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Thread: DeadPool DEFEATED! -- 540i6 Front Mount Turbo Build

  1. #26
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    Looking great so far! I applaud you for you perseverance.

    Perhaps this will be done for the next RVAE34fest..
    Last edited by RVAE34; 11-27-2016 at 11:33 AM.

  2. #27
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    Well, that would be great if it is! When are you looking at?

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    Spring

  4. #29
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    Well, I doubt I will have a decent tune developed by then even if the mechanicals and electronicals are complete, but anything is possible.

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    I've been thinking about a turbo for a while and have some cardboard fab done. I will be interested to see how you tune since you are prevanos too
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  6. #31
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    More great progress! This might actually work.
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  7. #32
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    Alright, the easy part is done, now it's time to get back under the car and start fitting this ends of this sucker to the crossover pipe on the short end, and the up-pipe to the turbo on the long end. This thing isn't pretty, but it will be very functional, and that is really all I was going for this time.

    ManifoldFinished1.jpg

    ManifoldFinished2.jpg

    I guess I haven't made a secret of the fact that I've never actually enjoyed working on the 540. Hopefully I can change that now, and figure out a way to start enjoying it... Lol
    Last edited by tptrsn; 11-27-2016 at 08:23 PM.

  8. #33
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    Looks good, hope the drivers side will clear the steering box.
    Last edited by JimLev; 11-27-2016 at 10:20 PM.

  9. #34
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    Jim, the driver's side primaries are factory stock, so that part is all good!

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Msport540 View Post
    There are alot of videos of turbo m62's on youtube, my fav has to be the spenna twin scroll putting down 770hp at the crank which was built for a e39 wagon.
    You talking about this video?:



    I see mostly high 500s to about 600kW at around 200-220ish kPa manifold pressure. 600kW converts to about 804hp according to my phone, and that is hub horsepower... I'm not well versed in hub horsepower, I'm guessing there is a bit more lost between the hub and the roller/ground though friction, inertia, etc... Around 900 at the crank? Anyone know how to shed some light on this?

    Also, I see the spark plug wires are going to a coilpack or something, does anyone have info about this engine mechanical setup and the engine control?

  11. #36
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    T - I've done all my dyno runs on hub dynos. More consistent and reliable for all the obv than rollers. BTW unless the dyno software can detect slip (ie RPM changes non linearly w rollers) then some slip helps a roller dyno "make numbers" - ie it's like slipping a clutch, or a TC on an auto. Anyway...

    Yeah plug wires look funny. Plasma maybe? Used to know an Audi guy who ran plasma spark, and made provable gains with it. Required basically a piggy back spark processor but it was cool tech. That's a few years ago when it was real out there too, must be easier now...
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    You talking about this video?:



    I see mostly high 500s to about 600kW at around 200-220ish kPa manifold pressure. 600kW converts to about 804hp according to my phone, and that is hub horsepower... I'm not well versed in hub horsepower, I'm guessing there is a bit more lost between the hub and the roller/ground though friction, inertia, etc... Around 900 at the crank? Anyone know how to shed some light on this?

    Also, I see the spark plug wires are going to a coilpack or something, does anyone have info about this engine mechanical setup and the engine control?
    Yeah thats 1 of 2 videos for that motor, the other vid is with it installed in the wagon.
    Renting: M62 G.A.S. Master timing tool kit & M62 KTC crankshaft holding tool

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    T - I've done all my dyno runs on hub dynos. More consistent and reliable for all the obv than rollers. BTW unless the dyno software can detect slip (ie RPM changes non linearly w rollers) then some slip helps a roller dyno "make numbers" - ie it's like slipping a clutch, or a TC on an auto. Anyway...
    Well, not that it matters a ton since we don't seem to have any information about what was done to this engine to prepare it for the turbos, and we also don't seem to have any information about how it worked out in the car, but do you know basically what loss/absorption factors are usually used for a hub dyno? Maybe a bit less than the good ole' 15% standard for rollers? Or more than 15% because of the lack of advantage from slippage on the roller?

    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Yeah plug wires look funny. Plasma maybe? Used to know an Audi guy who ran plasma spark, and made provable gains with it. Required basically a piggy back spark processor but it was cool tech. That's a few years ago when it was real out there too, must be easier now...
    That IS interesting! Hardly seems necessary for 228kPa in this case, but who knows I was thinking more like EDIS or something in this case...

