Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Intermittent/tricky rough idle and run - Ideas?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    8
    My Cars
    96 M3 Coupe, 08 M5 6spd

    Intermittent/tricky rough idle and run - Ideas?

    So this is apparently my first post here. Hello all! But I call upon the expertise of the owners here at Bimmerforums to help me out. My 1996 E36 M3 coupé has a rather tricky malady.

    Here are the symptoms.

    • Intermittently, when cold, significantly rough idle or run through the revs, as though the engine is firing on five out of six cylinders. Sometimes continues on a warm start unchanged from previous behavior, but never occurs freshly on a warm start.
    • Cylinder 1 Misfire code P0301. ONLY ever this code. No others, such as lean (P017x) or otherwise.
    • Once the engine is warm, it seems to run much smoother, though still not quite like a sewing machine, as one would expect of a BMW inline-6.
    • Just this morning, on the way to work, it was running horribly. After ten minutes on the road, at a stop sign, I turned the engine on and off. It went from running as though it was missing a cylinder to buttery smooth. The only thing I changed was an engine kill and restart.


    This is the beast in question:


    When it first occurred, I pulled the spark plug on cylinder 1 and it looked fine. No severe fouling or gap between electrodes. I swapped the coil packs on cylinders 1 and 2, but it had no effect.

    Details on the car and work done on it:
    • 1996 M3 coupe in Boston Green Metallic with Modena interior with manual Vader seats
    • Purchased from Beaufort, SC, it was the previous owner's track car. Now it's mine. That's its intended destiny: track visits to VIR with the Tarheel BMW CCA.
    • Already many track mods: electric radiator fan, Racing Dynamics sway bars, H&R Race springs with Bilstein shocks, solid rear subframe mounts, poly diff mounts, TMS rear lower control arms, poly RTAB bushings, Z3 steering rack, poly front LCA bushings, Ground Control front camber plates, ASC delete, TMS Shark stage 1 tune.
    • Many of the intake hoses, suspension components, etc., were unfortunately worn out when I got the car, so I've been working to replace them.


    I've been chasing this particular issue for a while. At first, after finding some worn out intake components, I thought it was just an intake leak. I found a torn ICV hose and intake boot (ASC has been removed/deleted).

    Torn ICV hose, patched with electrical tape. Seriously.


    Torn Bimmerworld silicone intake boot, also patched with electrical tape:


    I cut out the bad portions of these hoses and connected them, but the car still ran rough. So I completely removed the intake side of the engine...


    I replaced the following:
    • Intake-manifold-to-head gaskets
    • Throttle-body-to-manifold gasket
    • ICV hose (and cleaned the ICV itself using MAF cleaner)
    • ICV-to-manifold gasket
    • All secondary air pump hoses from the intake manifold through to the secondary air pump valve
    • All PCV components, including separator, hoses, and gasket
    • Intake boot, replaced with Mishimoto boot for ASC delete. ASC plug on the boot was filled with an aluminum plug from ECS Tuning.


    Final result:


    Unfortunately, it still runs rough, with the same problem. No other codes. Sometimes it runs fine, sometimes it doesn't; though for a smooth run it seems to "prefer" warmer weather.

    Latest guess: sticking lifter on cylinder 1, since it seems to occur when cold. I'm currently running Redline 15w-50 as the engine oil. I'm going to try an oil change to 10w-40, Redline's recommended weight, to see if it makes a difference. But after this morning's behavior, where restarting the car 'fixed' the issue up through the rest of the drive, I'm wondering if I don't have a dying sensor.

    So any ideas for this niggle? Thanks all!
    Last edited by Eidolon; 12-06-2016 at 11:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Dirty MFin Jersey
    Posts
    1,306
    My Cars
    M3 Buildup
    Best thing you can do is datalog this car. Check fuel trims. Also get your hands on an inpa cable or snap-on, autel, launch system and run the smoothness test to see where you at. Could just need a spark plug or fuel injector rebuild on cyl 1.
    Buy my native installed ISIS ISTA-D/ISTA-P bmw diagnostic laptop. More Info Here!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    8
    My Cars
    96 M3 Coupe, 08 M5 6spd
    Yeah, agreed. That's what I've been thinking is my next step. I think some friends have an AutoEngenuity setup. Not sure it'll work for this car. I'll check around. Thank ya!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    1,917
    My Cars
    99 M3 / 95 325i
    Other thing that can cause intermittent issues is the cam position sensor -- maybe you can pick it up on your scanner.
    -Chris

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    2,947
    My Cars
    98 M3
    Swap your coil pack to another cylinder and see if the misfire follows it.
    CPS is also a common problem, but it often throws its own code.

    - 98 m3, techno/anthrazit cloth, 124k and officially worthless - 89 m3, alpine/black 143k and officially old - 2000 323it, tiag/grey, 169k and officially boring

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    8
    My Cars
    96 M3 Coupe, 08 M5 6spd
    Realized I never updated this! Thanks for more suggestions, fellow addicts.

    I did swap the coils on cylinders 1 and 2. It could be the CMPS or CKPS, but I'm not getting a unique code for them. It only ever throws a P0301.

    Next thing on my list is to go ahead and throw some spark plugs at it. I have no idea how old the plugs in it are, and plugs are cheap. I plan to buy NGKs.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    1,222
    My Cars
    98M3/4/5 SpeedMiata
    This sounds kind of similar to a problem of my own I created on my Miata, and it's a bit of a long-shot. But I re-did the intake and with the after-market system it was possible to install the MAF backwards (which is impossible with the stock set-up). And guess what this dummy did? It made the car run poorly under moderate acceleration, like it had a miss. But it didn't throw a code. Just something easy to check.
    Current:
    98 M3/4/5 Alpine/Magma
    05 MazdaSpeed Miata

    Sold:

    00 Honda VFR
    99 528iT M/T
    98 M3/4/5 Arctic/Dove
    94 R-package Miata
    89 Honda NT650

    87 325is turned SpecE30

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    I just had the same issue with cylinder 5 on my car. It was a bad coil. First thing I did was replace all the plugs since they needed it anyways. Then I swapped coils, the issue moved, and the bad coil was isolated and replaced.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    8
    My Cars
    96 M3 Coupe, 08 M5 6spd
    Alright, so updating this... I have replaced the plugs with NGK BKR6Es. Didn't fix it. I have since then taken it to two separate mechanics, including one of the better shops in the Raleigh area (Bimmer Performance Center, a great shop that I cannot praise enough). Thus far, I still don't have a diagnosis! Whatever the bug, it's a tricky one. Both shops swapped injectors and coils. First shop boroscoped the cylinders. BPC performed a leakdown. Every test came back clean. Worse yet, the car would then run fine after the debug, making it hard to continue chasing down.

    So I still don't have the problem clearly nailed down! When the car decides it wants to run, it runs like a top, though. I ran it at my first Tarheel BMW CCA HPDE at VIR the first weekend of this month. God, what a car. With the suspension mods and Nitto tires, it was positively sublime.

Similar Threads

  1. E36 318ti compact rough idle and running rich
    By 8879gw in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-31-2013, 07:46 AM
  2. rough idle and engine run on and not starting
    By adz2516 in forum 1999 - 2006 (E46)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-04-2012, 11:01 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-20-2010, 11:25 AM
  4. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-14-2009, 07:45 PM
  5. 03 325i Rough Idle and Running
    By RLC588 in forum General BMW and Automotive Discussion sponsored by Intercity Lines
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-15-2008, 09:43 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •