1990 850i E31 Fog/Signal Schematic? Control unit lock sensor

[ElectroVeeDub]

A client of mine (I'm a technician) owns a 1990 BMW 850i E31 MK Motorsports Edition V12 5.0L. I know some peoples initial reaction is "theres no such thing as a 1990 850i...". Trust me, there is... thats why I need some help finding a wiring schematic for the front signal/fog lights. This car is a Japanese import, and from what I hear the 850i's weren't available in North America until 1991, and thats why I can never find any info on them. It might have the same diagrams as a 1991 NA model perhaps?

The front spoiler (fiberglass) had an unfortunate encounter with a parking pylon. I've replaced the signal light assemblies, and the spoiler has been repaired and is being painted as we speak... but the silly fog lights wont light up, and one of the harness's located directly on the light housing has been previously repaired with various butt connectors and epoxy. Its a mess, and I have to rebuild that section of the harness. This is the second time the front spoiler has been replaced in this car's lifetime. There's a mystery wire that was loose and I have no idea what its for.

Does anybody have a schematic for the front signal/fog lights?

Does anybody have a clue what the resale value of this car is approximately (100,000kms, pristine condition except spoiler, MK Motorsports package, JDM import)?

[bmwdirtracer]

Here are factory ETMs for a '91. I doubt there's a bunch of difference for the earliest '90, but the Japan market might give a different few anomalies. (Perhaps Shogun can help with that?):

http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/19...g%20Manual.pdf

What's it worth? Well, whatever you can get someone to pay for it. You need to understand that anything you buy for this car will cost an arm and a leg. Hell, a set of spark plug wires will cost well over five hundred dollars. Guess what a hydroboost unit costs?

The car has the bleeding edge of technology, for it's era....but zero diagnostics for those systems, and BMW had zero experience with many of the systems at that early date. Personally, as pretty as the car is, I wouldn't pay $1000 for a '90 JDM 850. It's a first-year of a model, it's heavy, it's not fast, it's got tons and tons of ultra expensive stuff that breaks, no room to work on anything (go ahead, change the starter).

I'd pay five times more, for an '89 635, than I would for a '90 850.

I've sent a note to Shogun, maybe he'll look in on your thread -- he'll likely appreciate the car more than I.

[shogun]

I also only have the ETM for E31 from North American market http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e31/850 Ci for the European market and Japan started 07/1989. Engine is basically the same as for the M70 E32 pre-facelift.
As for the differences: most Japan spec cars from BMW came without rear foglights = the LKM as on the E32 had one relay less, the rear wire loom different and the foglight switch, all had a temperature sensor at the end of the cat, on the E32 the relay for this is under rear seat driver side and when the cat get's glowing hot, one will get an alarm in the check control. But this has no influence on the engine like limpmode. Just a warning. Then a beeper warns in reverse gear etc pp.
In the E31 forum here some people have JDM 850 and they might be able to help you more. Especially Wuffer is the expert for this. I will give him a note if he can help out.

I only have a 1990 E32 Japan spec wiring diagram, but that will not help you, as all is in Japanese language, and if that E31 850 is a Japan spec car, there are Japanese language wiring diagrams available in Japan. Sometimes they are sold in the Japanese auctions. Here is one for a 1990 850, Japanese language, min offer about $200 http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d210165641

[Wuffer]

Contact me at wuffer at shaw dot ca and I can help you out. I am in Langley BC
Cheers,
Tom

[ElectroVeeDub]

Thanks for the help Gentlemen! As a technician, I'm privately employed by a few small construction companies in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. They don't have enough work to warrant hiring a full time technician individually, but between all 3 companies I'm swamped with lots of broken Ford F-150's. I obviously don't have access to Mitchell on Demand, so I've found that community members on various forums make a good substitute, and offer some pretty cool knowledge and tricks. No mechanic knows everything!

I have a background as a VW/Audi technician, but I personally find this 850i refreshing to work on. BMW was rather thoughtful when designing the car. For example I can remove the radiator and fan shroud without removing the fan. The lower control arms are a breeze. And by todays standards, I dont find the technology in it to be overwhelming (but I wish I didn't get rid of my old OBD1 scanner). I like the car. Its a neat Sunday driver for car meets. It's obviously for enthusiasts with a mechanical background however. It aint no Honda.

From what I've seen the car is commanding from $7000 to $30,000 US depending on mileage and condition. This particular car is owned by the owner of the company I mentioned above, and he only paid $10,000 for it. It only has 100,000kms on it (about 64,000 miles if im not mistaken?), and JDM MK Motorsport 850i's in excellent condition are commanding a decent price in the Canadian and American economies. They keep appreciating in price. So my client can justify paying me to get the car into a showroom state of condition.

