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Thread: DeadPool DEFEATED! -- 540i6 Front Mount Turbo Build

  1. #1026
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    Sounds like there's only one way to find out what this is going to take! (by just jumping in with both feet and trudging through it)

    It also sounds like the real ticket (aside from going to a cable throttle and major hackery) is going to be setting up a DME connector to function as connector to the car for a full plug-n-play ECU replacement, and trying to get an aftermarket setup running the whole shooting match. That way there would be relatively simple swaps back to the DME for diagnostics, inspections, or whatever.

    No matter how you cut it, it's going to be a big project! But once someone cracks it who is willing to disclose the recipe, the game would be on.

  2. #1027
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    I don't know sh!t, but I have a really dumb question that needs answering.
    If you can use a Pot-meter to govern the MAS, can you also be able to place multiple pot meters at every location and still fool the Stock ECU, with boost?

  3. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggieleemorton View Post
    If you can use a Pot-meter to govern the MAS, can you also be able to place multiple pot meters at every location and still fool the Stock ECU, with boost?
    In the Brit vernaculars "What are you possibly on about mate!?"
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  4. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon316i View Post
    Thad I'm using the standard m62 drive by wire throttle body and an ecumaster emu black standalone.
    Runs the coils with no ignitors in wasted spark and sequential injection.
    Luckily the throttle body part number was listed in there DBW wizard so had all the settings there ready. This was tweaked by the tuner though on the dyno.

    Heres a video of when I first got it running after the rebuild with my home tune in there did around 750 miles on it before charging.

    https://youtu.be/EUMeEorb9CQ
    Jon, for the sake of others who are wanting to run the e-throttle, etc., can you please remind us what duties you have left to the DME, and what all exactly is being controlled by the ECUmaster EMU Black(?) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    In the Brit vernaculars "What are you possibly on about mate!?"
    Indeed! Lol. Are you (Reggieleemorton) referring to Zener Diodes to clamp the signal voltage, or something else altogether?

  5. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    In the Brit vernaculars "What are you possibly on about mate!?"
    Ive been reading and following all the steps this kind gentleman has offered and Im very pleased with what I personally gained from his journey, specifically the point he made regarding ABS and various electronic aids. Ive always believed those aids were needed and this thread has really opened my eyes to the possibilities using MS3x.
    I enjoy the M62tu in my 740i but I really feel its underpowered and so Ive decided to look into turbo charging which brought me to this thread.
    Ideally, MS3x running the M62tu without ABS is possible while piggy backing the stock ECU. But after turbo charging the M62 create to many problems due to its high compression and Vanos. Now Im exploring whether the MS3x can run the a turbo charged M73TU. Its the same work for a 30% gain in hp.

  6. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggieleemorton View Post
    I enjoy the M62tu in my 740i but I really feel its underpowered and so Ive decided to look into turbo charging which brought me to this thread.
    {Sharpens pencil...}
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  7. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggieleemorton View Post
    Ideally, MS3x running the M62tu without ABS is possible while piggy backing the stock ECU. But after turbo charging the M62 create to many problems due to its high compression and Vanos. Now Im exploring whether the MS3x can run the a turbo charged M73TU. Its the same work for a 30% gain in hp.
    There are so many errors in such a short number of words, its' clear you are clearly way way out of your depth. Just about everything you said there is either flat wrong or "extremely misguided" at best.

    Turbocharging a 750i would be a riot, but would make the project shown here look like a walk in the park (and this project is a borderline miracle already). ZOMG it would be so much more difficult to package and get to run.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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  8. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    There are so many errors in such a short number of words, its' clear you are clearly way way out of your depth. Just about everything you said there is either flat wrong or "extremely misguided" at best.

    Turbocharging a 750i would be a riot, but would make the project shown here look like a walk in the park (and this project is a borderline miracle already). ZOMG it would be so much more difficult to package and get to run.
    But the V12 is just two I6s welded together w/ two ECUs, right? So couldn't you just do what the E36 turbo guys do? Easy!
    Nate J.

