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Thread: DeadPool DEFEATED! -- 540i6 Front Mount Turbo Build

  1. #1226
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    Thad, you're the maniac we need.
    i think my car will be a lot more fun after today.
    you'll just have to tune in and find out why....
    http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
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    instant grams: doktor_b

  2. #1227
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    Thanks DokB!

    And DAMN, you've been doing work!!! I'm not sure why, but I have gradually stopped getting notifications from several forums. Started with YellowBullet, then must have been Pelican, and now BF.c. Not sure what is going on, but I don't fight it because I need to spend more time doing work like you!

    At any rate, I am tuned back in.

  3. #1228
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    thanks! i only work on it 1-1.5 days every two weeks. but like all builds, motivation and enthusiasm are streaky. took today off to get the tub sealed up so i can start getting it back together. there's a huge mental block for me when i look at a dismantled jalopy that needs more time and money than i have to offer. i'm hoping it being one color and going back together will help me overcome that block and rekindle my enthusiasm.
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  4. #1229
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    Quote Originally Posted by doktor b View Post
    thanks! i only work on it 1-1.5 days every two weeks. but like all builds, motivation and enthusiasm are streaky. took today off to get the tub sealed up so i can start getting it back together. there's a huge mental block for me when i look at a dismantled jalopy that needs more time and money than i have to offer. i'm hoping it being one color and going back together will help me overcome that block and rekindle my enthusiasm.
    It definitely just took a big step in the right direction, that color even looks great already. Nice work my man!!!

  5. #1230
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    Awwwwdamn... I've got an itch to head on out to the drag strip today and see if the increased power from the tuning at the dyno translates into some trap speed improvement...

    And then assuming it does translate into trap speed improvement, I've also got a hankerin' to make things really dumb by wiring the clutch switch signal into the MS3 for some 2-step and flat shift action.

    To cap off all of that, I've got a bit of an inclination to setup the drifty brake for this beast and take it to the next drift event in a couple of weeks and see how it does with all of the tweaks on it.

    Just when I really kind of need to sell it. Of course..

  6. #1231
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    Go BIG or go home!
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  7. #1232
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    Oh damn Thad, I hear you knocking on my door. Set the bar brother!

    AFR lean out may be the ticket!
    98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!

  8. #1233
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    I don't feel like today is the day to set the bar, with the amount of the quarter mile that I spend in no boost or less-than-full-boost in order to baby the clutch. But if I can inch a little closer to the bar today while driving the same as I have been, I'd be happy.

    The new clutch and 2-step/flat shift should allow me to have some boost at the line, and then maintain boost the entire way through the quarter. Plus it would sound cool. Lol

    But yes, it definitely seems like I was leaving more power on the table than I thought I was with my fat E85 AFRs. It's actually fully backed up by what I found when tuning the LRS before I had the turbo on it. I picked up a very significant percentage of power by leaning out the E85 AFRs to about 11.7:1. The guy who was helping me on the dyno (who is trapping in the mid-170s with factory LS bottom end parts with E85 from the pump) told me that the limits of E85 are way higher than I thought they were, and the 11.7 target really holds well up to insane power levels. Of course the exact best AFR varies from setup to setup, but something in that range will generally be good.

    From tuning gasoline setups over the years, I thought it would follow to E85 that there are sufficient benefits to shooting for 11-flat when kind of pushing what we think are the limits of a stock engine. With gasoline it seems that the safety margin is good in that range because of in-cylinder cooling, and the power loss is fairly small.

    Seems like with E85 the safety margin is very good even when you go a little leaner than best torque, and the power loss is more significant than I thought from being on the fat side. I still have a bit of fat to carve out of the high RPM part of the map, so possibly there is still a bit more of that massive torque drop at the top end that I can get rid of.. We shall see.

  9. #1234
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    Did a couple of 12.7s, and a high 117 that I'm just going to refer to as a 118, lol.. Baby steps I guess.

  10. #1235
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    Nice going Thad. A new clutch and pressure plate (get the M5 one) along with a few more pounds of boost and you'll be in the high 11's, then you can stop working on it.

  11. #1236
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    Thanks Jim!

    I am currently on an M5 pressure plate though, with a cheap 6-puck cerametallic (?) clutch. And it's a funny deal. I can't really say anything bad about the combo... Every once in a while I completely exceed the limits of the clutch (with this pressure plate at least), but then it comes back around and soaks up a whole bunch more abuse. It's pretty impressive really. The truth is that I have become a pretty big fan of 6-puck clutches overall. This one at least is not bad for driveability, and it does some work!

