DeadPool DEFEATED! -- 540i6 Front Mount Turbo Build

[tptrsn]

Little update: I've been thrashing on this sucker a bit.

Got the new clutch setup in, which will be an interesting experiment.

Exhaust is back on the car in the same configuration. The additional muffler will wait for a bit until I can get some more fun time in the car with the exhaust as is. It's too loud, but it doesn't really bother me, I just don't like it as much as I could.

Treadstone TR8 intercooler is mounted in its initial location, which I think will probably work. Now is time for finishing up the intercooler mounting and beginning to fabricate the new charge pipe situation.

Trimming is completed for the new intake pipe down into the front bumper, with the factory MAF down in there in draw-through configuration.

2oz. additional PAG100 oil added to the A/C system, so as soon as I have the engine running again I will charge the A/C system.

Crossing stuff off the list like mad!!

[philly98540]

Nice! Let's see how this clutch holds and works our on street.

[tptrsn]

Nice! Let's see how this clutch holds and works our on street.

For sure, it will be super interesting!

One thing I forgot to mention in my update list was that I tested the compression in the M62, and it seems all healthy. So far so good, with TestO's help, I intend to get the tune dialed in better before I start adding more boost. Of course, adding the intercooler adds to the margin of safety too, so that is nice.

[tptrsn]

Version 2 is beginning to come together. Charging the A/C today and tidying up a couple of other little items, and then I should have it back on the road. Going to keep the same wastegate spring in for now to get as direct of comparison of the draw-through MAF to the prior blow-through setup. Also, I surmise that the inclusion of the intercooler should cost a small amount of manifold pressure, although maybe not much at these tiny levels of boost (about 6psi before). The low boost will help me break in the clutch in a semi-responsible manner for a few days of driving.

Version2 Coming Together.jpg

Intercooler shot:

Intercooler.jpg

With the aux fan still in place, the intercooler had to be pushed much farther forward than I really wanted to. Because of that, I decided to just weld hard tubes onto it and embrace the bling. Normally I ONLY run blacked out intercoolers, but this one is just too obvious for that I think. I'm gonna try to just own it... Lol

[1999 540i m]

Intercooler.jpg

Garage Art

[geargrinder]

Phenomenal Thad. Can't believe how fast you turned around the IC redesign.

WBO2 Looks a little close to the firewall - watch for melty plastic back there! Whole package looks sweet though. Can't wait to see some results.

[philly98540]

Was watching play by play for the past week. Thad moves fast and does some great work!

Thad- Lets hope you can get the tune to play nice with the draw through MAF! Can't wait to hear how it spools up!

[tptrsn]

Garage Art

Haha, thanks, I guess you approve then. I wasn't sure if I would like it this way -- correction, I didn't think I would like it this way since I normally like to hide my intercoolers and go for a sleeper sort of deal -- but I actually think I don't mind it. Time will tell I guess.

Phenomenal Thad. Can't believe how fast you turned around the IC redesign.

WBO2 Looks a little close to the firewall - watch for melty plastic back there! Whole package looks sweet though. Can't wait to see some results.

Thanks my man! I definitely could have gotten that WBO2 bung positioned a little more perfectly, but at least it's pretty well tucked away back there. The picture is a little misleading too, all of the metallic parts of the sensor are at least 1" away from plastic, and it's only rubber that is actually making contact.

Was watching play by play for the past week. Thad moves fast and does some great work!

Thad- Lets hope you can get the tune to play nice with the draw through MAF! Can't wait to hear how it spools up!

Thanks, it's been great having you to bounce stuff off of and whatnot!

I'm going to throw another tune into the DME today while I'm vacuuming the A/C system, and I'm hoping that just leaning out the idle areas a bit will help that tip in a little bit. It did improve as the engine warmed up and went from super fat to just fat, so there is hope. If nothing else, it will be a cool learning experience, hopefully along the road to defeating the deadpool! Lol

[computiNATEor]

Aw yeah! ///Menacing!

[tptrsn]

Just got back from the first shakedown/test drive of this setup. IT'S GOOOOD!!

Clutch feels excellent, tune is very nice for a start, M5 differential feels great after the switch to Redline "NS" style fluid (did a couple of nice donuts), 545 shifter with all refresh parts feels like a rifle bolt, and the turbo spools nice and quick.

Boost is down to about 4psi from about 6psi most likely due to the intercooler, so that is nice for a few days of clutch break in. But even at that paltry level of boost, it's kind of beastly. I LIKE. It's really starting to feel like this could be a super nice combo.

Oh yeah, A/C is working like a champ too.

[StRaNgEdAyS]

So the potential for cackling like a madman is definitely there?

Absinthe makes the tart grow fonder

[tptrsn]

So the potential for cackling like a madman is definitely there?

