Member
Hello Wanted to know if anyone on here can tell me how difficult it is to change the entire clutch on my 83 320i? I would like to know what fluids (if any I will need for job), Does the starter need to come off, Does the flywheel need to be replaced or can it be machined? Where do you recommend to get instructions on how to change the clutch? I have the Haynes manual but it is no good please advise where I can find the best instructions on how to change the clutch? Thanks for your help in advance and sorry if this is posted in the wrong section........
E21 Addict
The clutch is a good weekend job, for most people's abilities and tool selection, the simplest way is to put the car on jackstands, disconnect driveshaft and clutch hydraulic line, pull the transmission, unbolt clutch pressure plate, it all comes off. install in reverse order.
If your flywheel wasnt giving you problems and appears to be in good shape, dont bother machining it unless you have time and money to take it out and get it done for good measure.
Best to you have someone to help you put the transmission back into place. you can lift it up with a jack, then line it up into place. or bench press it into place if you are strong.
Ensure your new clutch kit comes with an alignment tool.
Member
Far as I'm aware - The Haynes manual is fine for all years *regarding transmission/clutch removal/install; there may be a couple small differences, but the major stuff is the same. You have to remove the bolts for the starter motor, but you don't need to take the starter out.
Last edited by epmedia; 12-11-2016 at 12:44 AM.
Tbd
trust the rust
Is there a engine bracket on the starter like on the m20?Originally Posted by epmedia
Member
It is not fine for all years. Lots of important info is missing. Any other manual would be better.
trust the rust
a phone with a data plan has been my favorite repair manual so far
Member
If you are not sure if you need to remove the starter and if you think you may need fluids for the clutch job, I'd recommend having someone do it.
But if you decide to do it, get a good manual and proper tools.
Something to watch out for: make sure you unscrew all the bolts and remove the flywheel cover before dropping the transmission. This cover has one of the bolts hidden (I do not remember how many bolts it has, but that one that is hidden is a small one that is holding one of the corners of the cover) and is easily broken if not removed before you drop the transmission. Otherwise it would get bent and damaged.
Also, do yourself a favor and get a transmission jack, it makes life much easier, especially if working on that car that is on the jack stands.
And the last I checked, clutch alignment tool does not come with SACHS kit anymore. Flywheel does not need to be touched unless its damaged. Same for the pilot bearing which is a headache to replace. Finally do not forget to replace little plastic pin for the clutch fork and use lithium grease where appropriate.
Max
Member
I meant for the transmission/clutch removal/install...
I edited my first post.
- - - Updated - - -
Yes, all e21s have the support bracket(s) for the starter motor.
For the OP - these brackets are not required to be removed for transmission removal/installation.
Last edited by epmedia; 12-11-2016 at 12:43 AM.
Tbd
Member
Hello to all,
1st off thanks for answering back to me....
Here are some ?'s that I came up with.....
If I buy a new flywheel (instead of maching the old one) will it need to be balanced and is that a good idea?
Will I need to drop the gear box or drain the fluid from that?
Will I need to drain the fluid from the master cylinder (combo for the brakes & clutch)?
Will I need to remove the starter?
Member
New flywheels are typically already balanced, yo u have to verify this with the parts supplier. You would only need a new flywheel if the ring gear is chewed up, or if the clutch friction surface is FOB. Your Haynes manual covers inspection for the flywheel, but you can please take pics of it (while installed) for us to verify it's condition. As mentioned, get a new pressure plate too (clutch kit).
You don't need to drain gearbox or brake fluids to remove/install the transmission. Note: put some sort of lock-device on the clutch pedal so nobody accidentally pushes on the clutch pedal while the slave is removed.
The starter motor has already been discussed.
Edit: If I seem to be 'snarky', related to using the Haynes manual for transmission/clutch removal, being snarky is not my intention. Ask all the questions you want that may or may not be covered in the Haynes. Review the manual, even at your bedside with a light to help you get familiar with the procedures and inspections.
Last edited by epmedia; 12-11-2016 at 07:17 AM.
Tbd
Member
I would either buy one of those chrome moly 7lb flywheels off ebay or have the flywheel lightened while it was out. Seems like the thing to do while its out ,but thats just me .
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Member
I highly suggest not getting into mods in this thread. Maybe a later thread...
That's just me though
Tbd
Member
Hello,
1st off thanks for answering back and helping with all my ?'s to you so here are a bunch more hope you don't mind....
1st the starter: Can I take the starter (bolts off) & starter out from under the car while I doing this job or do I need to access the starter from above the car?
I ask this because my solenoid is not working so I was thinking to replace just the solenoid and not the starter as there is nothing wrong with the starter its just the solenoid. Please advise if this is a good idea or if I should replace just the solenoid?
Okay below are several of my ?'s that I thought to ask you further sorry if some of my ?'s will repeat something in advance and thanks for taking the time to help answer all of them as I am a novice in this job and will have a helper though.
Do I need to drop the gearbox?