    But I do have a better setup on the way.

  12. #1237
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    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    When I changed my clutch and PP (used stock parts) I filed down the mounting surface of the PP where it touches the flywheel. I did this so there would be more pressure on the clutch disc. I don't really remember how much I took off, that was about 10 years ago, my clutch is still holding up and not slipping.

  13. #1238
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    I'd say we're about equal now based temps. It was cooler when I did my runs. Congrats. Must be feeling pretty good now.
    98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!

  14. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by philly98540 View Post
    I'd say we're about equal now based temps. It was cooler when I did my runs. Congrats. Must be feeling pretty good now.
    Sounds like you need a trip to the track so we can really know! Lol The weather last night wasn't too bad, but not great. It was only around 70 I think when I made my high 117s runs, but it had to be nearly 100% humidity. There had been a rain delay and it took about 3 hours to dry the track because the air was just saturated.

    At any rate, it does feel very good now, to the point that even an idiot like me enjoys it. But I still suspect your car may accelerate just a hair stronger. Maybe we need to meet somewhere in western PA or eastern Ohio and race em!

  15. #1240
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    Trying to sell this car has been nothing short of comical, or if you're a person with an annoyance threshold that is lower than "extra-high" like mine, I guess you would call it something less charitable than "comical." People seem to really want the car, but then can't pull the trigger and vanish. Or more commonly, owners of regular 540s who would be great candidates for the deadpool it seems want to get all the information from me of how to "turbo their current 540 cuz they always wanted to"... Inevitably this leads to be explaining everything that adds up to these two conclusions:

    1) They simply aren't even close to being able to pull off a project like this

    2) If they were able to do it, they'd be WAAAAY money ahead to just buy my car and have two 540s (or sell theirs of course)

    And there has been at least one reasonable potential buyer who just had life stuff get in the way of proceeding with the process toward buying.

    Anyway, I still have the Luxury Hooligan 540turbo (henceforth to be referred to as the "540LHT" ), and it's better than ever, so I decided I should give it a better chance at doing some good drifting next weekend. Consequently, I started off by making this:

    DriftyHandle Pass Side-Small.jpg

    DriftyHandle Driver's Side-Small.jpg

    Not my prettiest welding, but let's call it a prototype. I wasn't really sure how I wanted to design it, so I just had to start somewhere. This version uses a little "pin" (shortened and blunted 4-penny nail) to hold the release button in the compressed state other than when the parking brake is needed for parking. I wanted a tiny little clevis pin with a D-wire retainer, but I didn't see any of those smaller than 1/4" diameter at the hardware store, so I went this way. Also, the handle is held onto the factory handle skeleton by two little set screws at the rear part of the handle. They are hidden by the boot, but they look fine even if they were visible.

    On the upside, I very carefully positioned the handle so that when I drop my hand down from the steering wheel, the handle is exactly where my hand falls. In that respect it's way better than my one in the other car. Feels fantastic!

    Using the knowledge I've gathered from similar stupidity with the LRS E36, I went through the parking brakes yesterday to get them properly adjusted, and see what all parts need to be replaced for reliably handling the impending abuse. One of the friction surfaces on the shoes was cracked, so I ordered some new Stoptech shoes, and some new rotors to make everything nice. Hopefully they will arrive in time for me to install them before next weekend.

    The other thing I did for a trial run was pull off the M5 rear sway bar. The car was super snappy on transitions last time I had it out with the rear bar on it, and it is normal to drift without one. I'm hoping the lack of the rear bar will calm the transitions a bit. Anyway, I'm going to try to find an opportunity to test out the setup a little bit before drifting day(s) come around.

  16. #1241
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    Time to by stock in tires I guess.
    Those welds look better than my nickel puddles!

  17. #1242
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  18. #1243
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    The other thing I did for a trial run was pull off the M5 rear sway bar. The car was super snappy on transitions last time I had it out with the rear bar on it, and it is normal to drift without one. I'm hoping the lack of the rear bar will calm the transitions a bit. Anyway, I'm going to try to find an opportunity to test out the setup a little bit before drifting day(s) come around.
    I don't recall where I heard it, but aren't drift cars setup to actually understeer severely?
    Nate J.

