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Thread: 1997 M3 Coupe - let's see what happens!

  1. #1
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    1997 M3 Coupe - let's see what happens!

    In 2014, I was daily driving a 2000 Honda Prelude. This was after selling a 2012 Mustang GT, and semi daily driving a 2008 C6 Corvette Z51 for awhile.

    Prelude daily driver...

    Mustang daily driver...

    Corvette semi-daily driver...



    The Prelude was fun, but I had the itch for an M3. The E36 was famous, and at the time they were fairly inexpensive. I wanted to try one out.

    I stumbled across a for-sale post on bimmerforums:
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...146k-Boston-MA

    Although I had been looking for a local car, and preferred a four-door, I liked the fact that the car had been meticulously maintained, so I sent the OP a PM.

    It was pretty clear right from the start that Matt was a stand-up, exceptional guy. He patiently answered all my questions. He did a really thorough job of describing any issues with the M3, and we agreed on a list of things he would correct. We also agreed on a price, and bam! I was a new M3 owner.

    I stay pretty busy, so flying from NC up to MA was going to be a problem. I convinced one of the guys at work to fly up and drive the car back for me.

    The car had 148k miles on it when it landed in my driveway in October of 2014. I proceeded to daily-drive it until April of 2016. During that time, I put around 16k miles on it. It was relatively trouble-free. The hood cable broke, and I spent several hours replacing that. I was routinely treated to the litany of goofy e36 error messages about brake lights, coolant levels, and airbags, and brake pad thickness. Other than the dash lighting up like a Christmas tree when in fact there were no problems, the car was very reliable. I sold it to a co-worker in order to “upgrade” to a 540i. My two young kids were getting bigger, and it was becoming increasingly silly to stuff them into the back of the e36 coupe.

    540i daily driver (didn't last long)...


    I didn’t like the 540i, and ended up selling that and buying a new 2017 WRX for a daily driver this summer.

    WRX current daily driver


    I’ve always loved cars. I started out autocrossing in my late teens, and did my first track event once I graduated from college. I never went back to autocross after that, but I’ve done several track events per year ever since.

    [QUICKIMG]


    I recently sold a 2003 Corvette Z06 I have been using as an occasional “track car”, and bought the M3 back from my coworker. I now intend to get it on the track! ​So stay tuned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    First things first: the car has a vibration. This despite the fact that it’s had lots of new/recent maintenance:


    Front shocks (oem)
    Inner/outer tie rods
    Front strut mounts (oem)
    Transmission fluid (Redline D4)
    Brake rotors front/rear
    Brake pads (Hawk DTC60) front/rear
    Front lower control arms and 75D poly bushings
    Poly swaybar bushings and endlinks


    The front wheels/tires were swapped with another e36, and the vibration seemed to follow the wheels/tires. I’m pretty sure it’s either a wheel or tire, even though they’ve been balanced. So I bought new tires from Tirerack: Continental ExtremeContact DW 225/45-17 front and 245/45-17 rear.

    New tires...


    These are the oem sizes for the staggered contour wheels on the car. They arrived today from Tirerack. I'm hoping to get them installed this weekend.

    I hope to gather some data as I make changes to the car. This should help me determine in a factual way how the performance is improving. More on that later!
    Last edited by Patched; 05-14-2017 at 09:29 PM.

  2. #2
    Pelican Parts's Avatar
    Pelican Parts is offline Senior Member Supporting Vendor
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    Really great thread man! Happy that you got back the car you originally wanted. Check out this link to our tech articles on the E36; it'll save you some headaches when you have to troubleshoot fixes (it'll happen ). Keep us updated on how the project goes and if you decide to formally document the diy fixes; check out this link! Best of luck.


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  3. #3
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    cool story. i like you bought it back.
    while i love conti DW's tracked/daily them on my GTI. after loving the DWS now winters for me.

    consider square tire set up. for easy tire rotations, balanced grips.
    experts can chime in, i went square from the start reading recommendations around here.

    build goals?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelican Parts View Post
    Really great thread man! Happy that you got back the car you originally wanted. Check out this link to our tech articles on the E36; it'll save you some headaches when you have to troubleshoot fixes (it'll happen ). Keep us updated on how the project goes and if you decide to formally document the diy fixes; check out this link! Best of luck.
    -Dmitry
    Wow, tons of info there. Thanks for the links!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by poweredbyg60 View Post
    cool story. i like you bought it back.
    while i love conti DW's tracked/daily them on my GTI. after loving the DWS now winters for me.

    consider square tire set up. for easy tire rotations, balanced grips.
    experts can chime in, i went square from the start reading recommendations around here.

    build goals?
    Yeah, I hope to change to a square 17x9 setup, but I really want to get it to the track on the stock system first to get a "baseline".