    Quote Originally Posted by Msport540 View Post
    Yeah thats 1 of 2 videos for that motor, the other vid is with it installed in the wagon.
    If I'm thinking of the correct other video, it didn't show anything but the engine running in the wagon, and sounding horrible for some reason?

  14. #39
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    That's a bunch of plumbing for sure. Think you can fit all of that into your E39 Thad? You don't need fenders or a hood, do you?
    Not that it matters much, did you notice at the 10, 15, and 20 sec mark the thermocouples on the turbos? They are type K, (yellow plug) and are connected to a type R (green) connector and wire. That will introduce a temperature error. Could be 10-20 deg error, not sure if that small error amounts to much.

  15. #40
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    Interesting info on the thermocouples Jim! Should I find myself messing with any of that stuff, now I know who to bother to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong.

    They somehow did manage to fit that into an E39 wagon with fenders and a hood I guess Jim. Not sure how, haha..

    My 540 is still intended to be a somewhat "nice" car with the turbo setup on it, with functional A/C too! At this point I think I can make everything work with my much more compact setup, but today will be informative as I get the car back up in the air and start working on tying the manifold inlet and outlet together with the crossover pipe and up-pipe. Up-pipe first I think, since I'm still waiting on the flex pipe for the crossover.

    I'm a little bit up in the air as to whether I even really need the flex pipe on the crossover though, since both ends of it will be attached to the engine. I was just intending to use one to allow for reduction of stress as the whole system heats and cools...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Passenger side flow-through manifold is in the car! For the first of many times in and out of the car I'm afraid... I did have to lift the engine to get it in there, but the clearances around it all look good. Time to get some V-bands on the ends of it and be done taking it in and out of the car for a while, until it's time to take it off for coating or wrapping.

    Thank goodness for my mockup motor and extra head for welding the manifold. Trying to do all of everything on the car that I've done up to this point would have been a complete nightmare.

  16. #41
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    pishurs mah dood, we need pishurs.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    pishurs mah dood, we need pishurs.
    Indeed!!

    I did make some decent progress yesterday. Actually stayed in the garage working right through workout time, so I'm feeling a bit slobby, but happy to have gotten the manifold V-bands tacked on, and the up-pipe all tacked together before I called it a night. I didn't get pics of everything yet, but here is what I did get. Oh [WARNING: EXTREME LEVELS OF GRIME AHEAD]. For those of you with sensitive eyeballs, avert your gaze while you still can!! Lol

    First, the passenger side manifold in the car for the first time, before I figured out where I wanted to cut the front and rear stubs for the V-bands:

    PassHeaderInCarUncut.jpg

    Here's what she looks like with the ends cut off and V-bands tacked on:

    PassHeader-VBandsTackedOn.jpg

    And here are a couple different angles of the beginning of the up-pipe (just the V-band and flex). You can see that I really needed a 4" long flex, but I made this work in the spirit of my hero Matt Happel the Sloppy Mechanic:

    UpPipeFlexFromBottom.jpg

    UpPipeFlexFromLowerFront.jpg

    That's all I have for pictures from yesterday. With any luck, today I will have the up-pipe all finish welded and fit-checked post welding, and then I will work more on the crossover pipe. I'm still not positive if I want to include a flex tube in that, and it hasn't arrived yet... I may just build the rest of the crossover and see how well I can make it fit without a flex piece in it at all. If it seems happy, maybe I'll just let it be without one...

  18. #43
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    Looks promising there Thad! Nice progress. I would think without a flex on the crossover, you'll get some stresses that may begin to cause some weld damage after some stress cycles. It may be fine though, but I'm no expert on such. The crossover will get to 1300 F or so when your beating on it. There may be enough flex in the big U to take it though. Not sure. Is the issue fitting the flex in some place?
    98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!

  19. #44
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    Nice cribs, son. That is kickin it old school. You need to get something like a rusted out 1972 Barracuda sittin on those puppies out in the back yard. Ha ha... hain't seen somebody w/ a crib setup in a long time.
    On the srsly tho good for doing 'loaded suspension' work tho for sure.

    Lookin good mang.

