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Thread: DeadPool DEFEATED! -- 540i6 Front Mount Turbo Build

  1. #76
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    '03 540 M-Sport Sedan
    I built and ran a MS2 v3 Megasquirt kit, on a turbo'd MKIII Volkswagen, a few years ago. The build is a bit of a task, but that is really the easy part. The tuning requires a commitment to time, and ideally, dyno time.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by philly98540 View Post
    Yours will have AC and Dima's wont IIRC. AC FTW!
    Well, yeah, that is the plan. It's at least three stages of fabrication down the road to get to the A/C line(s). Hopefully it will be handled by spring, I've been making pretty decent progress over the last few weeks.

    As far as cold weather and whatnot, I just got in from moving snow around... This winter has made a turn for the worse here recently. Had to happen. I like to complain about it, but I won't let it slow me down too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by dburt86 View Post
    This project looks killer!!! I just happened to wonder over here because of my daily driver, and BAM. Im reading a thread with all of my favorite things. V8's, turbos, and standalones.

    Since im here, ill throw in my 2 cents. . .

    In my car, the turbos are rigid to the engine. The manifolds are all rigid, turbos bolted right to the ends of them and then they are braced from the collector to the heads. The only place i have flex sections are in the downpipes between the rad and front of the engine. I know our layouts are different (single/twin) but my point is that you dont need much.
    Glad you popped in, you will be a good source of discussions on this project!! Thanks for the info about (lack of) flex joints for accommodating heating/cooling changes. I'll finish the rest of the crossover tube without any flex sections. It's a flaw of my plan that I need a flex section in my up-pipe, but at this point it is set, so it is what it is I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by dburt86 View Post
    Whats your reservation with allowing the MS handle the ICV? 3 wire PWM is hands down the easiest method of idle control and very easy to setup.
    To be honest, I don't have any huge reservations about it other than I have only run stepper motor IACs with MS before, so the 3-wire types are new to me, and I'm just trying to simplify things the best I can, so I can actually get this sucker to the point of running. I've been really slacking badly on it for most of the last 7 to 8 months, and I want to knock it out now. Good to hear about the 3-wire IACs being user friendly.

    Quote Originally Posted by dburt86 View Post
    Is it possible to run the stock DME also? Leave the MAF in there, maybe resist it down so it doesnt see much and take control of everything else?
    I am planning to leave the DME in there for now, and let it do as much as I can let it do. It's a bit of an extra fabrication hassle to keep the MAF, but it's on my radar screen to do unless it is a super big pain. I'm not really sure it will necessary for me to keep the DME "MAF happy" though. If the MS is running the fuel and spark, and even the IAC, then I'm not thinking of anything else that I need the DME to be seeing a load signal from the MAF for. Am I missing something?

    Or did you mean something else as far as strategy for keeping the MAF and having the DME do something else other than what I'm saying?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftyIS View Post
    I built and ran a MS2 v3 Megasquirt kit, on a turbo'd MKIII Volkswagen, a few years ago. The build is a bit of a task, but that is really the easy part. The tuning requires a commitment to time, and ideally, dyno time.
    I agree with you conditionally.

    The condition being that I really enjoy the tuning part of things with TunerStudio/MegaSquirt. It's all right there at your fingertips, so easily accessible. So for someone like me, the build is a bit more daunting just because I don't get much joy from it -- It becomes a bit tedious for me. Having said that, I like to do it so that I learn something about electronics, and I know that the soldering etc, is all me (and I'm cheap, so I save a bit of money this way too).

    I have run MS1Extra, MS2Extra, and I was a beta tester for the initial MS3s. I frikkin' LOVE MS3.

  3. #78
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    98 328i, 79 911SC
    two simultaneous builds?
    you're a madman.
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  4. #79
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    Haha, well, the other one is on hold while this one is trying to get completed to some degree... So far the other one is more fun, so I'm kind of using it to hold myself hostage to knock this one out..

  5. #80
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    Twin turbo LS E36 M3
    ms3 is the balls. Have you seen the new Ultimate? So sick.

    Id def recommend having the MS do the idle. 3 wire PWM closed loop is lovely. If you have had good success with stepper (i hate stepper), then PWM will be a breeze for you.

    I guess im still a little unclear what you need the DME to do. I think the tach is CAN in these cars? I was just thinking youd want to keep the MAF happy to keep the SES light off, but that might not be a concern for you.

    I refuse to learn about stock DME tuning, because im stubborn. LOL
    328i Sedan Twin s366's, 6.0LS, TH400, MS3 Ultimate
    9.20 at 150 on 22psi

  6. #81
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    I did see the Ultimate. Looks so sweet! I just loved my regular MS3 though. The high rate SD card logging helped my find so many little niggles that didn't show up on regular datalogs through the serial port, and now when I'm logging at about 2.5Hz on RomRaider it seems pretty silly. I will say though, it mostly gets the job done, and I was able to use it to dial in a pretty good tune in the E36.