    I'd like to build it to be a great, reliable track car, but still legal and fun for an occasional street drive. I'd like to snip 200 lbs out of it, bump the horsepower by 20-50, and throw the book at it regarding handling.

  5. #5
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    I would say looks good but there are no pictures of your car in the thread!! Car looks clean from the for sale thread tho. Good luck with the build! Theres tons of information on these cars out there so you can probably find the answer to just about any question you have along the way.

  6. #6
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    bmw e36 328i 4dr saloon
    Can't wait to see what you have planned for the M3. Keep us updated.
    1996 328i (m52B28US) OBD1 euro ZF 5spd. 3.23LSD conversion / Chem. PnP Head/ DINAN stg.2 CHIP/ VAC race valves/ S52 cams/ A/C delete/ fan delete/ Washer Fluid resv delete/ ARP head studs/ Cometic 140MLS / VAC Solid Engine/trans Mounts/ CAI / 2.5"Borla race exahaust/ NGK R spark plugs, M50 Mani, S50 Oil Res, Riot Racing HFTB, SAMCO Hoses, JBR FW, X-Brace, Mtech Front Bumper, RE RSMs, stoptech SS lines, Bilstein sports, H&R Race Springs, S52 Reinforcement plates, Kosei K1 w/ bridgestone RE960as, Brembo/stoptech slotted rotors, M3 Trailing arms, M3 Calipers, M3 Axles, ACS strut brace, weight reduction.

    http://mbuild.blogspot.com/

  7. #7
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    I did some baseline testing today. I used an Aim Solo lap timer to measure 1/8 mile performance. Before anybody gets too excited by the numbers, the section of road is uphill. I was actually pretty gentle with the launch. The point wasn't to get the best time, the point was have a consistent, repeatable approach for comparison purposes for when I modify the car. Ambient temp was 65 degrees F.

    Run 1
    time 10.65 seconds
    speed 74 mph

    Run 2
    time 10.32 seconds
    speed 75 mph

    Run 1 may have been hampered somewhat by accidentally leaving the traction control on. When I shifted to 2nd, it seemed to bog, and I realized I had left it on.


  8. #8
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    Walmart is pretty much the only place I could find on a Sunday to mount and balance four tires. Turns out they now charge an extra $50 if you don't buy the tires from them. Awesome. Despite the ripoff, I had them put the new tires on and it cured the vibration problem. Check out the old tires...

    Front, looking rough and with a very worn outer edge:


    Rear, outer edge shot, and chunks um missing:


    To celebrate curing the vibration, I ordered some new stuff. Top secret for now, you'll find out later.

    I also changed the spark plugs. The old ones had around 30k miles on them, and didn't look horrible. I did however measure the gap of one of the old ones at 0.042". That seemed pretty large. All of the new plugs seemed to be properly pre-gapped to 0.032".



    While I was at it, I tested the compression. Results:
    #1: 210psi
    #2: 202psi
    #3: 202psi
    #4: 205psi
    #5: 205psi
    #6: 205psi

    Not bad for 166k plus miles.

    And just for fun, I ran the same acceleration test with the Aim Solo in my WRX. The only run I did showed 10.59s at 75 mph, ambient temp 64 degrees F. This is about what the M3 did, which passes the sniff test.
    Last edited by Patched; 05-14-2017 at 09:35 PM.

  9. #9
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    Top secret stuff????!!!! Don't keep us in suspense!
    ‘Tis by the grace of God that my cars run!


