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Thread: The Official 2016-2017 F1 Offseason Thread

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3fuz View Post
    That would be nice if Manor was on the field. Not because they will compete for podiums this year, but because it's good for the sport to have a diverse field. Hopefully they can become better over the coming seasons too.

    Question on the new chassis - I thought the increased aero would make overtaking more difficult because of the washout over the front wing when getting closer to the car in front, and then when the pursuing driver tries to overtake, which in turn makes it hell on tire longevity. Is that not the case based on what you're seeing/reading, RB? Has Pirelli addressed that in their 2017 compounds?
    Basically, I've read that the larger rear diffuser - in conjunction with the lower rear wing (lower wing keeps the airflow attached from the back of the car and gives the diffuser some extra downforce - but then again the rear wing being lower also may just create lower air vortexes behind the car making the airflow over the front wing of the following car more disrupted thereby generating less downforce for the car behind). The diffuser on the following car will also be generating a lot more downforce but since the airflow is disrupted over the front wing, the front wing is not able to do its job of directing the airflow to the necessary places with the necessary vortexes. Therefore the airflow over the car will become even more disrupted (and possibly detached) thus making the following car "slower".

    So the diffuser generates relatively "free" downforce (no drag costs associated with it) and should not be negatively impacted by the car in front. However, all other airflow over/around the car will be seriously impacted. Given that the front wings (seriously complex now in that they know how to manage the airflow over/around the front wheels and directing airflow to the necessary points on the rest of the car) will still be impacted I think that the complexity leads to cars not being able to follow closely.

    The undertrays (the tea tray right at the front of the plank at on the bottom of the car - just behind the front axle) are becoming more and more important too with directing air around and through to the diffuser.

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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    I always liked Montoya for his no F's given attitude and shaking the established order and saying what is on his mind! Great driver!


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    Quick update from F1technical

    Sebastian Vettel started its 2017 season in a rather bad way, Renault won't announce a new team principal despite the departure of Frederic Vasseur, teams are announcing the presentation dates of their 2017 cars, Fernando Alonso will bring McLaren's new car onto the track for the first time, more teams changed their fuel supplier.
    Sebastian Vettel’s season didn’t get off in the best way
    Scuderia Ferrari completed a testing programme on home soil in Fiorano this week. The Italian marque put focus on Pirelli’s rain tyres. F1’s sole tyre manufacturer wanted to test the behaviour of its new product which also grew in its width such its dry weather tyres. The main priority was to check the warming-up process of the new tyres.
    Ferrari prepared its ‘mule’ 2015 machinery which mimics the downforce level expected in the new campaign. The Fiorano test track was artificially soaked with water. The work was curtailed when Sebastian Vettel lost control over his car.
    Pirelli said the incident was a normal accident which happened because of the very low temperatures. Sebastian Vettel sustained only minor bruises.
    More F1 teams announced the launch date of their 2017 cars
    As the clock ticks down, F1 teams are working ceaselessly to complete the assembly of their cars which will roll to the track for the first time on 27 February in Barcelona.
    Sauber will launch its new machinery on 20th February, Renault follows the Swiss team the day after, Force India will hold its presentation on 22th February. Mercedes unveils its 2017 title challenger on 23th February in Silverstone and will give the new car its track debut on the same day. Ferrari presents the successor of the SF-16H on 24th February in Fiorano. McLaren chose the same day for the presentation as its Italian rival. Haas and Toro Rosso will present its new machineries on 26th Feburary, a day before the official winter testing kicks off near Montmelo.
    Renault won’t replace departing Vasseur
    Renault recently announced that it parts ways with its team principal Frederic Vasseur. The announcement came after a rather difficult year for Renault which was its return year as a works team. The French manufacturer’s cars rarely survived the first qualifying segment.
    Vasseur left the squad amid speculation of management dispute. The managing director Cyril Abiteboul claimed that Renault won’t nominate a new team boss as its current management structure is so strong that it doesn’t need to fill the position. He keeps his position and will attend the meetings of team principals. Alan Permane and Ciaron Pilbeam will remain on the pitwall and fulfil their tasks.
    Fernando Alonso to debut McLaren-Honda’s new challenger
    McLaren announced that Fernando Alonso will give its new car the track debut later this month when the winter testing period begins on February 27 in Barcelona.
    McLaren-Honda finds itself in a period of change once again. Long-time team principal and McLaren’s shareholder Ron Dennis left the team amid speculation of dispute with major shareholder Mansour Ojjeh. Changes are also foreseen on the drivers’ side as Jenson Button left the squad after a seven-year period and his seat will be occupied by Belgian Stoffel Vandoorne. The company’s executive director is Zak Brown while Eric Boullier remains the F1’ team’s chief.
    More teams replace their fuel supplier
    More F1 teams parted company with their fuel supplier for the 2017 season. French works team Renault ended its long partnership with Total and will instead team up with British Petrol for fuel and with Castor for lubricant supplement. The French team last worked with BP and Castrol back in 1997 when the Williams-Renault team conquered both the drivers’ and the constructors’ title. The swap of oil and lubricant supplier or Renault means that Total leaves the Formula One for now.
    McLaren’s long time partner Exxon/Mobil left the partnership with the traditional British team and joined Red Bull as its supplier. The energy drinks’ company’s contract means that the same Renault power unit will work with different fuels and lubricants. Renault announced that it will follow a single development path despite to the different fuel products.