    Stepper IAC was a little bit of a challenge in my old MS3 setup, especially with boost trying to blow it open at times and getting it confused. But yeah, it was ok for me.

    There is still a little bit of me that is considering trying to tune this sucker with the DME, but it's just such a pain compared to MS. You are right to be stubborn on that point! Lol I will probably yank the bulb from the SES light (and others). The happiness of the stock systems of this car seem to be inversely proportional to my personal happiness, so hopefully it's going to end up pretty pissed off!

  7. #82
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Thad, found this ring gap article in the latest Hot Rod mag. You probably know most of it.
    Darn, it won't upload...to large. I'll email it to you.

  8. #83
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    That will be excellent Jim, thanks!! I need something to motivate me back out into the garage. It's currently 18 degrees here and blowing the snow sideways pretty hard. Strangely I have been finding indoor things to do haha.

  9. #84
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    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Just emailed it, 4 meg. 3 pages with color glossy pics to boot.
    18°F, ouch.......then I probably shouldn't tell you its sunny and 60 here.

  10. #85
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    Yeah, I have to live vicariously through you guys that are smart enough to escape the frozen north...

  11. #86
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    Can you run mega squirt in parallel with the stock ECU so you could pass emissions still?
    E90 335i
    On3 Performance top mount single turbo kit, Precision 6466 Turbo, ECS Tuning charge pipe, 7in FMIC, JB4 w/ MHD backend flash, Stage 3 fuel pump, Port injection, E85, some wheels that came w the car but are thick

    E39 540i (SOLD)
    6 spd swap, "Almost Nardo" Vinyl Wrap, JB Racing LTW flywheel, M5 clutch & control, BC
    Racing
    coilovers, cat back straight pipe, E60 SSK, ZHP shift knob, hard wired aux, Style 32 17", BFG G-force Sport Comp-2 tires, shadow-line trim, reenforced differential bushing, ATE Type 200, Hawk HP Plus pads, intake res delete, 10W40 M1, trans fill 50/50 Redline MT-90 & 75w90NS, solid shifter carrier bushing, pixel fix, red needles

  12. #87
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    It is possible, but with significant trickery. I'd really like to not discuss anything about emissions compliance in this thread though. Any other topic/off-topic is fantastic, Lol.

    Megasquirt is expressly for off-road use only.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    It is possible, but with significant trickery. I'd really like to not discuss anything about emissions compliance in this thread though. Any other topic/off-topic is fantastic, Lol.

    Megasquirt is expressly for off-road use only.
    Sorry, I was just interested in running it and was curious.
    E90 335i
    On3 Performance top mount single turbo kit, Precision 6466 Turbo, ECS Tuning charge pipe, 7in FMIC, JB4 w/ MHD backend flash, Stage 3 fuel pump, Port injection, E85, some wheels that came w the car but are thick

    E39 540i (SOLD)
    6 spd swap, "Almost Nardo" Vinyl Wrap, JB Racing LTW flywheel, M5 clutch & control, BC
    Racing
    coilovers, cat back straight pipe, E60 SSK, ZHP shift knob, hard wired aux, Style 32 17", BFG G-force Sport Comp-2 tires, shadow-line trim, reenforced differential bushing, ATE Type 200, Hawk HP Plus pads, intake res delete, 10W40 M1, trans fill 50/50 Redline MT-90 & 75w90NS, solid shifter carrier bushing, pixel fix, red needles

  14. #89
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    No emission or safety checks here.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    No emission or safety checks here.
    I'm 1/10 of a mile away from the end of emissions checks
    E90 335i
    On3 Performance top mount single turbo kit, Precision 6466 Turbo, ECS Tuning charge pipe, 7in FMIC, JB4 w/ MHD backend flash, Stage 3 fuel pump, Port injection, E85, some wheels that came w the car but are thick

    E39 540i (SOLD)
    6 spd swap, "Almost Nardo" Vinyl Wrap, JB Racing LTW flywheel, M5 clutch & control, BC
    Racing
    coilovers, cat back straight pipe, E60 SSK, ZHP shift knob, hard wired aux, Style 32 17", BFG G-force Sport Comp-2 tires, shadow-line trim, reenforced differential bushing, ATE Type 200, Hawk HP Plus pads, intake res delete, 10W40 M1, trans fill 50/50 Redline MT-90 & 75w90NS, solid shifter carrier bushing, pixel fix, red needles

  16. #91
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    NM sounds like a good free country Jim!

    dk, sounds like you need to register your car at a friend's house, haha..

  17. #92
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  18. #93
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    That's brand x. We don't like brand x. I thought the other forum was advocating a C4 for your automatic needs because of the removable bellhousing. Plus they can be built for all the hp you might make.

  19. #94
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    And whats that "thing" to the left of the tranny? A winter front end attachment for the car?

  20. #95
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    That thing is a horrible horrible thing Jim, only kept around to deal with another MORE HORRIBLE thing...

    Yes, brand X. By all accounts significantly stronger and more universal than the C4. If I keep this car it's probably because I've been able to make more power than the 420g or whatever it is can handle. AND, I'm sick and tired of clutches. I'm going to see if I can make this work. It will be interesting.

