutch pedal thing happened a couple days ago.it is just that in the first and second gear, it has been slipping somewhat for sometime and I could also notice that the speed does not rise in proportion to the rpm. When it is cold, there is no slippage. But only for a while. After I have driven a mile or two and start off from a traffic light, that I start noticing the slippage and slow take off. But in 3rd gear on , it picks up speed.

Let me elaborate further what happened a couple of days back when I was driving. while driving when I put the foot on clutch pedal to change gear, there was no pressure/firmness (which was there previously) and it went all the way down to the floor and when I tried to change gear, nothing happened. So, I could not drive. The Clutch pedal does come back up all the way. it does not stay on the floor. So, that's not the issue. Because there is no firmness/pressure, it does not engage gears. Please let me know if it gives you a better idea of what could possibly be the cause.

Ideally, I should replace the clutch but for now if it could at least engage gears and drive even with the slippage, that would be nice.

I don't have any ideas to help with clutch slippage, except maybe a steam bath to help clean and maybe swell the clutch disk a tiny bit - this could maybe give the clutch a couple/few more miles of use... You'd have to fix the clutch hydraulics first though (to spread the parts apart for best cleaning results)... !!!

Seriousely though - To remedy the symptoms as described, requires fixing the leaky clutch hydraulics AND clutch(kit) replacement (may need other stuff done in there too).

[Javidf]

Thanks Robert and okieflats. I too feel the clutch need replacing. Just was wondering if I could go a bit longer without having to do so. That is only possible if I could bring the pressure/firmness back in the clutch pedal as without any pressure, it wont engage any gears. I am going to call around to see how much would it cost to replace the clutch.

As to the slippage, ( ie. Revs higher than acceleration speed) that happens only in the first and second gear and only when the car is warm and I engage in first/2nd gear in a street driving, say, after the traffic light. In 3rd and 4th, I have not noticed any slippage.

[tlapham]

I don't think you will have to replace the clutch. once the old fluid dries out for a few days of sitting, and a little use after replacing the slave cylinder, you should be ok. Just drive it like a grandma for the first 50 miles.

You can also remove the lower transmission end cover that will expose the clutch pads. you can verify wether or not your clutch is worn out.

[epmedia]

Thanks Robert and okieflats. I too feel the clutch need replacing. Just was wondering if I could go a bit longer without having to do so. That is only possible if I could bring the pressure/firmness back in the clutch pedal as without any pressure, it wont engage any gears. I am going to call around to see how much would it cost to replace the clutch.

As to the slippage, ( ie. Revs higher than acceleration speed) that happens only in the first and second gear and only when the car is warm and I engage in first/2nd gear in a street driving, say, after the traffic light. In 3rd and 4th, I have not noticed any slippage.

With the transmission in 1st or 2nd gear, can the engine move the car on the road, up a hill, today?

[Javidf]

epmedia, the car no longer drives because it wont engage any gears. It is sitting in my garage. However, to answer your question, the car has been driving in 1st and 2nd gear on the road reasonably Ok with the exception of the slippage that I mentioned in my previous posts. I have driven it on a slight uphill road in 2nd gear although it loses speed while on the hilly section of the road.

I talked to a mechanic I used to go to. He says it is the master cylinder that has failed. I asked him about the slave cylinder. He says master feeds the Slave cylinder and it only needs replacing the Master. What do you think? He says master cylinder part is about $100.

[Javidf]

epmedia, did I understand your question correctly? << With the transmission in 1st or 2nd gear, can the engine move the car...>>

[epmedia]

epmedia, the car no longer drives because it wont engage any gears.

Gear engagement happens inside the transmission. I'll assume you mean to say that the clutch no longer 'engages' the engine to the transmission.

If you mean to say that the the clutch no longer engages the engine to the transmission, then the clutch disk is totally worn out (assuming no shafts or gears on the car are broken). Fix the clutch hydraulics too (assuming the leak under the car is in-fact from the clutch hydraulic system).

I think there's a communication/understanding barrier between you and the mechanic. Possibly me too!

In case there's a misunderstanding: when you push the clutch pedal to the floor - the clutch hydraulic system becomes pressurized, not the other way around.

Here's a video on 'how a clutch works':

[Javidf]

epmedia, Thanks for following this up. I am not sure if I am describing it correctly. So, please bear with me. I think I should explain it this way. While driving couple of days back , when I attempted to shift gear (either after a traffic light or while driving) when I put foot on the clutch pedal, it went all the way down to the floor and there was no firmness in the clutch pedal as it was there previously or 10 minutes earlier. I was unable to put the car in gear. The car had to be stopped.