I would have to say the potential definitely exists!!

[bdubose61]

Just read through this entire post and I have to say BRAVO. You have done what many have said to be impossible. Everything looks extremely clean and very nice. I can't wait until we see some videos of it spooling and new 0-60 times on 4psi. Thanks so much for this! Gives me some hope on my 500$ 97 540i project!

[tptrsn]

Thanks man, if you are a good fabricator it's definitely not impossible, just difficult! After doing this I can say for sure that I wouldn't advise doing it unless you just like the idea of spending a LONG time doing intricate fabrication. Otherwise, I would say that a rear-mount makes more sense. And I think this is especially true if you want to keep A/C. If you don't mind scrapping the A/C, then a front mount wouldn't be nearly as bad, just bad.

Having said that, I drove my daughters to school in separate trips this morning in the 540 because one of them had to be there early. I guess it totals about 36 miles, with lots of shifts. So far everything seems great about this combo except for the lack of boost. It may be more like 3psi now than 4. But the clutch and shifter seem great, so as soon as I feel like I've broken in the clutch enough, I'll start adding boost and letting her eat a little bit. I'm going to try to get at least one more tank of E85 run through before I start adding boost. We'll see... Lol

[geargrinder]

Just got back from the first shakedown/test drive of this setup. IT'S GOOOOD!!

Clutch feels excellent, tune is very nice for a start, M5 differential feels great after the switch to Redline "NS" style fluid (did a couple of nice donuts), 545 shifter with all refresh parts feels like a rifle bolt, and the turbo spools nice and quick.

Boost is down to about 4psi from about 6psi most likely due to the intercooler, so that is nice for a few days of clutch break in. But even at that paltry level of boost, it's kind of beastly. I LIKE. It's really starting to feel like this could be a super nice combo.

Oh yeah, A/C is working like a champ too.

Ha ha LEGENDARY triumph over the deadpool.

Nice man. No doubt 2-3psi loss from the FMIC is textbook. Of course you should be adding density when temps are high vs the old setup so, less pressure, but, a few more molecules!

Sounds like your enthusiasm for this platform is flipping the script a bit... I fully expected it would once the "things all started to come together"... My car has been running just perfect lately and a well sorted powerful E39 is just a hard car not to like... and you even kept the A/C! Once you bump that sucker up to some real turbo boosties how are you just gonna flip it to somebody else, man!

Thanks man, if you are a good fabricator it's definitely not impossible, just difficult! After doing this I can say for sure that I wouldn't advise doing it unless you just like the idea of spending a LONG time doing intricate fabrication. Otherwise, I would say that a rear-mount makes more sense. And I think this is especially true if you want to keep A/C. If you don't mind scrapping the A/C, then a front mount wouldn't be nearly as bad, just bad.

Having said that, I drove my daughters to school in separate trips this morning in the 540 because one of them had to be there early. I guess it totals about 36 miles, with lots of shifts. So far everything seems great about this combo except for the lack of boost. It may be more like 3psi now than 4. But the clutch and shifter seem great, so as soon as I feel like I've broken in the clutch enough, I'll start adding boost and letting her eat a little bit. I'm going to try to get at least one more tank of E85 run through before I start adding boost. We'll see... Lol

Sounds great man. Great thing about a turbo is you have 'boost to spare' and you can ramp her up nice and easy... Did you ever try to plumb a BPV? Clearly getting it up top looks super hard if not no-go, but now that you have the FMIC you might be able to just wrap the BPV circuit around that, behind the bumper? Aside from being better for the compressor, it'll also keep your snail spooled up and improve your boostjoyment. Obv BOV also a possibility if you just want to say screw the impact to off-throttle trims, but it's not as 'tidy' that way from a systems perspective.

[tptrsn]

Ha ha LEGENDARY triumph over the deadpool.

Is it a truimph? You're the godfather of the deadpool, so your word goes, but I didn't really feel like this is quite a win yet. I was feeling like if I can get this sucker to live with daily driving of 12psi or more then it's probably a win... I feel like this is a good step though.

Sounds like your enthusiasm for this platform is flipping the script a bit... I fully expected it would once the "things all started to come together"... My car has been running just perfect lately and a well sorted powerful E39 is just a hard car not to like... and you even kept the A/C! Once you bump that sucker up to some real turbo boosties how are you just gonna flip it to somebody else, man!

Definitely I have more enthusiasm for it in this iteration. In addition to raising the boost, I need to add my large-ish rear muffler. It's just a little bit too loud and resonant like this. With the additional muffler and more boost, who can say, I might just really like this car. If that happens, then I'll keep it. At least I can see that it's possible now! Once I crank the hooligan dial on it a little further, things could get fun.