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  19. #1244
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    Quote Originally Posted by computiNATEor View Post
    I don't recall where I heard it, but aren't drift cars setup to actually understeer severely?
    Interesting question! The serious drift cars with a lot of power are definitely setup to have a lot of "rear grip in drift." I think that would probably translate into understeer for normal grip driving, but I never really hear or see anyone talking about them in those terms... Understeer is a very dirty word in drifting, because it usually equates to having the rear end grip up when you don't want it to, which causes the front end to wash out toward the outside of the corner and often slam into a wall or what have you.

    So basically I think the answer to the question is yes, but the way the cars are used, it doesn't really manifest itself that way. The way it works in drifting is that when you have a lot of rear grip, and a lot of power, you can really control the car better in drift to allow you to get right up on someone's door during tandem. In the lead position a lot of rear grip gives you the ability to get through the course with more speed, making it hard for the follow driver to gain proximity on you.

    For a total hack/newb drifter like me, I can tell you that sometimes a bit of extra rear grip can be handy to help with transitions, and allow for the ability to save the car from spinning out, or to stay in drift while slowing for a tighter upcoming corner (often using left foot braking).

  20. #1245
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    Ok, first test drive complete, with a beautiful drift onto an entrance ramp courtesy of initiating with the new handle. Works great! A couple little fine tunings and disable the e-brake dinger, and this sucker is ready to rip.

  21. #1246
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    Nice work Thad. Let the shenanigans commence.
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  22. #1247
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    Quote Originally Posted by philly98540 View Post
    Let the shenanigans commence.
    Indeed sir, indeed.

  23. #1248
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    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Multiple LOLs!

    Yeah the "deadpooltard magnet" factor is utterly unsurprising! I get the same deal w Manny conversions. Prob about 25% are legit guys likely to follow through, the rest are a mix of totally-unqualified for the job, or big-talking-do-nothings, or just all-around weirdos.

    Yeah even as a non drifter I can confirm of the rear bar delete thing. Got buds who do that. I think it's partially about purely reducing grip a little but maybe there's a factor of the bar loading and "unloading" as you go in and out of drift that delinearizes the roll and traction patch? It is after all just a real long torsion spring and it must get fairly "snap unloaded" as the tires release and some of the body roll releases...
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  24. #1249
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Yeah even as a non drifter I can confirm of the rear bar delete thing. Got buds who do that. I think it's partially about purely reducing grip a little but maybe there's a factor of the bar loading and "unloading" as you go in and out of drift that delinearizes the roll and traction patch? It is after all just a real long torsion spring and it must get fairly "snap unloaded" as the tires release and some of the body roll releases...
    Interesting. While I think I slightly prefer the feel of the 540 with the M5 rear bar installed in most normal cases of just driving around and slicing through some corners, I think the reason I prefer it is solely because of the the extra precision of controlling the overall body roll. But that is something that can also be mostly achieved by adding roll stiffness to the front, which is why you see the CP cars in autocrosses lifting the inside front tire off the ground when exiting corners. Despite my preference for the basic feel of the car with the rear bar on, I have ended up without a rear bar on most of my RWD cars I've ever played with.

    For most of my RWD cars prior to organized drift days (a necessary distinction, as I've been drifting everything I've ever operated to the greatest extent possible since before I could drive a car--just didn't know drifting was a thing way back when), my reason for running without a rear bar has been to assist with getting power down coming out of corners.

    It is interesting to anyone else that possibly the reason to remove the rear bar is BOTH to help put power down when grip driving, and also to drift better? Maybe it means nothing, but it seems a bit ironic to me at first glance. Or maybe it's all perfectly sensible, and the truth is simply that the necessity of rear sway bars is much more limited in application than I have always thought of them as being...

  25. #1250
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    Hope everyone had a good 4th of July!!

    Gotta say I enjoyed the heck out of my 'Merica day, that I spent a good chunk of tuning a drift car:

    https://www.facebook.com/bailey.birr...813649177/?t=1

    It looks like that video probably won't be viewable thanks to bookface stuff, but there should be another one later that hopefully will be available.

    Anyway, the pertinent part of yesterday's adventure for this group is that it was the first road trip I took in the 540 since I followed GearGrinder's idea of using some urethane window weld to seal my moonroof in place. I'd have to say it transformed the car! The biggest problem I have with it now is that at a hundred or so, the wind noise is very minimal. There is little to no sensation of hauling Azz. Lol.

    It was a fantastic E39 day for sure, the likes of which I would have had a while ago if not for people claiming they wanted to buy the car, and saying that they would want to fix the sunroof, "so please don't seal it shut"...

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