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  9. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    Jon, for the sake of others who are wanting to run the e-throttle, etc., can you please remind us what duties you have left to the DME, and what all exactly is being controlled by the ECUmaster EMU Black(?) ?
    The dme on my setup runs nothing really. Not having the vanos makes things a lot easier, but I imagine still possible.
    Only thing I haven't got round to sorting is the AC as we only have summers here for about a week lol
    Fuel pump is by standalone
    Viscous fan deleted replaced with electric fan controlled by standalone
    AC fan used by pwm channel also
    All coils, injectors wired to standalone
    Crank and single cam sensor wired to standalone
    Throttle body wired to standalone
    Throttle pedal wired to standalone

    I think reverse light switch is still wired to the dme to turn on PDC etc
    Oil level sensor is still wired to the dme but I've never tested functionality. (it might not work as I have can bus messages from DME to IKE disabled)

    Any more info needed let me know

  10. #1035
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    MS3x solves the ECU question, E-throttle is the real issue but I think adopting the M62 E-throttle might be possible. The V8 is the very good engine for the 740 but even with a giant turbo it still wont have the power to weight ratio of the 540i. With the ability to gain a full liter from 4.4 to 5.4 with the M73, then adding a large turbo would get me pretty close to the ratio Im looking for. 550hp is very easy for a V12, displacement means something even with a turbo, plus the prestige of a V12. All for $2k on eBay!

  11. #1036
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  12. #1037
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    I believe the $2k twin turbo 550 hp v12 build belongs in the Deadpool thread rather than here.


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  13. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggieleemorton View Post
    MS3x solves the ECU question
    What IS the question anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggieleemorton View Post
    E-throttle is the real issue
    "E-throttle" should be no issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggieleemorton View Post
    The V8 is the very good engine for the 740 but even with a giant turbo it still wont have the power to weight ratio of the 540i.
    Riiiigggght. Because one is a 4000lb luxury car, while the other is, a 4000lb luxury car.

    Again. Radically incorrect facts. In fact a "giant turbo" would MORE than compensate for the nearly insignificant weight difference between those 2 cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggieleemorton View Post
    With the ability to gain a full liter from 4.4 to 5.4
    "There's no replacement for displacement, mofos!"

    Wait. No. I just remembered. There is. Forced Induction is WAYYYY more than capable of being better than displacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggieleemorton View Post
    the M73, then adding a large turbo
    HAhahahahahahaaaaaa no wait really you're killing me.... hahha hahha OhIcan'tbreathemystomachhurtspleasestop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggieleemorton View Post
    550hp is very easy for a V12
    Very true.

    If that V12 is a sweet sweet S65 AMG motor. (Even an S63 doesn't make 550 I dont think...).

    Come to think of it retrofitting an S65 motor into an E38 is probably about easier than twin-turboing an M73 into the same chassis.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
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  14. #1039
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    Quote Originally Posted by douglawrence42 View Post
    I believe the $2k twin turbo 550 hp v12 build belongs in the Deadpool thread rather than here.
    SO RIGHT my friend! The time has come. Rejoice. Beers for everyone! A new Deadpool entry has been added! Two new entries for 2018. Its gonna be a good year, I can tell already.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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  15. #1040
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  16. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    Wow, this all took an entertaining turn!
    oh yeah it did.
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
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    Sorry to hijack but some clued in chaps following the thread.

    can I ask what pump & fuelling setup you are running?

    What fuel regulator? Standard fuel lines? Have you modified the fuel rail at all?

  18. #1043
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    No problem at all!

    Currently the fuel system consists of a Walbro 450LPH pump in the tank, pumping through all stock lines, filter (replaced obviously), regulator, and rails, to RC750cc saturated injectors. I have also run Siemens Deka 80s on the car (genuine ones), and they ran excellently also. With the setup using E85 through the Deka 80s, I was starting to run close to the limit on fuel flow at about 19.4psi. If I was going to push it harder on E85 I'm not sure if I would start by seeing what some Bosch 210s would do for me, or if I would go with the conventional thinking and change out lines and regulator...

    Seems like the next thing I'm going to do though is drop the boost some more and work on dialing in a 92/93 octane gasoline tune for a while.

  19. #1044
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    Thank you! It's hard to beat some real world experience.

    I have two 340Lph in tank pumps built into a 2L surge tank with trap doors in my tank, I've been told 1 of the pumps will be adequate, as two might warm the fuel too much?

    I had planned to run -6 fuel feed & return pipe and fittings but since recomended -8 (!!) pipework! Do you know standard internal bore?

    At the fuel rail end, I've Dekas to fit (direct fitment) 830cc I believe.

    is there anything I had need consider? I'm trying to find places for everything and weld all brackets etc before shell painting!

  20. #1045
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    No problem! Firstly when assessing your fuel system it's important to know how much power you hope to be able to make, and on what fuel. I'm no expert, but here is what I have gathered (much of which may not be perfectly accurate):

    1) a single Walbro 450 pushing E85 through -6 lines and factory rails seems to be sufficient for roughly/almost 700 crank horsepower. If you're running gasoline, the ceiling goes up by close to 30% if you're running sufficiently high octane gasoline. There's a guy over here who has made over 1,000 wheel horsepower on E85 through an inefficient TH400 trans, using three Walbro 450s pumping through a single -6 line. It really doesn't seem like -8 is needed unless your goals are very lofty.