Is it easy to change the solenoid on the starter or is there soldering involved with the thick silver metal wire that I see attached to/from the starter/solenoid?
That's all the ?'s for now BTW FYI: I got the full clutch kit from Sachs from Bavarian auto online and they also sold me a bunch of parts that they said I would need to replace and go along with the job hopefully they gave me everything.
Member
You don't need to open the hydraulic system if you just remove the slave cylinder from the transmission. If you replace the slave, you need to bleed it, just like the brakes. A pressure bleeder is your friend. You start with the rear brakes, then clutch, then front brakes, farthest to nearest to the reservoir.
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Hello Tribri,
1st off thanks for answering back I see you are near me interesting we should get together then to show/see our cars if you like?
Also do you know of any machine shops (for machining the flywheel) that you recommend near Alexandria, va?
Member
Personally, I'd replace the whole starter motor (includes new solenoid). It's not much more expensive if you shop around.
I mentioned earlier that I do not recommend 'mods' for your clutch job, but - there's a couple S14 (88-91 M3) starter motors on clearance at rockauto - verify that they'll take your old starter as a core, or atleast get a partial core value return - be sure to also use their 5% discount code. - BFC link -
The starter motor bolts/nuts are accessed from the top. If the starter solenoid is indeed bad, you have to remove the starter motor to replace the solenoid. I've never tried before, but you may be able to replace the solenoid without completely removing the starter from the engine bay. You would probably need penetrant on the screws that hold the solenoid to the starter housing (because very tight and rust). You don't have to mess with any solder to replace the solenoid.
Do you need to 'drop the gearbox' to do what?
Last edited by epmedia; 12-11-2016 at 11:30 PM.
Tbd
Member
Do I need to drop the gearbox to change the clutch is what I meant to ask you?
Yes just the solenoid is bad not the starter so why the hell would I get both.... I will attempt to replace just the solenoid unless I hear otherwise from you or someone else on here as to why not......?
When you say the starter bolts are accessed from the top please be more specific HOW? Do I need to remove the intake? If not how do I access the bolts for the starter from the top please indulge me......
Member
Replace the starter. It's not easy to access and it would be better to mess with it once. The e30 M3 starter does not cost much more than a solenoid, it's smaller, and more powerful than the old one.
I need to do this too. I have been carrying a crow bar and a hammer around with me for the past few months. I am hoping I can keep it going long enough until I have time to do an M42 swap.
Member
Yes you need to remove the transmission, the clutch is sandwiched in between the pressure plate and the flywheel. Get some service manuals and read up on changing the clutch disk. The new way to lock the motor from pivoting on the motor mounts is too use a bar clamp attached to the cylinder head and the front of the car, it pivots quite easy, so locking in place does not require great clamping force, just sufficient force to balance the motor, if the motor is not locked in place when the transmission brace is removed it will move backwards and hit the firewall or foreward and damage the radiator if lifted high to remove,,not good.
Randy
Last edited by 320iAman; 12-12-2016 at 01:57 AM.
Member
Now is a fine time to reference the engine as an "engine" and the starter motor as a "starter motor" (or just "starter"), because OP is new at this stuff and could use as little confusion as possible
Last edited by epmedia; 12-12-2016 at 02:52 AM.
Tbd
Member
Wow I am impressed with the great knowledge and information you guys are throwing my way and for that I say thank you to all.
I am a novice at this and will have a helper to do the job. With that being said please keep the tips, info, and helpful knowledge coming my way so I can read as much about this job as you guys are willing to throw my way. That way when job time comes I will know what to do and NOT to do.
I will be replacing the solenoid ONLY as there is nothing wrong with my starter.
Can you guys please tell me the best way to reach/remove the starter and is there more then 1 way to access/remove it? What is the easiest best way and is there anything tricky to watch out for?
Member
Disconnect the battery first.
After removing the transmission for clutch replacement; you'll be able to manipulate the engine position to have easier access to remove the starter motor from the engine bay. You probably will still have to remove the air-filter box.
Here's some tid-bit info: - BFC link -
That's all I got, because I'm way more of a 2.0 person.
* How old is the starter motor?
Last edited by epmedia; 12-12-2016 at 08:11 AM.
Tbd
Member
If you don't just have a spare lying around its actually cheaper to buy an entire starter than just the solenoid... Not only that but if you buy new or reman you get the smaller and more powerful starter.
Member
I take that back advance has the entire thing for $99 and solenoid alone for $75. If just doing the solenoid you may be able to do it in the car. You just have 3 flat head screws from the back side of the starter. If you use a ratchet with a driver bit you may be able to reach them.
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Hello to all,
Starter age unknown might be the original starter from the looks of it though. 1st owner of car took immaculate care of car, 2nd owner .................... treated it bad by peeling the tires and dogging it, and the 3rd ME THE BEST took good care of it and I have had the car since 2007 with 100k on it when I got it. So not sure if its the original or not.....
Thanks for all your help and insight on how to change the starter I sounds very hard. What size wrench is the back bolt/screw that is the pita?
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