83 bmw 320i how to change the clutch

[audioscience10]

Hello to all,
Starter age unknown might be the original starter from the looks of it though. 1st owner of car took immaculate care of car, 2nd owner .................... treated it bad by peeling the tires and dogging it, and the 3rd ME THE BEST took good care of it and I have had the car since 2007 with 100k on it when I got it. So not sure if its the original or not.....

Thanks for all your help and insight on how to change the starter I sounds very hard. What size wrench is the back bolt/screw that is the pita?

Should be a 17mm nut. My advice if you have access to a welder is to take and weld a post to it when putting it back. Makes things so much easier than trying to get a wrench on it.

[DavidCrevenston]

Thanks for answering back 1st off. So I am guessing to get to that 17mm I will need either a special 17mm wrench or a lot of extensions on a ratchet. Wow that sounds hard to get to and I have not even started on it yet.....

[epmedia]

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece...set-67065.html

image_16124.jpg

[DavidCrevenston]

Wow that is the one tool/extension I don't have/own. Thanks for the helpful info and where to get it at. I really appreciate all of your help here and insight on this job for me as I am a novice and learning how to do a job like this.....

[Heretic E21]

Question for you guys. On the spare engine I got, the upper starter nut looks like a nut with a bit of threaded rod welded on and angled towards the firewall. But not in the sense it looks like somebody made it, it looks like an OEM piece.

Kinda like a automotive version of a handle nut. It makes starter install removal way easier anyways.



In the location with the wrench shown.

[Thecatmilton]

This is a good resource where a person cleans out a Bosch starter and solenoid in a step by step manner. I may try repairing my solenoid since I have soldering equipment.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_g...r_-bosch-.html

[Eta power]

I have had my 1983 1.8l engine and clutch apart two times this year and will have to do it again before next RallyCross season, so this is one thing where I really know what I'm talking about.

First off, let's talk about the starter and solenoid. See my thread here: http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112896 Chances are the solenoid is fine and the piston is gunked up and frozen in place. Remove battery cable from battery, remove solenoid, clean, reinstall solenoid, reconnect battery and test. It is held in place with three screws (usually flat head screws on the older cars). The battery cable and heavy wire to the starter motor unbolt easily (be careful not to damage the wires when doing this). Be very careful that the spade terminal (wire is usually black w/yellow stripe) that goes on the solenoid is put back in the same spot.The solenoid has two sets of male spade terminals and one is for use with the older points ignition system. If you hook the wire up wrong the car will not start. Do not ask how I know this...

The clutch lives between the gearbox and the engine. At the very least, you are dropping the exhaust center section, the front of the driveshaft and the center support bearing (beware the 2mm preload when reinstalling the CSB), the slave cylinder (can be unbolted and left to dangle), the starter (will get unbolted, but can be left in place (it will just sit there)), the gearbox, and a few other smaller things that come off quite easily. The flywheel should probably be resurfaced by a competent machine shop, and all eight bolts will have to get replaced. Now is a very, very, very good time to do the flex disc (commonly called the "guibo"), both front shift tower mounts and the rear rubber "buffer". Your selector shaft seal is probably toast (you will be able to tell by the sheer amount of grease buildup on the back of the trans). I have done a ton of work to my car, including building a custom engine wire harness, but I had a shop replace the selector shaft seal after I took the trans out myself.

Enter the last 7 of your car's vin and poke around here, it will help you get acquainted with how things come apart. If you are taking it apart and just don't know, take lots of pictures and google it before taking it apart.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select

Only slight better then the Hayne's is the factory service manual:
https://www.bmwtechinfo.com/repair/main/027en/index.htm

Good luck!

[epmedia]

Question for you guys. On the spare engine I got, the upper starter nut looks like a nut with a bit of threaded rod welded on and angled towards the firewall. But not in the sense it looks like somebody made it, it looks like an OEM piece.

Kinda like a automotive version of a handle nut. It makes starter install removal way easier anyways.