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingston View Post
    Top secret stuff????!!!! Don't keep us in suspense!
    Bwahahaha! (evil witch laugh) Just wait and see, my pretties!
    ------------------

    Because I believe in the laws of physics, I've put the old girl (the M3 I mean) on a diet. If F=ma, I want to improve both sides of that equation. With regards to mass...

    spare contour with full-size 225/45-17 Michelin (47.2 lbs)
    jack, foam, towel wrapped around jack to minimize rattles (5.8 lbs)
    rear trunk carpet (8.4 lbs)
    inner tail light covers (RH + LH) with RH plastic tray + lug nut wrench (2.0 lbs)
    CD changer + bracket + velcro cover (6.2 lbs)
    upper trunk lid molded felt (0.5 lbs)
    tool kit (2.0 lbs)

    Total removed so far 72.1 lbs.



    Because this forum is boss, much of these component weights have already been covered here
    If I notice anything missing, I'll add it to that thread. But of course I'll keep track of my own stuff here.
    Last edited by Patched; 05-14-2017 at 09:35 PM.

  11. #11
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    bench seat bottom + RH and LH side bolster pieces = 18.4 lbs
    rear RH seat back w/ seat belt = 17.6 lbs
    rear LH seat back w/ seat belt = 17.2 lbs
    middle seat belt = 0.4 lbs

    Total removed today = 53.4 lbs

    Total removed so far = 125.5

    Last edited by Patched; 05-14-2017 at 09:36 PM.

  12. #12
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    insulation pads beneath rear bench seat = 8.2 lbs
    misc molded insulation trunk and rear seat = 4.4 lbs
    driver side rear door panel w/ seat belt latch = 4.2 lbs
    passenger side rear door panel w/ seat belt latch = 4.2 lbs
    insulation behind rear side panels RH + LH = 7.2 lbs
    passenger side trunk padding = 2.8 lbs

    Total today = 31 lbs

    Total removed so far = 156.5 lbs


    Last edited by Patched; 05-14-2017 at 09:37 PM.

  13. #13
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    While hanging out in my trunk during the disassembly phase, I noticed the right rear shock bobbing up and down through the shock mount. Um, not supposed to be doing that. So I ordered a new pair of shock mounts with reinforcement plates from Rogue Engineering:



    OEM shock mounts can be had for like $10 ea. But I figured while I'm replacing them, might as well upgrade... right? They weren't terribly difficult to install, but I kind of wish I had gone ahead and replaced the shocks while I had everything apart. And the springs. And maybe the bushings

    Installed...


    The old broken one... I've highlighted the cracked portion of the bushing:


    I also ordered some stainless steel brake lines. The OE lines are looking a little old, and again I figured I might as well upgrade.


    I loosened the lugs, got the car up on jack stands, pulled the wheels off and... surprise, surprise - I needed an 11mm flare nut wrench. I have a zillion SAE and metric sizes, but no 11mm. So a day or two later I bought one. And today I made a nasty mess pulling one the old hoses out only to realize the hoses I bought have a male fitting on one end and a female fitting on the other end, while the old hoses have female fittings on both ends. So the new hoses aren't going to fit without some kind of adapter. Awesome.
    Last edited by Patched; 05-14-2017 at 09:41 PM.

  14. #14
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    Oops. I forgot to update my build thread. Then I remembered that I had forgotten, but it seemed like way too much work to go back and try to remember what I had done.

    I bought a carbon fiber sunroof. Let me explain the logic. The headliner was sagging. I could spend a few hundred bucks and a few hours putting a new headliner in it, or voila I could install a much lighter carbon plug.

    Here's a photo of the new panel...


    The old sunroof wasn't hard to remove...


    Fitment and finish was nearly perfect. Here it is all shiny and installed...


    This chopped 36.2 lbs out. Add that to the 156.5 lb total from before, total saved = 192.7 lbs.

    I don't know what got into me after that, but I decided to attack the rusty (original) exhaust. I found an AA replica FULL exhaust on ebay for like $300 and ordered it. I spent a few hours pulling out the old exhaust, but managed to shear a bunch of the old rusty bolts off. I also sheared off several of the downpipe to exhaust pipe studs. After breaking and dulling drill bits on the broken studs (are these things seriously made out of inconel??) I ordered some unobtanium drill bits from McMaster and got serious.



    This was no fun. If I had known it was going to be that big of a pain the butt, I wouldn't have messed with it.