When I said, the clutch was not engaging, I meant to say I was not able to engage/shift gears.

This para from an article I researched, describes my problem. <....Like your brake pedal, your clutch pedal should have a firm feel when you press it. It should offer resistance as you push it toward the floor, and stop shy of the actual floorboard. When you depress the pedal, you should also be able to change gears. However, if your clutch pedal goes all the way to the floor and you can’t change gears, there’s definitely something wrong. The problem will depend on the type of clutch system in your car...> The it goes on to say that for cars with hydrolic clutch, Master Cylinder is the culprit.

https://www.yourmechanic.com/services/clutch-pedal-goes-all-the-way-to-the-floor-inspection

Please let me have your thoughts. Regards, Javid

[Javidf]

Addendum: yesterday, I tested the clutch pad again while sitting in the garage. I put the car key in ignition and without starting the engine, I put my foot on the clutch pedal. Again, there was no firmness in the pedal whatsoever and it went all the way down to the floor.

.....In case there's a misunderstanding: when you push the clutch pedal to the floor - the clutch hydraulic system becomes pressurized, not the other way around.

This "pressure" is whats not happening. As I understand it, if it is pressurized, the clutch pedal should feel firm. The article says, if it is cylinders related, there should be fair amount of loss of fluid. However, the fluid level in my car is still pretty close to the top.

[epmedia]

Javid, lets pretend that if you were to start the engine with your foot off the clutch pedal(and up) and the transmission shifter in 1st gear position, Would the car drive away?

Did you watch and understand the video?

[Javidf]

Robert, at the risk of sounding dumb, I understood some of the things described in video. I will watch it again later.

Before I try the test, I guess I should push the car out of my garage in case it does move? Further, should I first start the engine and then try to put the shifter in first gear without putting the foot on the clutch pad or I should first put it in first gear and then start the engine? It wont move fast if it did move? Thanks for being patient with me, Robert.

[epmedia]

Robert, at the risk of sounding dumb, I understood some of the things described in video. I will watch it again later.

Before I try the test, I guess I should push the car out of my garage in case it does move? Further, should I first start the engine and then try to put the shifter in first gear without putting the foot on the clutch pad or I should first put it in first gear and then start the engine? It wont move fast if it did move? Thanks for being patient with me, Robert.

I said PRETEND. Do not actually do it... I figured you knew your car's behavior enough to be able to just answer the question without actually trying it.

Edit: we have a communication barrier that's forcing me to cease trying to assist. Good luck with it!

[320iAman]

Changing a clutch master, change the slave as well, keep them the same age they are inexpensive, slaves will go out before master does.

As too no clutch pedal pressure, this happens even with good clutch slaves and masters if this system is not bled out right. I cant see the clutch master leaking and this going on the clutch disk,, the slave cylinder yes, a broken seal there will do this.

Randy

[Javidf]

epmedia, thanks for all your input.You need not spend any more time on this. In the past whenever the car was in that situation, it would move a little with a bit of jerk and obviously the engine would not start because it is not in Neutral. Regards.

[Javidf]

320iAman, Thanks. I shall bearthis in mind if cylinders are the culprit here. But I am beginning to wonder if the Transmission has failed. I read an article on Some of the symptoms of failing transmission, such as 1)"hesitation in starting from a stop, 2) "when the engine speeds up or revs, but your car doesn’t accelerate very quickly, or move at all" are couple of symptoms I have been experiencing for sometime. However, shifting gear without any grinding sound was not a problem even up until a couple days back.

[mgleason]

320iAman, Thanks. I shall bearthis in mind if cylinders are the culprit here. But I am beginning to wonder if the Transmission has failed. I read an article on Some of the symptoms of failing transmission, such as 1)"hesitation in starting from a stop, 2) "when the engine speeds up or revs, but your car doesn’t accelerate very quickly, or move at all" are couple of symptoms I have been experiencing for sometime. However, shifting gear without any grinding sound was not a problem even up until a couple days back.

Did you ever figure this out? I think the best way to go about the hydraulics is to try and find the leak, so topping it off with fluid and then having someone actuate the clutch as you go through the related hydraulic lines (remember, from the reservoir, master cylinder, slave. If there are no leaks there then I would suspect something within the actual bellhousing is wrong.