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Thread: DeadPool DEFEATED! -- 540i6 Front Mount Turbo Build

  1. #101
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    Awesome, thanks! And BTW, I love some mopar too. Strange combo for the two of us to share, lol.

    I think we're probably talking about a A518 trans then? At least that's what my initial googling indicates.

  2. #102
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    IMAG2626.jpgIMAG2629.jpg mopar bellhousing. 1/8" off center. Top two bolts line up. Bmw flex plate location is taller,deeper, higher or whatever you want to call it. Providing room for a spacer/adapter. Of course converter snout would have to be turned down to fit bmw crank.IMAG2630.jpg But I'm sure it is closer than the GM for a starting point.

  3. #103
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    Thanks WagHo! That a518/46RH option looks very interesting for sure, I've been googling.

    As far as the important part of this build goes, I've lost a couple of weeks it seems. First it was zero degrees F out in my garage which made me want to stay inside, and then the holidays and whatnot.... Equals time lost. A couple weeks before Christmas I thought I was ahead of the rough schedule/goal I had set for fabrication, and now I'm behind. At any rate, I'm hoping to make some progress today, and if all goes well, maybe I will have the hotside all fabbed, up to the turbo (no downpipe or exhaust yet).

    The next piece after I get the hotside finished up to the turbo is to figure out what I'm going to do with the lower radiator hose routing, and fabricate my aluminum tubing hard pieces for that. I don't think that is going to be a big problem.

    I do keep getting the cart ahead of the horse in my head, spending a lot of time trying to figure out at what point in the build I want to dig into the engine to properly gap rings and how I'm going to approach the reduction of compression so I can try to make some big-ish power out of an M62. I like the idea of keeping all factory parts and throwing in an M60 crank, especially if we have never seen a broken factory rod on this forum??? I need to go back though the M62b44 F/I building thread and see if there are any incidences of rods letting go first, or if it's always pistons.

    If it's always the pistons, then I think it makes sense to go the factory parts destroke route. Alternatively though, if the rods might actually be a significant weak point too, then it indicates more toward using some of the decompression H-beam rods like Kenny1958 used. I normally think that absent detonation these powder metal forged factory rods are good for somewhere in the range of 80-100 ft-lbs of torque each with reasonable reliability. If that is true, it's on the borderline of where I wouldn't really need to change them for the sake of strength since that amount of torque in this engine should translate to about 650-800whp with the 6-spd. The other concern for rods is high RPMs, but since there are no bigger cams available in my price range, that is not a concern either...

    One Swedish drifter guy I was able to get some info from indicated that he had run into trouble with the M62 in the 625-650ish wheel HP range, but it seems that he was running stock compression and stock ring gaps.

    At some point I definitely want to get the compression down significantly by some means though, and the thought of using some stupidly expensive head thick gaskets irritates me. Haha...

    Oh, the other thing that I have let distract me is shopping for a metal lathe to use for making crank adapters and whatever else. But that's a whole other story. I'm not sure if I want to buy one, or just find someone who does some machine work on the side, and I'll probably be money ahead in the long run. Not having a metal lathe sitting around taking up space and trying to rust in the Michigan humidity would be nice also...

  4. #104
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    Ha ha. You said weeks! I've lost decades on some projects. Then there's the years getting my workspace transitioned from work to personal. Then you're old and have to focus on preparing for retirement.
    Definitely blow up factory parts before worrying about upgrading the rods. M60 cams (with the heads) are bigger, but an unknown hp bump.
    And who knows how many piston problems are caused by tight ring gap, even if it wasn't enough to score the block. The ring land is way down compared to most pistons.

  5. #105
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    Looks like I simulposted over in your engine building thread with you posting here. You don't remember any factory rods letting go? Assuming that to be the case, I need to find a good price on a usable M60 crank.

  6. #106
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    I didn't have as much time as I hoped for to work on the hotside fabrication yesterday, but I did get the crossover tube pretty much finished other than for tacking in the very last piece. That has to be done on the car, so I have to bring my welder over from my "workshop" bay into the bay where the 540 has been sitting for about a year now... Lol. I will get some pictures of the finished crossover, hopefully today, but in the mean time, here are some pics of what it looked like yesterday when I started working on it.