  21. #96
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    Well if you must go with a domestic automatic, consider the Chrysler torque flite. Its a much better trans in my opinion, and I know someone who is going to make an adapter to the BMW. Utilizing the stock BMW flex plate and starter of course.
    If I could post pics, I could show you how similar shapes are. Plus, an overdrive is available, along with an optional low gear set.
    But the best feature is no vacuum modulator. It uses throttle pressure to control shift hardness and kick down and since you're non vanos, its easy to hook up.
    Time tested, easy to tune shift points and able to handle Cummins diesels in trucks.
    Overdrive would allow you to run some 3.46 or 3.64 gears from the x5.

  22. #97
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    I'm pretty set on trying to make the TH400 work, especially since there is movement afoot to have a nice adapter kit available to mate them to the M5x, but I'm open to considering lots of crazy nonsense.

    Regarding torqueflites, I'm not sure which of them had O/D unless you are referring to the 42RE style of transmissions. Were those called torqueflites? At any rate, I worked with the guy who writes most of the good code for the megasquirt stuff (James Murray), on a MS trans controller for the 41TE. I think that trans requires a similar control strategy to most of the chrysler transmissions of that era, and I can honestly say it isn't easy to get them to work correctly. Everything is clutch to clutch, which sounds cool, but there's a really funky double shifting progression required to get the car down into 1st gear that is really difficult to handle.

    After a ton of work I was able to use a different aftermarket trans controller to run the 41TE in my old dogvan, but it was funky, and not what I would call something I would want to rely on at all. BUT, that may not even be what you're talking about.

    By the way, it's fairly standard stuff to cut the bellhousing off of a TH400 and run an adapter ring that bolts a different bellhousing to the front of the pump. I'm giving that a look for one of the options for this setup, using an M62 bellhousing off of a 5hp24 trans. For that to work the adapter ring would have to avoid pushing the bellhousing so far forward that it would impede the converter correctly seating into the trans.

    My thought for running a trans with O/D if I ever got to that point would be to use whatever adapter setup I ended up with for the TH400, and apply it to a 4L80e. Those are basically an electronically controlled TH400 with an overdrive tacked on from what I understand, and the megasquirt trans control software runs them extremely well. With nothing more than a shift kit, many junkyard 4L80e transmissions are handling 600-800RWHP on an extended basis.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just to add a little note about adapting this trans, my first preference would be to create a plate to adapt between the TH400 bellhousing and the engine, but the M62 has the starter in a rather difficult spot for the adapter plate, since it kind of directly interferes with one of the locating dowels for the trans...

    Luckily, I'm not dead set on getting the slushbox in the car prior to trying to run it with the turbo setup. One option I'm leaning toward pretty heavily is to avoid fixing up much of what I really should fix up on this engine (leaks on top of leaks, of course), and just trying to get the turbo setup running as soon as I am able. After that I can reassess my plan for the whole thing, pull the engine, delete the ABS mess, finally install my M5 steering box, etc.

  23. #98
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    As I said, using the bmw starter and flex plate/ ring gear. Torque flight is all hydraulic control except the two wire button for overdrive, not one of those late model electronic ones.
    I get it that the "experts" and aftermarket gear everything towards Chevy parts as that's what the common folk want.
    The tall snout of the 5hp24 converter compared to other converters gives me enough material height to make an adapter plate. So a complete stock trans can be swapped in should you have a failure on a road trip in Texas.

  24. #99
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    Yeah, I get you on that first part, I just meant that I wasn't sure if you knew that was also fairly common for the cast bellhousing trannys also by cutting off the bell. So what torqueflite are you talking about that's all hydro with only an e-controlled O/D? One of that that can handle some serious torque would be very interesting. Is it something commonly found in JYs?

    I'd assume PTC could make one of their fancy steel stator 9.5" converters for that setup, but it wouldn't be so universal to sell or whatever down the road... You wouldn't happen to have a 5hp24 bell laying around that I could buy off you at a friendly price would you? Haha

    Do you know how different the dimensions are for the 5hp30 converter to the 5hp24 converter? I have a 5hp30 converter here, but I thought it looked from the pictures I see on the internet like the 5hp24 converter would be a bit different in dimensions. Is the 5hp24 still a 4x265mm bolt pattern converter/flexplate?

  25. #100
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    Oh if I could post pictures. I'm sure it will be taken care of soon. How about 1960 to 95 small blocks. Overdrive from 85-95. 96 up are controlled by the dme. Don't know what the JY shopping is like for you but yes very common. And yes, they can handle 800 hp and big torque. And torque converter selection is vast.
    Now obviously I'm heavily biased, as the rest of my fleet is mopar. And my plan for a m62 e body will happen with one of the improved motors.
    I could probably round up a bellhousing cause the pick n pulls are full of bmws. When I see a trans pulled, I'll let you know. Never had a 5hp30 so I'd have to measure a flex plate at the shop

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