But I got another brain teaser for ya... anybody got a diagram of the left-rear fusebox in the trunk? I think there's a relay missing, and the AC compressor was acting up. New one is being delivered...

[shogun]

See E31 DIY
HowTo-> BMW E31 All Models - Fuse and Relay Locator http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/fo...-and-DIY-Fixes

As for the AC compressor, note that the M70 AC compressor is a bit special, it has a lock sensor.
BMW TSB B64 11 92 (3569) E31 850, E32 750 AC compressor shut down
Situation: AC compressor shuts down during heavy rain, or when driving thru deep standing water. The customer complaint is loss of cooling. The condition disappears when engine is stopped and restarted.
Cause: The AC compressor clutch is disengaged by the slip monitoring function of the AC lock sensor control module. This module continiously monitors the engine speed and compares this to the AC compressor speed. The magnetic clutch of the compressor is automatically disengaged by the lock sensor module if the amount of slip exceeds 30%. The intent of this system is to prevent broken v-belt or reduced engine cooling if the AC compressor locks up. If the vehicle is driven in heavy rain or if standing water is splashed up into the engine compartment belt area, the v-belt and pulley may get wet enough to cause slippage in excess of 30%. The lock sensor control module perceives this as possible AC compressor lock up and opens the clutch circuit to prevent damage. The control module will remain in this state with the compressor clutch deactivated until the ignition is turned off and back on, clearing the condition.

Note: in addition to slip monitoring, an engine coolant temperature check has been incorporated into the lock sensor module on E32 vehicles produced since 09/1989, and E31 vehicles since the start of production. If engine coolant temperature rises above 240 degrees F., the AC compressor clutch is pulsed off at regular intervals to reduce engine load. If the coolant temperature rises above 250 degrees F., the clutch is switched off completely. As of 09/1992 production the slip monitoring function of the AC lock sensor module will be dropped on both E31 and E32 models.

Solution: If a customer complaint of AC cooling loss is received, the following items should be checked before proceeding with this repair:
-AC compressor belt tension adjusted to specification
-No oil leaks have contaminated the AC compressor belt, causing slip
-AC system pressure is within specificaion, not overloading compressor and belt.

If the above checks do not isolate the source of the slippage, proceed with the following repair. The remedy for this siwation varies with the model and production date of the vehicle. Refer to the appropriate ETM for diagrams showing connector, pin and control module locations.

750iL vehicles from the start of production thru 08/1989
Remove the lock sensor control module from the from the left hand side of the driver's footwell. The unit has 2 connectors, 4-pin and 5-pin and is located in the recesss of behind the kick panel
Unplug the connectors X77 and X80 from the lock sensor control module body.
Remove pin 1 of connector X77 and pin 3 of connector X80 using a perminals removing tool.
Cut off the terminals and connect the loose wires with an insulated crimp connector. Shrink tubing may also be necessary to prvide proper insulation.
Tape or tie-wrap the loose wires with the other harness wires.
Plug the connectors back into the control module, reinstall the control module and reinstall the kick panel trim.


E32 750iL produced from 09/1989 thru 08/1991:
Remove the lock sensor control module from the left hand side of the driver's footwell, the unit also has 2 connectors, 4-pin and 5-pin.
Replace the lock sensor control module with p/n 61352233107 . This replacement module does not contain the slip monitoring function.
Reconnect the electrical connectors and install control module and kick panel trim.


E31 from start of production thru 08/1992:
E32 750iL vehicles produced from 09/1991 thru 08/1992:

Remove lock sensor control module from left side of driver's footwell. The unit has 1 connector with 10 pins and is locacted in the recess behind the kick panel.
Replace the lock sensor control module with p/n 61358360039 , this replacement module does not contain the slip monitoring function.
Reconnect and install....

Parts information:
lock sensor module 61358360039 10-pin type E31 from start thru 08/1992, E32 from 09/1991 thru 08/1992.

lock sensor module 61352233107 , 9-pin type, E32 from 09/1989 thru 08/1991

Warrantee status: parts and labour reimbursable. Defect code: 64 52 07 12 00

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ht=lock+sensor
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ht=lock+sensor

Here we fixed the lock sensor problem in Japan by eliminating the lock sensor http://e32b12.blogspot.jp/search/label/Lock%20Sensor

More info I posted here http://bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1221130

[ElectroVeeDub]

Thanks for the solid info Shogun

I don't suppose by chance you got any tricks for replacing the O2 sensors on this car? It's starting to look like I have to drop the exhaust system just to access them (the O2 socket wont fit)? Or can they be accessed underneath the center console where the e-brake is inside the car?