    Did I mention that the el-cheapo exhaust didn't fit right? The flanges didn't want to mate up with the downpipes, which caused hours of frustration. The rear muffler section was even worse, and also didn't mate up with the oem exhaust hangers. I ended up fabricating a couple of custom brackets. The thing is obnoxiously loud, rubs and vibrates in several sections, and would be tough to live with on a daily driver.

    Having said that, it really uncorked the engine (acceleration results soon to come), and dropped another 40 lbs. So the total saved = 232.7 lbs.

    I also replaced the rear shocks. I need to get this thing on the track...
    Last edited by Patched; 05-15-2017 at 05:12 PM.

  15. #15
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    Hey man, nice build, read that you are using the ebay exhaust, i bought it used in on the track once and it all burned out, was a waste of 300 bucks to be honest, they only good part of the exhaust is the y pipe from the downpipes lol..

  16. #16
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    what CF sunroof plug is that? doesn't look like the S2R plug most guys run. is that the ECS?
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleeye635 View Post
    Hey man, nice build, read that you are using the ebay exhaust, i bought it used in on the track once and it all burned out, was a waste of 300 bucks to be honest, they only good part of the exhaust is the y pipe from the downpipes lol..
    I hope mine doesn't burn up! The y-pipe was the worst offender for my parts - the flanges were off in the fore/aft direction and didn't want to mate up to the downpipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by doktor b View Post
    what CF sunroof plug is that? doesn't look like the S2R plug most guys run. is
    that the ECS?
    Yes, this is the ECS sunroof plug.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patched View Post
    Yes, this is the ECS sunroof plug.
    awesome. i just ordered the same thing for my 95 coupe. looks great. install pretty straightforward like the S2R?
    can't wait to replace my rattly sunroof (and lose 36lbs off the top!)
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by doktor b View Post
    awesome. i just ordered the same thing for my 95 coupe. looks great. install pretty straightforward like the S2R?
    can't wait to replace my rattly sunroof (and lose 36lbs off the top!)
    Yeah it was easy to install. The write-ups helped get the old sunroof cassette out without any glitches. It's insane how much that thing weighs. I still have it sitting in my garage and I have no idea what I'm going to do with it.

  20. #20
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    Awesome.
    thanks!
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patched View Post
    Yeah it was easy to install. The write-ups helped get the old sunroof cassette out without any glitches. It's insane how much that thing weighs. I still have it sitting in my garage and I have no idea what I'm going to do with it.
    sawzall+trashcan!
    Back into a BMW, this time a track rat....and it won't be BMW powered and no, not a V8 either!
    Couldn't help myself, boosted e36 m52 street car in progress also!

  22. #22
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    I ran the car at CMP in an SCCA "Track Night in America".

    Temps were in the high 80's, but bearable. The Advanced run group was pretty small. I was a minute or two late getting on track for the first session, so I didn't get the lap timer installed and working. The video below suggests ~2:02 laps, which isn't bad (for me). I did a 2:00 flat in the second session. As a reference, the fastest lap I ever turned in the Z06 was a 1:51.



    My first session was cut short when a guy planted his Subaru in the trees. We were under full course yellow for first couple of laps (warm up). The blue subaru passes me (under yellow?) at 3:06. I start pushing it on the 3rd lap 6:34. You can just see the red flag at the corner worker station as I brake coming down the hill (~110 mph) at 13:29. Ambulance at 14:57. I drive by the wreck at 16:32 but you can't see much.

    I got the lap timer working for the 2nd session, but the video camera either ran out of memory or I fat-fingered the on-button. My 2nd session was cut short when the steering started acting fun and the handling got crazy - it felt like I had a flat in the rear. Turns out I had blown a power steering hose, and dumped the fluid on the rear tires. I skipped the 3rd session and limped home.

    The car felt good. It felt a little soft, like it needed more spring and more sway bar. I will definitely dial in more camber, and pull some more weight out.

    If you're interested in some of the interior, check the thread
    HERE

  23. #23
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    M3 at the track...





    Aim Solo screenshot...

  24. #24
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    Looking forward to your build progress! Which one did you enjoy more, the 300 or the fc?

  25. #25
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    The Z32 was a great performer but undertired. 3500 lbs and 400hp on 16" tires is like a fat man on ice skates. The FC was beastly and very enjoyable - in the same way that pulling a prank on an axe murderer who is hellbent on killing is enjoyable.

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