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Thread: I can not get remote key function to work (and no it's not initialization issue)

  1. #26
    Join Date
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    11/98 E39 535i V8 M62TU
    They were very nice and checked with other key free of charge.
    Let's hope the key was not off an E60/E61 up to 9/2005. Looks the same, guts are different.
    Martin Voigts
    BMW cars indy and locksmith
    1997 E36 318iS Sierrarot
    2012 Ford Mondeo

  2. #27
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    Fx323i, to answer your questions:

    Yes I did have some errors in EWS, IKE and ZKE but I cleared them already and none of them came back. I forgot what they were but none of them had seemingly anything to do with my problem although I'm aware that you might be right and one of them could be the culprit.

    I've been using P.A.Soft and AutoEnginuity and the one error I remember was something like: Key #4 out of range. That was read about few months ago through AutoEnginuity and cleared. It never came back so I disregarded it.

    Since I was at dealer today I imagine the theory of something working on same frequency is out since they tried it with known working key.

    As you said, INPA could probably do more but my real strength are mechanics while electronics are simply not my thing.

    As much I hate to spend $130, I'd request the same technician and there is the good chance he'd either fix it or lead me in the right direction.

    This is starting to take a lot of my time and with 3 aging BMW's I have number of projects waiting. Also, if I was to add up all the the work I did for money working at people BMW's plus me working on 3 off mine, we're talking easily $15k+ I've saved over the years so I might just spend the money and possibly solve the issue.

    My hope is that GT1 might be able to find some sort of internal error in GM when it comes to relation with ZKE and simply reboot connection or something like that.

    Again, thanks a bunch to you and Qsilver7 but I'm tired of the issue.

    Yesterday, I tore up the area behind the seat to check the wiring to another FZV component and that wasn't fun.
    Last edited by BMW540san; 11-02-2016 at 05:32 PM.

  3. #28
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    This seems to be a bit ghostbusting now.

    About the code in EWS, this was probably fault 99 toleration of changing code increased with key # X, where X probably was not 4 as you did not have that key yet (although, some diagnostic systems number the keys 1 to 10, other like PA soft number them 0 to 9 so it might be that case). This has nothing to do with the remote. The rolling code in the key was a bit off at some point, probably due to a weak car battery. As it still is starting the car, it is not the reason of your problems.

    As a last shot, I would try to disconnect the car's battery from both positive and negative pole, and shorted the + and - cables together for 10 minutes (not touching the battery obviously, as this would mean some fire and smoke). This will discharge the capacitors all over the car and it also sometimes resets the bus problems. After reattaching the battery, I would try pairing again. Worth a shot. And one last thing - I have quite an experience with the diamond keys and it might be important, where exactly do you press and hold the unlock button. I suggest pressing and holding the furthest from the central locking button itself. If you saw the construction of the buttons touching the microswitches on the board, you would see that pressing the buttons in the center might cause pressing unlock and lock at the very same moment. This would cause the initialization procedure to fail. These are two last thoughts I have, when not seeing the actual car.

    For a solution, also recoding the GM might work.
    Martin Voigts
    BMW cars indy and locksmith
    1997 E36 318iS Sierrarot
    2012 Ford Mondeo

  4. #29
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    I will try both and thank you for continuing help.
    I know what you mean by buttons since I've gutted diamond key before.
    I'm hoping that dealer might be able to help since they of course have capability to reset GM.
    Even if I had the means, I'd be hesitant to do that myself.

  5. #30
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    I went digging around as I also have an issue with one car (E46 convertible) regarding the remote pairing with something (from the list below) interfering with the signal. This is what I have found and what the official documentation states.

    According to this, I would give it a shot and try to hold the key within 10 cm range from the remote antenna. You might need to use another person as the antenna is far away from the driver's seat and the door should not be operated during the initialization procedure.
    Sources of disturbance in radio remote control operation

    When operating properly, the remote control has a range of approx. 15 m.
    Legal requirements have defined the frequency range for radio remote control operation to be 433.92 MHz or 315 MHz (e.g. USA, Canada, Australia).
    A series of radio-based systems operate within this frequency range so that they can mutually interfere with each other under certain physical conditions.
    Interference caused by these transmitters can result in a reduction in range or in temporary complete failure of the radio remote control.
    Interference sources

    The following devices can disrupt operation of the radio remote control:

    • Cordless headphones (headset for radio systems)
    • Radio-based devices, radio remote controls
    • Radio modems
    • Telemetry transmitters, e.g. weather stations with external temperature sensors
    • Alarm systems with radio monitoring
    • Garage door openers (radio systems)
    • Remote controlled socket outlets
    • Radio-based chime systems
    • TV systems

    Fault detection

    As a rule, an interference transmitter is active if the remote control does not function at all or temporarily in certain locations.
    Under certain circumstances, the interference transmitter can be suppressed by holding the key-chain transmitter very close to the antenna (at a distance of approx. 10 cm).
    No technical remedy is possible in this case. Vehicle customers should be informed of these technical conditions.
    Martin Voigts
    BMW cars indy and locksmith
    1997 E36 318iS Sierrarot
    2012 Ford Mondeo

  6. #31
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    Fx323i,

    I've tried everything you suggested and no change.