That is pretty slick. It's too bad that the M10 starter motor did not have threaded bolt holes. The later e36 starters began using threaded bolt holes somewhere's around '96? This made it possible to remove the transmission without having to remove the intake manifold

[DavidCrevenston]

Hello to all
I have not had a chance to respond sooner as I've been working doubles to pay for all these parts.

The job is done I don't think I'll do that again as it was very difficult for me and I would not have been able to do it without someone helping me.
With that being said the good news is We not only fixed the clutch We also did the whole job fixing all the seals we also fixed the gearshift slop/play where the bushings get worn away and the stick shift gets loose.
I will try to post some pictures tomorrow or the next day. Again thank you for all your help to each and everyone of you extremely helpful and I appreciate that much.

The clutch job was done right with all the seals being changed flywheel resurfaced and pilot bearing being changed out.

As far as the starter goes that was a nightmare we just changed the solenoid as we couldn't even get the starter out still don't understand how to do it? We had what appeared to be all the bolts out for the starter but it was still rock solid attached to the frame or something so there must've been some more bolts we didn't see and we didn't know how to get to them.
I'm imagining that we would've had to remove the intake manifold to get to the other starter bolts and to even see them correct?

Anyways starter never had a problem everything is good the solenoid fixed the problem just as I said It would.
Again thanks to everyone for all your help and patience with all my many questions.
Remember there is no such thing as a dumb/stupid question; The only thing dumb is the question that you never asked.

I don't even see an option in here for me to add pictures to this I will try when I have my computer I'm using my phone now.
Okay never mind I can't upload the pictures here b/c the picture sizes are all too big sorry.......

[cgifool]

great job!!

Ive done this a few times before and it has yet to be fun. maybe if I did it more often and was more confident of not causing new problems! lol

two large bolts holding the starter on (you needed to remove these to get the transmission out), plus the small bracket on the tail end of it - you did remove that too right?

[DavidCrevenston]

Hello To All,
No I did not remove the starter or the bracket in the back of it as we could not see/or find that back bracket. Based on the picture above (the back bracket is in picture I think) no wonder we could not see or find it as it would have been covered from the middle (intake manifold & other misc parts near there).......
We did remove the 2 starter bolts though in the front as we had too. But again we got lucky and did not need to remove the starter fully as it was not the problem only the solenoid was the problem. Which we replaced with a intermotor brand new one....
Hopefully everything works and we don't need to take it apart or mess with anything in that area again.

[epmedia]

Glad you got it back together. I'm in awe that you were able to replace the solenoid while the starter motor was in-place (so to speak).

For the long run, I hope thread sealer was used on the flywheel bolts. This prevents possible oil seepage past the bolt threads. I'm not sure if thread sealer is 'required' in all cases, but it's always recommended.

[DavidCrevenston]

Yup another quality job done by me and my friend we used a lot of thread locker as we don't plan on doing the job again.
What kind of clutch do you guys use what brand?
How much longer would an OEM BMW clutch last longer then say a Sachs?

The reason I ask this is b/c there was a Sach's in there already and I installed another Sach's clutch again as you saw from my pictures. I would have done a different brand had I have known there was already a SAchs in there......
Oh well I hope this one lasts.......

[Somjuan]

Unless I'm mistaken, they are the OEM clutch manufacturer. If not, my last one had a date of '94 on it, so it saw around ten years of use. Judging by my cracked b pillars, this was not kind usage.

[DavidCrevenston]

Hello,
Thanks for the info on that I believe that Sachs is not the same as a OEM clutch but I could be wrong. I say this b/c of looking around online I did find a OEM clutch at eeuroparts.com but it was too expensive.

[mxl556]

I have changed starters on the E21 a few times- I found that the factory 17mm wrench (I believe its p/n 71111179628) from the toolkit works great to hold the top nut in the back. It is straight and narrow, so it fits.