    Because of the collaboration of Red Bull and Exxon/Mobil, McLaren-Honda had to search for a new partner. From the 2017 season on British Petrol will be the Woking-based team’s partner such as Renault’s supplier.



  5. #205
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    Since Total pulled out of F1 some teams have been squabbling and others left hanging. Exxon Mobil dumped McLaren soon enough.... wow.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidgeBack View Post
    Since Total pulled out of F1 some teams have been squabbling and others left hanging. Exxon Mobil dumped McLaren soon enough.... wow.
    I think XOM was paying pretty high prices for a team that's been a far backmarker for years now. I see McLaren really falling on hard times soon if they don't drastically improve, as their cost structure is on the higher end of the range, and they are putting up rubbish results and starting to lose advertising dollars after years of little improvement.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Def View Post
    I think XOM was paying pretty high prices for a team that's been a far backmarker for years now. I see McLaren really falling on hard times soon if they don't drastically improve, as their cost structure is on the higher end of the range, and they are putting up rubbish results and starting to lose advertising dollars after years of little improvement.
    Yeah, McLaren haven't had a primary sponsor for a couple of seasons now. The chassis is pretty darn good, pity about the Honda power unit.

  8. #208
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    Meh, I don't buy their "2nd best chassis" crap they have been harping on for a while. Based on their low and high speed corner performance, they've usually had either the 4th or sometimes 5th best chassis over the past couple of years. Maybe 3rd on the rare circuit that really suited them, but I think they'd put up better results if it was as good as they say. They were down on power in the 2nd half of 2016, but not by a huge amount like 2015, but they were still struggling to get into the top 10 consistently.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Def View Post
    Meh, I don't buy their "2nd best chassis" crap they have been harping on for a while. Based on their low and high speed corner performance, they've usually had either the 4th or sometimes 5th best chassis over the past couple of years. Maybe 3rd on the rare circuit that really suited them, but I think they'd put up better results if it was as good as they say. They were down on power in the 2nd half of 2016, but not by a huge amount like 2015, but they were still struggling to get into the top 10 consistently.
    I think their chassis was pretty good (probably 3rd/4th on some circuits) because of the following:

    Their PU struggled and therefore, unlike Merc, RBR, and Ferrari (and probably williams and FI), had to carry the full allowance of fuel. The 10+ extra kilograms compared to the other teams is .1/.2 seconds per lap. Their energy capture from the MGU-K and MGU-H was typically bad compared to any other team.

    I recall watching practice sessions where (given the fuel on board is pretty much unknown but when testing for quali laps (on Friday's 2nd FP or Saturday's FP) most teams generally only have enough fuel for a few laps) and they were chatting with ex-drivers that these guys mentioned they knew the speeds of every corner by every team (according to GPS and other data available to everyone) and they could therefore make an informed decision. They were saying that the McLaren was just as quick as the top guys through certain corners.

    McLaren also had to give up certain amounts of downforce to be competitive on the straights - with carrying the extra fuel and with the lack of harvested power to carry them through the straights - and therefore we a little down on the corner speeds compared to the practice sessions.

    Therefore, IM granted non-expert O, the chassis (while not of Merc/RBR quality) was comparable (at many tracks) with Ferrari and definitely ahead of Williams.

    Also, if you look at the drivers during the sessions, Button and Alonso were able to be very smooth with the wheel. Alonso was a little harsher when he found understeer but generally speaking they could both be pretty smooth - which either means they are dead slow or that the chassis was well balanced.
    Last edited by RidgeBack; 02-18-2017 at 01:28 PM.

  10. #210
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    I think they had decent balance in the slower stuff, but were down on downforce. Martin Brundle seemed to echo this with his skepticism of them having the "2nd best chassis" and frequently talked of them being visibly down on the faster guys at high speed stuff.

    Yes, they probably had a better chassis than Williams towards the end of the season, but there are some indications that they were roughly in the same league as Torro Rosso on their overall package, which isn't exactly a glowing mark to hit.

    Boulliea or whatever his name is pushed things a bit far with his comments, and the results speak for themselves...

  11. #211
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    As mentioned above they were down on downforce because they had to reduce it to make up for lack of power on the straights. Merc and RBR had, by far, the best chassis in F1 last year. I'd say Ferrari and McLaren were next best at some circuits. FI and STR next (STR really struggling with the old Ferrari PU but the chassis was good). Williams had a very low drag chassis but lacked any meaningful downforce... much more so than McLaren.

    Also, I'd believe Brundle over most pundits.

    Given the above opinions, I don't hold much that McLaren will be fighting for podiums this year. Even given that Honda have now changed their tune and are following Merc's lead when it comes to PU component positioning etc. They still have to find a fuel/lubricant supplier that they can work with to get the most benefit from the new Honda PUs.