[shogun]

Quick search in the E31 forum...
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ensor-for-850i
On the E32 750 we usually take the exhaust at rear and in the middle out of the rubber hangers and let it drop at bit down, that is enough to get onto the O2 sensors as shown here http://infinitier.ddo.jp/e32/page/ma...inte_50707.htm
Important!: before you start, mark the wiring looms coming from the engine bay for the O2 sensors with right and left side, you would not be the first one who connects wrong and mixes up what was left and right, then the engine runs like crap.

http://workshop-manuals.com/bmw/8_se...k_e31_e32_m70/

Here this site you should bookmark http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e31/

[ElectroVeeDub]

My client purchased an aftermarket DVD player to replace the original radio, and an after market faux-walnut interior trim package to be applied to the dash, centre console, and door cards...

Whats your opinion on these modifications? Will they negatively affect the value of the car? We think we can sell this car for about $25,000 on the Canadian market...

[shogun]

That depends on the buyer. I know people which would not buy such a car when there are modifications done which are not original. Others do not care.
But in general: the older the cars are, best value is original. And complete with all accessories like the glovebox light and the blue cleaning cloth in the tool box and all tools, which are NLA. People are paying crazy amounts for these NLA parts. A blue cleaning cloth goes on Ebay sometimes for more than $100 if original, "re-made" ones are sold also.

[bmwdirtracer]

I was going to stay out of this, because I wanted to let the true aficionados of the E31 dominate , where your special car is concerned.

But here's my 2 cents, because I have no restraint:

Something special, like Wuffer's massively flared car, makes it's own rules: I'd pay good money for very special, well done mods like that.

But "faux-wood"....on, HELL NO! Putting stickers that imitate wood, on this special, elegant car is Criminal. This car exudes CLASS; that must NOT be betrayed.

(No, it's not MY favorite BMW, but it's damned sure a masterpiece, whose splendor must always be taken into account. Fake wood stickers are déclassé, on such a car.

[ElectroVeeDub]

So... I'm about to install the AC compressor, and the new compressor is missing that lock sensor on the bottom of the compressor housing compared to the old one. The two compressors are identical except for this sensor.

My client is instructing me to install it regardless because the new compressor was difficult to find. Will the AC function properly? Do I have to delete the lock module? Any tips ?

- - - Updated - - -

I've been doing some research on the forums here (Thanks to Shogun again)... and I have the lock sensor module removed.

Part#61.35-1392410

Isn't that the newer module part number from 1992 and up?

Should I replace the module, or try out the jumper wire trick Shogun's write ups mention?

[shogun]

61351392410
CONTROL UNIT LOCK-SENSOR
From:12/01/1989To:06/09/1995 (ENDED)Weight:0.092 kgPrice:$152.53
Superseded by:

61358360039 (09/01/1992 — ), Exchangeable retrospectively
Supersedes:
61351390899 (10/01/1989 — ), Exchangeable retrospectively61351388718 (02/01/1988 — 06/28/1990), Exchangeable retrospectively61351382883 (06/01/1987 — 06/09/1989)
Part 61351392410 was found on the following vehicles:
7' E32   (11/1986 — 03/1994)
8' E31   (07/1989 — 10/1996)
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partxref?q=61351392410
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...410&series=E31

[ElectroVeeDub]

Ok, Im a bit confused here. Is the lock sensor module with the part#61.35-1392410 one of the updated modules that ignores the signal from the lock sensor on the AC compressor?

If not, does anybody have a picture of where I solder in the jumper wire to bypass that function?

[IMG][/IMG]

Where is this located? See above picture.

- - - Updated - - -

Is this the relay in question from the above diagram? Where my finger points to?

[shogun]

I will move a copy of this thread to the E31 forum, there are probably some people which already have done it on an E31 and can help you

[ElectroVeeDub]

Does anybody know how to bypass/delete the lockout sensor feed in the lockout sensor module on a 1990 J-SPEC BMW 850i E31 with a M70 V12 5.0L engine in it? According to Shogun's and other helpful members links, I can simply accomplish this task by soldering a jumper wire from pin#1 to pin#3 inside the sensor lockout module? Am I mistaken? Do you have pictures showing EXACTLY where I should solder this jumper wire?? The diagrams and links above are too vague! I'm lost!