    Flexomatic: Yeah I agree w your prev comments. Don't need the flexpipe and it takes up too much space, as long as you can get it all precision located for the V-band (i.e. last welds tacked on-block), obv the flex will make it slightly easier to mate up and mount everything and forgiving of a tiny misalignment in fabrication. Also in the negative column for the Flexer - I used to go through one of those about every 18-24mos on my DD Audi. When in a high heat downpipe situation (and yours is pre-turbo so, even worse....) they like to burn out, even quality ones.

    Duder is that seriously a half-painted valve cover on only redone on the front part? Ghetto-tastic! Please tell me you found it that way.

    I just emailed Jim yesterday that my blown upper timing covers had left an embarrassing mess disaster which is taking me forever to clean up. Looks pretty much like what you got there. No pix cuz it's embareazzing. Nasty rasty. You oughter take care of that while everything is being wrenched. FWIW I did find that some bolts where very lightly torqued, also including my oil pan, so I have a feeling I mighta been able to at least slow the flow a bit had I looked into it. Gotta go buy more brake cleaner and strap on my VOC face mask and go back at it later today. Nasty job but feels good to see once you get it cleaned up. Which takes a long time. And sucks ballzoids.

    That is the best attempt at squeezing in turbo piping I've seen so far. Def better than the whacko 'turbos breathing through holes in the frame rails' M5. The biggest concern I still have is space for the turbo up top and heat management and all that, but lets cross that bridge when you come to it.

    You can always go with a sweet out-the-hood solution if you need to. Here's some sweet out-the-hood jobs to give you some ideas...














    OK so the last few aren't so bad...
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by philly98540 View Post
    Is the issue fitting the flex in some place?
    Well, I think I can fit the flex in an appropriate spot to give me the movement I need for fitting up the crossover tube. The good parts of having it in the system are the expansion as you mentioned, but also the fact that final welding always distorts the part some unless you do it with the part bolted in place (which I don't want to do), and the flex will build in the ability to have a nice stress-free fit. The problems with it that lead me toward possibly building the rest of the crossover today without it are two:
    1) It hasn't arrived yet. I always buy cheap crap from eBay, and even when it's not getting shipped directly from China (this part isn't), it can be rather slow.
    2) There is some concern about using flex tubes in the pressurized hotside of a turbo system (pre-turbo). The ones I'm using have the "tubo spec" interlock liner in them, but even those are a bit shaky for this application. Still, in the whole scheme of things with respect to the spectrum of turbos, I don't plan to have high temps or high pressures in this hotside. And if something gets screwed up, I can fix it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    You can always go with a sweet out-the-hood solution if you need to. Here's some sweet out-the-hood jobs to give you some ideas...
    Dude! Don't tempt me!

    I actually have a mega-awesome completely ridiculous idea for the LRS along those lines...

    As far as the valve cover, it's just a shadow from one of the lights (that have different color temps). The valve covers are the ONLY clean and nice part of the engine. I had them powder coated silver 5-ish years ago when I did the valleypan, VC gaskets, etc. These engines are designed to let out fluid I think, so you just keep them on a steady drip of new stuff.... Cuz' the germans are smart, and they certainly wouldn't just completely screw up with their design or anything...

    Currently I'm not sure if I'm going to work on cleanup and re-sealing the engine right now, or if I'm just going to keep powering through on this turbo setup, and then cleanup the engine when I pop it out for whatever reason I pop it out (there will be one, of that I'm pretty sure).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Don't need the flexpipe and it takes up too much space, as long as you can get it all precision located for the V-band (i.e. last welds tacked on-block), obv the flex will make it slightly easier to mate up and mount everything and forgiving of a tiny misalignment in fabrication.
    I can definitely tack it up on the car, so it will just be the distortion from final weld heat shrinkage pulling things out of shape that will be a PITA, but I'll give it a shot... Seems like the best idea. Thanks for the thoughts!

  21. #46
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    Eww those welds are so gross. You will lose 50hp/pipe.



  22. #47
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    YEah, but that's good, cuz otherwise I'd have 200hp too much! All by design! Lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post


    So much want. Haha

  23. #48
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    Dima has just been making progress on his E35 540 turbo too... Seems a lot like a similar approach... He's shooting a bit less for DD & AC type of thing but still similar crossover idea...

    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...0#post29514560
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  24. #49
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    Yeah, I've been cyberstalking that build for a long time. I'm totally thinking about copying how he used the ASC elbow...

    I made good progress today, but no pics yet. Up-pipe final welded and fits like a glove. Good progress on crossover.

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