    I don't know if this bit of information helps but about a month ago while exiting and locking the car and about to walk away, my wife realized that all windows and sunroof opened. Of course, I'm aware of convenience feature on key which can do that by pressing unlock button 2nd time and hold it.

    This incident happened with the old remote diamond key that I opened months ago and replaced the battery. Remote did work intermittently after that and it finally stopped altogether. So this new new event was surpirising.

    That is when I decided to get the new key thinking the old one finally had it.

    I'm thinking now that some sort of short happened in all key circuit board which opened all the windows and sunroof and by doing that caused interruption between GM and FZV. That is why I'm thinking that if dealer recodes GM with their GT1, it might reestablish the connection.

    Thanks again for continuing support. Let me know if you ever need some parts from US. I'd gladly find you best price and ship it at actual cost.

  7. #32
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    The behavior of the central locking suggests that it could have some wrong input or the general module itself is bad (in coding or physically). If you had the INPA diagnostic interface, you would be able to dig deeper.

    The action when it opened the windows and sunroof was strange because it would suggest that there was a long input from unlocking, not locking. Was the car locked all the time when it rolled down the windows and sunroof?

    Does the car respond properly to the interior central locking button by the hazard lights switch and to the lock in the door? Does the car respond properly with its interior lights to the door open/closed? Does the door lock not spin freely (I suppose it does not because you use the car and do not have a working remote, but this information might help, too)? You might want to have a look at www.bmwgm5.com at the GM3 section as there is some more information about a failing GM3 module, which might be your problem if you answered some of the questions in this paragraph in a positive way.

    Anyway, keep us also updated if you resolve this problem (and how), because I think it is important to the people, who will have this problem next, to find a thread with a solution.
    Last edited by Fx323i; 11-04-2016 at 11:28 AM.
    Martin Voigts
    BMW cars indy and locksmith
    1997 E36 318iS Sierrarot
    2012 Ford Mondeo

  8. #33
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    A little bump. Do you have the key in ignition lock warning working on your car? I live in EU, and here this option is defaultly disabled. If you have any key with removable transponder, you could try turning the key without transponder in the ignition lock to get to initialization mode, then try to pair the remote board to the car.

    The thing is, that the car checks for a key in ignition and if this feature does not work properly in the meaning the car thinks the key is in the ignition lock even if it is out, then it does not allow to use, pair or do anything with the remote. It goes that far, that if you succesfully pair the key using the procedure of key without transponder turning in the ignition lock, after first time when you put the transponder key in the ignition, the pairing of the remote is lost.

    This caused me a lot of headache when I was troubleshooting one E46 with a non-working remote. The key was tested good, the car did not show any faults. Then I tried to code the key in ignition warning function and knew I found the culprit of the problem. The car uses a bit weird method to find out if the key is in ignition. This is checked through the EWS system, which hangs on two fuses. If one of them is blown, it sends "key in ignition" through the bus (I or K bus depending on the cluster version) to the cluster. The cluster is a communication gateway and blocks using remote.

    The fuses I recommend checking on E53 are no. 11 and no. 39. (On E46 these are no. 14 and 67)
    Martin Voigts
    BMW cars indy and locksmith
    1997 E36 318iS Sierrarot
    2012 Ford Mondeo

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx323i View Post
    As a last shot, I would try to disconnect the car's battery from both positive and negative pole, and shorted the + and - cables together for 10 minutes (not touching the battery obviously, as this would mean some fire and smoke). This will discharge the capacitors all over the car and it also sometimes resets the bus problems.
    For the archives:

    Shorting the battery terminals together is pointless. Any remaining charge on the main harness is immediately drawn down. Most modules have diode input protection, so this won't discharge their internal capacitors.

    Disconnecting the battery even briefly will cause all of the modules to reset. The reason for waiting longer is an effect known as CMOS latch-up. This is where a few transistors on the chip enters an "impossible" condition where they are switching each other on. The chip designers are careful to avoid this happening in normal operation, but a static discharge or applying power very slowly can scramble the logic in exactly the wrong way. It's really uncommon, but not impossible. Most datasheets say "virtually immune to latch-up", which implies both that it's not completely immune to latch-up and that the previous generations were more vulnerable.