See the above posts. Has anybody accomplished installing an AC compressor WITHOUT a lockout sensor on such a car before without replacing the old lockout sensor module Part#61.35-1392410 with the newer updated lockout sensor module Part#61.35-8360039? Can this module be bypassed and/or modified (with the jumper wire trick mentioned above) without purchasing the updated module?


I hate to be a pest, but I have a customer awaiting your insight

[wolfebrian2120]

I have done the AC compressor on my 91. Couldn't get a new R12 compressor and ended up putting in a DENSO unit. I replaced my lock unit with the updated module from that later cars. Wuffer was kind enough to send me the bmw Technical Service Bulletin detailing the solution. Its TSB 64 11 92 (3569). I detailed my experience in this thread.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...or-91-E31-850i

[Wuffer]

Something special, like Wuffer's massively flared car, makes it's own rules: I'd pay good money for very special, well done mods like that.

Ummm... my car is not massively flared - its box stock body panels - even the fender lips haven't been rolled beyond stock. Any mods to my car are "period correct".

- - - Updated - - -

@ElectroVeeDub - as I posted on 11/28 above contact me and I can offer you some assistance on fog lights and value... wuffer at shaw dot ca

[ElectroVeeDub]

Thanks Wuffer! I'll be in touch.

But the AC compressor has become a priority because the lockout sensor is holding up progress on this car. Notice the above links that Shogun posted? They describe a method to alter the older lockout sensor modules by soldering a jumper wire between pin 1 and pin 3 inside the module itself. I was wondering where inside the module I do this? On the PCB at the relay contacts?

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...A-C-compressor

Mark in SBA stated in the above linked thread: "Simply jumper pins 3 to 5 together on the A26 lock sensor in the driver's footwell, bypassing the lock logic. Reference: ETM 6450.0-13."

So which is it? Pins 1 and 3? Or pins 3 and 5?

I'd hate to make a mistake, destroy the module, and then my customer has to spend another $300 for a new module. He's still recovering from the sticker shock when he bought the AC compressor...

Update:

Success!

I just got off the phone with Wuffer and a buddy of his who has dealt with this A26 Lockout Module jumper wire fiasco... and it is indeed pins 3 and 5 (NOT pins 1 and 3 as I've read elsewhere on the forums). All that has to be done is you simply solder in a jumper wire on the exterior harness side of the module (NOT inside the module itself), without cutting the two wires that go to pins 3 and 5 in between them. Voila! The new AC compressor without the lockout sensor now works, and the lockout function has been bypassed.

Many thanks to Wuffer, his buddy, Shogun, E32Fan, Wolfbrian, and bmwdirtracer! You all just saved me alot of heart-ache, and my client alot of money!

I'll keep posting to let you guys know how the restoration of this 850i is going, and I'll be sure to let you know if I have any other questions. Hopefully this thread will clear up any questions other forum members may have about bypassing this silly lockout sensor module.

Merry Christmas Gentlemen!

[Wuffer]

Good to hear it all worked out!

[shogun]

I received an email from Italy from an E31 owner EURO spec. via my website and I assume I post the question better here, so all the E31 experts can chime in and reply, he refers to this thread:

Dear sir, i'm writing you about the lock sensor on the E31 compressor. i read several time the article on bimmerforums but I didn't get i right.
I have currently installed module 61.35-1392410 and i have to replace with module 61358360039 , currently the new module is no longer avaible. could you please help me to baypass the lock sensor on the module.
consider the installed one is 61.35-1392410 on E31 1991.
do you have any picture on what kind of procedure i have to follow?
thank you and kind regards, Umberto
unquote

maybe someone here on the forum can help, thanks

[wolfebrian2120]

Seems to me that in ElcroVeeDubs' last post, that all you need to do is jump pins 3 and 5 going into the module while still allowing their signals to go to the module. I'm not 100% sure which pins are 3 and 5. Here is a picture of my old module 410. in what I think is the proper orientation.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f06esgjlp...qR15ROzua?dl=0

I would assume since its a German part that things make logical sense and that pins 1-5 are top row and 6-10 are the bottom.

[newyorkcentral0]

Hello Thereyes the situation is the same as ElcroVeeDubsthe box in the picutre is exaclt what i have in the caryou are correct pins 1-5 are top row and 6-10 are the bottomhere is a picture of the electric schematicshttps://www.dropbox.com/s/83bci70xefur4pn/wiring.jpg?dl=0so i have to remove the wire n. 3 and wire 5 from the connector and link them togethero do i have to do something inside the box?thank you for the support