I'll say this, last night I did a little left right left drift out of a donut, letting the wheel spin back and forth via self-steer (driftard style), and it was surprisingly great.

Did you ever try to plumb a BPV? Clearly getting it up top looks super hard if not no-go, but now that you have the FMIC you might be able to just wrap the BPV circuit around that, behind the bumper? Aside from being better for the compressor, it'll also keep your snail spooled up and improve your boostjoyment.

I did not (yet). The way things worked out, I was able to use a 45 degree 3.5" to 4" silicone elbow to connect the factory MAF to the turbo inlet, so plumbing a properly routed BPV turned out not to be as simple as just TIG'ing something up.

Additionally, I'm not super interested in running a BPV or BOV currently. The throttle/transient response of the LRS without a BOV has been excellent without one. Also, just a few days ago there was another round of interesting discussion on yellowbullet among a bunch of super avid spoolers, and basically all of them have moved away from BOVs and BPVs, and like it. They seem to feel at this point that many real race cars are not using them, they are another thing to mess up, there is no actual problem with going without, and probably the whole thing at this point is down to a business opportunity for manufacturers of BOVs/BPVs, combined with turbo manufacturers that would rather see them used and are therefore going to keep pushing them.

Se we'll see when I get the boost turned up higher on one or both of these rigs, but for now I'm super happy without. My suspicion is that at these minimal boost levels they aren't needed at all, but at really big pressures they could be quite beneficial. The 540 at least might well fall somewhere in between the two eventually. I'd like to see the LRS get into some rather high boost numbers eventually, but who knows...

[Laminar]

They seem to feel at this point that many real race cars are not using them, they are another thing to mess up, there is no actual problem with going without, and probably the whole thing at this point is down to a business opportunity for manufacturers of BOVs/BPVs, combined with turbo manufacturers that would rather see them used and are therefore going to keep pushing them.

Turbos can wear/fail for a millions reasons, so in any case it would be hard to point to the lack of BOV/BPV as a sole cause of failure. And you're right - we're probably not going to get good data from people trying to sell a product or people looking for any reason to avoid giving out free warranty replacements.

[StRaNgEdAyS]

I have to say, I was all set to go down the NA route but this build has me thinking seriously about going down this route instead. Turbo charging has always tempted me.

Absinthe makes the tart grow fonder

[geargrinder]

{sharpens Deadpool pencil}

[Subieworx]

Forgot that old thread. My South Bend ended up really sucking and burning up and getting worse and worse... eventually costing me a rehab fee for the JBR flywheel as well as buying a new Spec clutch. Thankfully the JBR's have replaceable friction plates.

I did look back at your thread and saw the bit about 4 vs 6 spring disks. I have the 'warranty' ahem had to 'pay cost for' ahem SB brand brand new down in the basement right now. Might go down and look at it and see what it has. I've figured I'd use it for my S54 clutch if/when that goes but I'm pretty easy on clutches so that day may never come.

Eff South Bend though at this point, the way they handled my case, with a supposed SB dealer advocating for me, turned me right off them.. Never buy a clutch from them ever again.

I think it's all a matter of who you are dealing with. We sell A LOT of SB clutches and have had very few issues. The issues we have had have been handled under warranty at no cost. I couldn't be happier with their clutches and the customer service.

[tptrsn]

Turbos can wear/fail for a millions reasons, so in any case it would be hard to point to the lack of BOV/BPV as a sole cause of failure. And you're right - we're probably not going to get good data from people trying to sell a product or people looking for any reason to avoid giving out free warranty replacements.

Thanks for the input, especially since you actually work in the field!!

I have to say, I was all set to go down the NA route but this build has me thinking seriously about going down this route instead. Turbo charging has always tempted me.

You thinking to try another variation on the rear-mount theme, or go whole-hog crazy like this and build your version of a front mount with A/C? I would love to see how other people solve some of the challenges a build like this presents.

{sharpens Deadpool pencil}

I think that thread is in need of a minor update! Been a few people rumbling on here about positive displacement blower builds. Although none of them have really been going on about what badass builders they are and should be able to easily apply their mad skillz to an E39 540 or M5... But still!

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Anyway, this version of my build is seeming pretty nice at the moment with a super soft tune in it. After more time spent staring at the boost gauge I see I was a bit optimistic when I initially said the FMIC only sucked up 2psi. The boost is definitely pegged hard at 3psi now, so I believe the FMIC absorbed most of 3psi. Or absorbed some boost, and reduced the pressure some by decreasing the temperature of the compressed air... Whatever, not that I really care.

Because the car is running nicely in a baseline state, with ultra comfy A/C and 43-way (? Lol) adjustable comfort seats, and the ceramic puck clutch seems good already, I decided to drive it about 90 miles down to Milan Dragway last night for a couple baseline runs at the test n' tune night.