    Most latch-up conditions involve parasitic transistors to the substrate. These unintended transistors are mediocre and lossy devices. So a part with logic that has latched up will draw more power than normal, discharging any capacitors quickly. It shouldn't take more than a few seconds. A minute should be more than sufficient. Waiting 10 minutes is far longer than is needed. That suggestion probably comes from multiple rounds of "if they say X seconds, I'll say 5 times that number to be certain".

  10. #35
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    Sorry for late response, the thread got pushed down and I haven't checking it.

    Unfortunately, the warning works correctly and the fuses are good, so no go. I haven't come to point to let dealer or Indy have it but I'm almost certain it's GM related. I will post update if it ever gets resolved.

    Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fx323i View Post
    A little bump. Do you have the key in ignition lock warning working on your car? I live in EU, and here this option is defaultly disabled. If you have any key with removable transponder, you could try turning the key without transponder in the ignition lock to get to initialization mode, then try to pair the remote board to the car.

    The thing is, that the car checks for a key in ignition and if this feature does not work properly in the meaning the car thinks the key is in the ignition lock even if it is out, then it does not allow to use, pair or do anything with the remote. It goes that far, that if you succesfully pair the key using the procedure of key without transponder turning in the ignition lock, after first time when you put the transponder key in the ignition, the pairing of the remote is lost.

    This caused me a lot of headache when I was troubleshooting one E46 with a non-working remote. The key was tested good, the car did not show any faults. Then I tried to code the key in ignition warning function and knew I found the culprit of the problem. The car uses a bit weird method to find out if the key is in ignition. This is checked through the EWS system, which hangs on two fuses. If one of them is blown, it sends "key in ignition" through the bus (I or K bus depending on the cluster version) to the cluster. The cluster is a communication gateway and blocks using remote.

    The fuses I recommend checking on E53 are no. 11 and no. 39. (On E46 these are no. 14 and 67)

  11. #36
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    Key fob remote is finally working!
    I pretty much lived with it for almost 2 years after I tried to fix it. But I always hated manual locking function. It's not matter of laziness but rather the fact door lock mechanism will wear faster, you can scratch paint easier fumbling with key etc...
    Last night I decide to give it another shot and I found the problem after rechecking everything all over again.
    I don't know how I missed it 2 years ago because I was certain that amplifier had power but I must have measured 12v+ at the other wire, not the red/black that runs of fuse 86 which is the correct one.
    Yes, that's where the problem was. It was broken at rubber protector at trunk hinge. I did check it back then and tugged on it but it was in the middle of the pack and I though it was good.
    Anyway, as soon as repaired it, I was able to initialize the key and voila, everything works.
    Thank you everybody for your response and learn from my mistake: Double / triple check everything.





    Last edited by BMW540san; 09-22-2018 at 01:12 PM.

  12. #37
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    I think I have the same problem. I was able to use my remote after slamming the trunk forcefully for a few operations. Then after manipulation of that same rubber boot. I'm nearly positive I've got a broken wire (inside the insulation). Thanks for the inspiration I need to fix my remote!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
    I think I have the same problem. I was able to use my remote after slamming the trunk forcefully for a few operations. Then after manipulation of that same rubber boot. I'm nearly positive I've got a broken wire (inside the insulation). Thanks for the inspiration I need to fix my remote!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    No problem. I answered you at xoutpost.

  14. #39
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    I just bought a '12 x5 and Im having the same issue. FOB has a new Batt. I can only unlock/lock the door by using the key in the FOB(manual). It only starts if the FOB in the slot.
    I will check that before I spend any time and money trying to get a new and programming done.

    Keep ya'll posted thank you .

    Quote Originally Posted by BMW540san View Post
    Key fob remote is finally working!
    I pretty much lived with it for almost 2 years after I tried to fix it. But I always hated manual locking function. It's not matter of laziness but rather the fact door lock mechanism will wear faster, you can scratch paint easier fumbling with key etc...
    Last night I decide to give it another shot and I found the problem after rechecking everything all over again.
    I don't know how I missed it 2 years ago because I was certain that amplifier had power but I must have measured 12v+ at the other wire, not the red/black that runs of fuse 86 which is the correct one.
    Yes, that's where the problem was. It was broken at rubber protector at trunk hinge. I did check it back then and tugged on it but it was in the middle of the pack and I though it was good.
    Anyway, as soon as repaired it, I was able to initialize the key and voila, everything works.
    Thank you everybody for your response and learn from my mistake: Double / triple check everything.






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