    2) I haven't paid close attention to the factory lines, but they appear smaller than 3/8" hardline, so I suspect they may be 5/16". I think possibly 3/8" hardline measures 3/8" OD, while -6 lines may be 3/8" I.D.?? I'm REALLY unsure about that, but I can measure some when I remember to do it.

    3) My impression was that your car was intended to be a hill climb car, and I wouldn't expect that to have fuel heating as a concern, since most of the time you're driving it, you are at or near full throttle for much of the time, and runs are relatively short?? If it's a street car, then throw those thoughts out the window.

    4) It's nice to run a single pump in the surge tank, so if that pump messes up you absolutely know it, instead of losing one of a pair, and unwittingly leaning out while you don't notice. But if you're making enough power to need two, you need two! You can have the secondary one come on at a certain boost point via a pressure switch, or ECU trigger if you want to avoid the fuel heating issue.

    Sorry I don't have any direct experience with the 340s, but I hope maybe some of this blathering might be in some way useful to you! It's all I have.

  21. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    No problem! Firstly when assessing your fuel system it's important to know how much power you hope to be able to make, and on what fuel. I'm no expert, but here is what I have gathered (much of which may not be perfectly accurate):

    1) a single Walbro 450 pushing E85 through -6 lines and factory rails seems to be sufficient for roughly/almost 700 crank horsepower. If you're running gasoline, the ceiling goes up by close to 30% if you're running sufficiently high octane gasoline. There's a guy over here who has made over 1,000 wheel horsepower on E85 through an inefficient TH400 trans, using three Walbro 450s pumping through a single -6 line. It really doesn't seem like -8 is needed unless your goals are very lofty.

    2) I haven't paid close attention to the factory lines, but they appear smaller than 3/8" hardline, so I suspect they may be 5/16". I think possibly 3/8" hardline measures 3/8" OD, while -6 lines may be 3/8" I.D.?? I'm REALLY unsure about that, but I can measure some when I remember to do it.

    3) My impression was that your car was intended to be a hill climb car, and I wouldn't expect that to have fuel heating as a concern, since most of the time you're driving it, you are at or near full throttle for much of the time, and runs are relatively short?? If it's a street car, then throw those thoughts out the window.

    4) It's nice to run a single pump in the surge tank, so if that pump messes up you absolutely know it, instead of losing one of a pair, and unwittingly leaning out while you don't notice. But if you're making enough power to need two, you need two! You can have the secondary one come on at a certain boost point via a pressure switch, or ECU trigger if you want to avoid the fuel heating issue.

    Sorry I don't have any direct experience with the 340s, but I hope maybe some of this blathering might be in some way useful to you! It's all I have.
    Thank Again!

    -6 will be fine for me, if I could crack 500hp at the crank I would be very pleased, the car is light & short so more than enough for the chassis and me at 500/500. (-6 = 3/8" OD), also the fittings and pipe are cheaper, lighter & more compact.

    My Car is intended for short events & even at that I live in Ireland so it is never ambient warm! Although I would like to use the car for short blasts on the road, but that will never be a 110% drive, so again fuel temp will probably be unimportant.

    As you say, one pump is much easier to diagnose, I will leave mounting provision in the surge tank area should I want to install the secondary pump!

  22. #1047
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    Pump gas Thad? Did I read that right? Bigger road trips in the plans or whats the driver?

    I hope to see some good traps from you this spring! Pressures on!
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  23. #1048
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    LOOOOOOOTS of stuff going on here Chris!

    By the way, does anyone need any M62 engine parts? I have one very good block, cleaned and checked over by my local sprint car engine shop I use for machining and whatnot. They also build Porsche Alusil engines, so they know Alusil cylinders, and they say this is a good block. I have some good M62 cranks, a good M60 crank, and some heads. Good M62 heads and iffy M60 heads.

    Let me know if you need anything!

  24. #1049
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    So far I'm good on engine parts, but now that I'm writing this, I'm sure my ring gaps are closing and my block will fry.

    Soooo, what is this lots of stuff secret plans all about?
    98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!

  25. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by philly98540 View Post

    Soooo, what is this lots of stuff secret plans all about?
    Maybe unload all M62 parts and get some LS3 power. Slap a few turbos on it and your at 1000HP.
    (my '33 arrives in 5 days)

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