Max

[DavidCrevenston]

Interesting thanks Max for that tip as I have all the factory tools for the car including the complete took kit in the trunk lid. I did not think of that I will tell you how I did it and it worked quite well. 1st I used a strong magnet stick to hold/lower the nut down and then released the magnet and lined up the nut with the bolt with my finger. Next I used a special size (fat/big) Flathead screwdriver to wedge/hold in the place the nut so it would not move while I tightened the bolt. It was quite difficult and if I did not have a helper then I don't think I could have done it as quick......

Dave

[cgifool]

I've had good luck putting a square of duct tape over a nut, then putting a combination wrench over it - the duct tape makes the wrench hold tight on the nut so it (maybe) doesn't fall off when you start turning the bolt.

[DavidCrevenston]

Very interesting technique did not think of that one thanks for the heads up.....
Sounds like that would work well.

[Javidf]

Hello friends! I am having clutch hydrolic related issue on my 1981 e21car and would really appreciate as much feedback as possible that might help resolving this issue even if it is temporarily.

The clutch has been slipping a bit in the first and second gear but I managed to keep driving. Just avoiding the replacement! However, yesterday, while driving, I put my foot on the clutch pedal and it went all the way to the floor ( without any pressure or firmness and I could not engage any gears at all. Did some reading online. Some say, it is hydrolic pressure related ..meaning might need replacing clutch master/Slave cylinder. While some say, bleeding the clutch might resolve the issue, yet others say replacing the clutch etc. The fluid level in the reservoir does need topping up from time to time. I do see some leaks on the garage floor. Can the master/slave cylinder fail by itself? Also could one of the reasons for clutch slippage be if master cylinder leaking into the bellhousing?


Also like to know if replacing clutch cylinder is less cumbersome and done without having to take the transmission out?
This evening, I also put the foot on the clutch peddle without the engine running. Again, it went all the way down to the floor without any pressure if it throws any light on this issue. I would really appreciate everybody's thoughts. I just want to keep it working again even for a short while so that I could drive around to couple of dealerships and look for other cars... may be part exchange this one without having to spend time and money on the clutch replacement, if possible. Thanks all.

[epmedia]

Hello friends! I am having clutch hydrolic related issue on my 1981 e21car and would really appreciate as much feedback as possible that might help resolving this issue even if it is temporarily.

The clutch has been slipping a bit in the first and second gear but I managed to keep driving. Just avoiding the replacement! However, yesterday, while driving, I put my foot on the clutch pedal and it went all the way to the floor ( without any pressure or firmness and I could not engage any gears at all. Did some reading online. Some say, it is hydrolic pressure related ..meaning might need replacing clutch master/Slave cylinder. While some say, bleeding the clutch might resolve the issue, yet others say replacing the clutch etc. The fluid level in the reservoir does need topping up from time to time. I do see some leaks on the garage floor. Can the master/slave cylinder fail by itself? Also could one of the reasons for clutch slippage be if master cylinder leaking into the bellhousing?

Also like to know if replacing clutch cylinder is less cumbersome and done without having to take the transmission out?
This evening, I also put the foot on the clutch peddle without the engine running. Again, it went all the way down to the floor without any pressure if it throws any light on this issue. I would really appreciate everybody's thoughts. I just want to keep it working again even for a short while so that I could drive around to couple of dealerships and look for other cars... may be part exchange this one without having to spend time and money on the clutch replacement, if possible. Thanks all.

It's possible for some clutch hydraulic fluid (brake fluid) to get on the clutch disk and make the clutch slip. Same from engine oil if there's a leak at the rear seal, or seeping flywheel bolts.

Clutch pedal going to the floor with very little effort (and sometimes not returning from the floor), can be caused from either bad clutch hydraulics or worn clutch disk/pressure plate. It's possible your clutch has both problems... Fluid leak (air in system), and the clutch slipping (worn-out or contaminated).

Can the car drive when it's in gear, or does the clutch slip too much to drive the car? (I think you already answered this, I'm just double checking)

[DavidCrevenston]

Well hello there javidf first and foremost.