    The remaining piece when I took these is the part that extends forward to the V-band at the back of the passenger side log manifold:

    20161228_132402small.jpg

    20161228_132445small.jpg

    20161228_133141small.jpg

    20161228_133215small.jpg

    20161228_133233small.jpg

    Everything has "finger thickness" clearance haha, so hopefully once I wrap it with the fancy DEI exhaust wrap it will all be ok...

    - - - Updated - - -

    By the way, I'll be disappointed (or impressed?) if someone doesn't say something along the lines of "OMG, that crossover tube is so long, you're going to have tons of turbo lag! That will never work." And I won't argue against that thought, even though I expect it to be false. We shall see..

    I went with this routing a multitude of reasons, but I can see where I could in the future make a different crossover that goes under the bellhousing. It would be a bit of a pain to do with using the factory primaries on the driver's side, but I think maybe not too horrible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On the topic of turbo system length, I really enjoy this video:


  7. #107
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    lookin good T - good stuff, like the progress!

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  8. #108
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    Looking great! I don't think lag will be too bad. What diameter is the crossover? Should pump up pretty quick and get the turbo movin.
    98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!

  9. #109
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    The crossover is all 2" O.D. right up to just before the first primary tube enters on the log. At that point it bumps up to 2 1/8", and then bumps up to 2 1/4" inch for the rest of the log and the up-pipe all the way to the flare out to the T4 turbo flange. I "designed" it to have good velocity through the system, which will hopefully provide nice responsiveness even with the large-ish turbine wheel, while keeping drive pressure in the hotside as low as possible.

    I'm struggling a little bit with the decision of whether to slap a 60mm or 44mm wastegate in it. I think it's going to be a 60mm one, mainly because I have a Chinese one that I had my local sprint car engine shop modify with a bronze valve guide, and I want to try it out.

  10. #110
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    You adding ebc? If your cut in angle to the WG is decent, the 44 might be fine depending on your boost target. Go 60 if it will fit I guess to be safe. Maybe check on FI board?
    98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!

  11. #111
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    Probably not EBC, at least not in the early stages of the project. The MS3 will support it if I want to incorporate it at some point.

    If I have some time to work on this sucker today, I will see how the fit of the 60mm WG looks, but I think it will be ok. As far as external dimensions it isn't much bigger than the 44mm one I have.

  12. #112
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    Crossover is finished as of last night. Fits like a glove. Next time it comes off it gets DEI Titanium heatwrapped:

    CrossoverOnBenchSmall.jpg

    CrossoverOnCarFinished.jpg

  13. #113
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    Woot!
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  15. #115
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    Haha, thanks guys!

    I got the 60mm wastegate pretty much in place tonight, and it's pretty tight. I'll probably finish that up tomorrow and move on to the next bit. Maybe the lower radiator hose....

    By the way, at this point I think I have pretty much concluded that the rear mount setup is the way to go turbo on these e39s. Everything up front is like threading a needle.

  16. #116
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    Nice MIG's Thad.
    Hoping to get to the vise welding this coming week, picked up some nickel rods a few days ago.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    Crossover is finished as of last night. Fits like a glove. Next time it comes off it gets DEI Titanium heatwrapped:

    CrossoverOnBenchSmall.jpg

    CrossoverOnCarFinished.jpg
    Wow! Cool!
    Great work!
    I wish I had the skills and money to do this.
    Thanks!
    Jason

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  18. #118
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    Ouch Jim, that is some quality TIG welding right there! Haha I do find that on mild steel like this it is very rare that I get nice stacks of dimes like on aluminum, or nice stainless weld appearance. Every once in a while, but not often. They are strong as can be though, and that is what I'm going for. Full penetration but smooth on the inside, using enough filler to stand a bit proud of the surface for strength, and just GET 'ER DONE!