The time I took the car out before I tore into it to build the turbo setup (a long time ago now), it ran a best ET of about 14.1, and a best trap of about 99mph. Both pretty normal for one of these rides from what I can tell. With only 3psi of boost and a super soft tune with AFRs in the mid-10s now, I wasn't really expecting very much of an improvement over that 14.1/99. Normally I wouldn't consider 3psi to even count as boost. But damn!:

3psi Soft Tune Shakedown Slip.jpg

Gained a full second, and 8mph.

This setup feels really good, albeit not nearly powerful enough yet. The clutch worked great, 545i short shifter was great. Overall, everything was very nice. From what I can tell, this setup is already comparable for acceleration with a normal, stock E39 M5. A good start no matter how you cut it.

The only problem is that when I checked things over after the second run, there was an almost imperceptible single tiny stream of coolant squirting from the rear face of the expansion tank onto the serpentine belt. Not a huge problem, but it convinced me not to wait until the ambient temps went down in the evening and take another run. I'm mystified at how the flat surface of the expansion tank got a pinhole in it, but it's probably 20 years old, so what can you expect, I guess.

Here she is sitting after first drag strip runs with a front mount turbo and A/C:

Sitting After Shakedown Runs.jpg

I'm scheduled for a new windshield next week, and I'll be replacing at least the expansion tank. OH! And adding one more larger body straight through 4" muffler to the rear of the system. This thing is a bit more loud/rumbly than I want it to be right now for driving the family around. Even with all of the factory sound insulation it's still a bit much in the car at times.

After that, more boost and a fairly extensive re-tune to accommodate reduced MAF signal (to accommodate more beeewst), and I'll try to get another data point!

If anyone wants to buy this sucker today, bring $9500 cash. I'll even include the new windshield and expansion tank install, haha. I think it's a decent deal at that price.

[geargrinder]

I think it's all a matter of who you are dealing with. We sell A LOT of SB clutches and have had very few issues. The issues we have had have been handled under warranty at no cost. I couldn't be happier with their clutches and the customer service.

I won't back down from my experience for sure, but, I certainly can also believe what you say is true also. If you have a relationship / rep as a reseller maybe you have the credibility with 'your guy' and when you say "trust me there's nothing wrong with this car or the install, the clutch you sent isn't holding" they take care of you. Maybe my guy doesn't have the juice with them or something. He does sell a crapload of their clutches and indeed I know plenny guys who loved their SB's which is why I went that way in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, they can suck my left nut with extreme predjudice, and won't get another dime unless somebody shows up at my doorstep with flowers, cold beer, an apology, and a briefcase of cash and/or free clutch... but yeah. Maybe they are better for other people. Doesn't invalidate my experience tho'.

[geargrinder]

I think that thread is in need of a minor update! Been a few people rumbling on here about positive displacement blower builds. Although none of them have really been going on about what badass builders they are and should be able to easily apply their mad skillz to an E39 540 or M5... But still!

Yeah part of it is the rule about you gotta make a public declaration of intent, and the braggier it is, the bigger the deadpool font (Ok I haven't done that yet but its a cute idea..). But I'll hit you up on email on the topic..

Gained a full second, and 8mph.
...snip...
After that, more boost and a fairly extensive re-tune to accommodate reduced MAF signal (to accommodate more beeewst), and I'll try to get another data point!

Dood, NICE progress - you're really hammering this one along!

[philly98540]

Really impressed you already hits the drags. You don't mess around. The fact you gained a second at only 3psi, is pretty impressive. Turn it up some and let her rip. Interested in how you rework the maf and tune!

What's this for sale crap? You'll be in love soon enough.

[tptrsn]

Yeah part of it is the rule about you gotta make a public declaration of intent, and the braggier it is, the bigger the deadpool font (Ok I haven't done that yet but its a cute idea..). But I'll hit you up on email on the topic..

For sure the guys I'm referring to haven't been making any braggy claims, but they are doing some F/I build badassery, and they are sharing on the forum, so it would be kind of cool to track them I thought. I shot you some ideas back.

Really impressed you already hits the drags. You don't mess around. The fact you gained a second at only 3psi, is pretty impressive. Turn it up some and let her rip. Interested in how you rework the maf and tune!

What's this for sale crap? You'll be in love soon enough.

Thanks! I really enjoy just popping out to a test n' tune night to run a car, get some data, watch some other cars, shoot the bull with some car guys, and probably down a brewsky or two. Can't really go wrong with all of that, so I figured "baselining" this turbo setup was a good excuse, haha...

And yeah, it's still for sale. It's simply too nice of a car for me. I have no need/use for a nice car, so once the desire to push the build along has faded, this beast will be back to sitting in the garage taking up space again. Basically going to waste.