My name is David I believe I started this post in the first place and glad you’re here I’m glad to see it is still alive as it’s has been a great while for me to be on here.

In regards to your questions..... I can only speak for my problem my friend which was as follows: my problem was the (clutch slave cylinder) which was causing the clutch pedal to press down to the floor and not come back up all the way.

I would say the person above me (epmedia sorry if I got your name wrong in advance) hit the head on the nail meaning: first try to drive the car in 3rd gear particularly third gear and see if it will drive without the clutch slipping while driving in 3rd gear.

After you have confirmed the above trying to drive in third gear then I would suggest taking a look at the slave cylinder as that was my problem and I would say I would point to that as at least one of the culprits to one of your problems.

I hope that helps my friend I’m not an expert but that’s my insight and advice to you and at least my answer back to you. I hope that helped you and I hope you get the problem(s) fixed my friend.

That’s pretty good I’m answering you seeing that this thread is over seven years old and I have not been on here in years........

Correction I making now to my response/post: I believe I got this thread/post mixed up with another one that I did over seven years ago.
I don’t want to miss speak as I am Not sure how old this post is FYI.......

Best regards

Hello friends! I am having clutch hydrolic related issue on my 1981 e21car and would really appreciate as much feedback as possible that might help resolving this issue even if it is temporarily.

The clutch has been slipping a bit in the first and second gear but I managed to keep driving. Just avoiding the replacement! However, yesterday, while driving, I put my foot on the clutch pedal and it went all the way to the floor ( without any pressure or firmness and I could not engage any gears at all. Did some reading online. Some say, it is hydrolic pressure related ..meaning might need replacing clutch master/Slave cylinder. While some say, bleeding the clutch might resolve the issue, yet others say replacing the clutch etc. The fluid level in the reservoir does need topping up from time to time. I do see some leaks on the garage floor. Can the master/slave cylinder fail by itself? Also could one of the reasons for clutch slippage be if master cylinder leaking into the bellhousing?


Also like to know if replacing clutch cylinder is less cumbersome and done without having to take the transmission out?
This evening, I also put the foot on the clutch peddle without the engine running. Again, it went all the way down to the floor without any pressure if it throws any light on this issue. I would really appreciate everybody's thoughts. I just want to keep it working again even for a short while so that I could drive around to couple of dealerships and look for other cars... may be part exchange this one without having to spend time and money on the clutch replacement, if possible. Thanks all.

[epmedia]

Here Javid, I've been trying to get this picture to you...

click to enlarge.
search-bfc.png

That's the 'advanced' search page: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...?search_type=1

[Javidf]

Thanks for your responses, all. You guys are so kind. The car has been driving when it is in gear except the slippage I talked about. Loses speed on a hilly road. At least, It has been engaging gears until clutch pedal thing happened a couple days ago.it is just that in the first and second gear, it has been slipping somewhat for sometime and I could also notice that the speed does not rise in proportion to the rpm. When it is cold, there is no slippage. But only for a while. After I have driven a mile or two and start off from a traffic light, that I start noticing the slippage and slow take off. But in 3rd gear on , it picks up speed.

Let me elaborate further what happened a couple of days back when I was driving. while driving when I put the foot on clutch pedal to change gear, there was no pressure/firmness (which was there previously) and it went all the way down to the floor and when I tried to change gear, nothing happened. So, I could not drive. The Clutch pedal does come back up all the way. it does not stay on the floor. So, that's not the issue. Because there is no firmness/pressure, it does not engage gears. Please let me know if it gives you a better idea of what could possibly be the cause.

Ideally, I should replace the clutch but for now if it could at least engage gears and drive even with the slippage, that would be nice.

[Javidf]

Thank you for the picture, Okieflats. I am still trying to figure out where is the slave cylinder!! I am so useless when it comes to auto mechanics. But seems like, the replacement would not entail removal of the transmission etc. So, it should be relatively an easy job?