    Did you get that Crown Royal (or is that the beverage?) filler rods that I found for cast iron, or some other ones?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks Jason! It's a big project, but coming along.

    EDIT: I should correct myself a little bit about the appearance of the mild steel welds. When I do a quick fusion weld to get pieces stuck together they often look really nice, smooth, and pretty colored. Not as good as stainless, but good. Then when I go back over them with the filler to make them strong, they end up looking like you see here.
    Last edited by tptrsn; 12-30-2016 at 09:34 PM. Reason: Correcting myself...

  19. #119
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    Ha ha ha awesome. Yeah more validation of the "near impossible" status of E39 V8 turbo, but let's see this mofo run I say! Dayum, we getting close, son! So glad you decided to dive back in this fall.
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  20. #120
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    Definitely, it really is a VERY difficult install. But I couldn't let it whip me! Lol

  21. #121
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    Love the updated pictures!
    What more is there to do to finish the build?
    Thanks!
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    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  22. #122
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    Oops, just after I posted I was thinking that might be TIG, sorry.
    Couldn't find the rods/wire we talked about unless I ordered it, a lot more than I needed.
    I was reading (google) about using arc welding rod, just knock off the flex and you've got a nice nickel rod.
    Spoke to the local weld shop about it, they confirmed it was OK.

  23. #123
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    I was thinking they might be TIG too. What's your gas and is your cup big enough size?

    Anyway, I can see this working. Getting exiting.
    98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
    What more is there to do to finish the build?
    Thanks!
    Jason
    There's a lot yet to do I'm afraid. Once I get the wastegate secured in place, I'm going to make a little atmospheric dump tube to underneath the engine, and call that good for now. That all shouldn't take too long. Later I would like to run the WG tube back under the crossmember and tie it into the exhaust because I've never had a nice recirculated wastegate dump. But for now the atmo dump will suffice.

    Next I have to fabricate up my aluminum hard pipes for my lower radiator hose, then I need to make a downpipe, make the exhaust, finish the charge pipe, mount the BOV, figure out the routing for the turbo side of the IAC valve, prepare the intake manifold for positive pressure, do something to vent the crankcase, work out my turbo oil drain, run the oil feed line to the turbo, maybe make the intake tube to the turbo (or maybe leave that until I get it running), and then I can slap in the bigger injectors and start working on wiring and tuning. And there are probably things I forgot to mention.

    I'm going to have to stay on this sucker or it will be another year before I get it done!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Oops, just after I posted I was thinking that might be TIG, sorry.
    Couldn't find the rods/wire we talked about unless I ordered it, a lot more than I needed.
    I was reading (google) about using arc welding rod, just knock off the flex and you've got a nice nickel rod.
    Spoke to the local weld shop about it, they confirmed it was OK.
    Haha, no problem Jim, I get it! I usually look at those welds when I'm done and say to myself, well, they're very functional. That's a cool trick about using the arc welding rods with the flux knocked off! Gonna have to keep that in mind.

    Chris, I'm using straight argon with a number 6 or 7 stubby gas lens on a Number 9 flex head torch. I have been gradually reducing my gas usage down to where I'm at about 8-10CFH, and that seems to work really well. With mild steel and ER70S-6 filler rod I just get welds that look a little nondescript on the outside, but the insides are really nice with full penetration. Since this is all going to be wrapped anyway, the strength and inside profile are most important to me. Despite my dissatisfaction with the aesthetics of the weld exteriors, they really do satisfy my core criteria.

    Maybe someday I'll stop being too lazy to backpurge, and I'll build something out of stainless so I can try to make it purty... Or not, haha. But for now I just can't stand letting the insides of the stainless welds get all sugary, so I just don't usually weld on it. Oh, I did get some Solar Flux to try out sometime to see how that does in lieu of backpurging.

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    Random question, but why heat wrap the exhaust vs ceramic coatings? I've no experience with either, but are ceramic coatings terribly expensive and not worth the hassle? I've heard that if moisture gets under the wrap the tubes can rust out fairly quickly.
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