    I think Merc will be the team to chase, with RBR a very close second (possibly closer depending upon the updates renault bring) at most tracks but mostly keeping them honest. I think Ferrari will be a distant 3rd. I gather this because of the "questions/complaints/requests for explanation" they've been sending to the FIA regarding suspension etc. They haven't found an ideal solution (or are unable to get what they think Merc's solution is working). Not sure about Wiliams nor FI because each can be undone quite easily and both can show a bit of promise given the new rules. STR may prove to be front of the midpack this year given that their chassis last year was good and this year they'll have the much improved Renault compared to the '15 Ferrari units.

    If I was to pick a team that would punch above its weight this year it would be Scuderia Toro Rosso with Carlos Sainz.

    But I'm hoping to catch some (if not all) of the pre season testing so the above is mere guesswork until I get further informed.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidgeBack View Post
    I think their chassis was pretty good (probably 3rd/4th on some circuits) because of the following:

    Their PU struggled and therefore, unlike Merc, RBR, and Ferrari (and probably williams and FI), had to carry the full allowance of fuel. The 10+ extra kilograms compared to the other teams is .1/.2 seconds per lap. Their energy capture from the MGU-K and MGU-H was typically bad compared to any other team.

    I recall watching practice sessions where (given the fuel on board is pretty much unknown but when testing for quali laps (on Friday's 2nd FP or Saturday's FP) most teams generally only have enough fuel for a few laps) and they were chatting with ex-drivers that these guys mentioned they knew the speeds of every corner by every team (according to GPS and other data available to everyone) and they could therefore make an informed decision. They were saying that the McLaren was just as quick as the top guys through certain corners.

    McLaren also had to give up certain amounts of downforce to be competitive on the straights - with carrying the extra fuel and with the lack of harvested power to carry them through the straights - and therefore we a little down on the corner speeds compared to the practice sessions.

    Therefore, IM granted non-expert O, the chassis (while not of Merc/RBR quality) was comparable (at many tracks) with Ferrari and definitely ahead of Williams.

    Also, if you look at the drivers during the sessions, Button and Alonso were able to be very smooth with the wheel. Alonso was a little harsher when he found understeer but generally speaking they could both be pretty smooth - which either means they are dead slow or that the chassis was well balanced.
    That sounds very well argumented and makes sense.
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    Looks good but I still wish the cars were shorter. Getting a bit of a Rothmans vibe.

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    Are they still suppose to have that stubby nose thing?



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    What's with the giant 2010-ish airbox fin?

    I like the color scheme a hell of a lot more than the goofy yellow and blue.

    Disappointed the notch nose is still present.

    Also expected the front wing to be more aggressively/obviously swept.

    It's been said before, but holy hell the new tires are steamrollers.

    I think the FW40 wins the appearance wars so far:

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  16. #216
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    Yeah, the shark fin really needs to go and also the stubby nose as well. Rest all looks really good.

    Regardless of what other cars are going to look in terms of livery I still think nothing can beat the Martini livery.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It looks so good on a car.



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    Is Sauber without a premier sponsor this year after Banco Brazil bailed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan M3 View Post
    Crime is crime. So what if I have a badge, gun, taser, pepper spray, and a propensity for violating individual's rights?

  18. #218
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    Yeah, the martini livery is going to win every time. Doesn't matter if the car itself isn't as attractive. As long as that livery is present all else will be 2nd best.

    That Sauber is a big improvement aesthetically to the last few years.
    Last edited by sk8rat6587; 02-20-2017 at 11:56 AM.

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    Initial thoughts but damn, that Sauber looks good. Love the rear swept wing and the split air intakes straked backwards. Cannot see the sweep of the front wing clearly but the livery is also excellent.

    The mat livery on the Williams is also the beesknees. Liking the fin on the williams more than the sauber. But really impressed. I hope the racing is improved by as much as the appearance.

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    The sexiest parts of the FW40 are the curves of the coke-bottle rear bodywork and the elongated nose between the front suspension and the wing.

    The white and the Martini stripes really set off those two elements. Va-va-voom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3fuz View Post
    Is Sauber without a premier sponsor this year after Banco Brazil bailed?

    They're hoping to make a sponsorship deal with the Kebab Kiosk of Hinwil next week.
    BMWs are fun in the snow too...


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    Honda already poised for disappointment..

    "It's very high risk, we don't know a lot of things about that new concept."
    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128097


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    Ehh, doesn't sound that good to me. I can just hope for best of luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by badmonkey View Post
    Honda already poised for disappointment..



    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128097


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    Quote Originally Posted by badmonkey View Post
    Honda already poised for disappointment..



    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128097


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I read that this morning and thought, "oh crap." We can only hope he's bluffing, but methinks not...

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  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3fuz View Post
    I read that this morning and thought, "oh crap." We can only hope he's bluffing, but methinks not...
    They, from what I understand, have now reverted to "copying" the Merc layout. two things spring to mind immediately

    1 - Merc has had a couple of years to refine the system whereas it's brand new to Honda

    2 - One of honda's issues has been the recovery of energy to store in the batteries. Not being able to capture/store/release this energy as efficiently as Merc has has been problematic throughout their return. I wonder if they've mastered this enough to bring the needed boost required (without even talking about the ICE etc).

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