Windows, Sunroof, Locking, Wipers

[nk1221]

Hi everyone! First time posting here in the 7 series area. I recently bought a '90 735i, build date is 7/90, I am happy with the car but right now I have no power windows, no sunroof, no central locking and my wipers only work on high speed and do not park themselves. I know this topic has been brought up many times before but I have been looking around on forums and such for a few days and still havent been able to get anywhere with it. I have checked both fusible links, all the fuses are good, went through all of the wires and plugs under the back seat to check for corrosion, tired a reset on the GM, then tried replacing the GM and I am stumped. I noticed the sunroof switch lights up still but the window switches do not...not sure if this means anything. I'm usually able to fix whatever goes wrong with my e30 with the power of internet forums but I am new to the e32 and this time I am stuck. Any help is very appreciated!

[shogun]

Are you sure the fusible links are o.k.? Double check. Often the haircracks are under the bolts or rivets. I would for a test make a jumper over the fusible links.
The symptoms are typical for fusible link problems.
Wiper high speed problem could be the speed sensor http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Mainte...eed_sensor.htm

[nk1221]

Thanks for answering! I just tested them for continuity and cleaned them a little bit but I'll try the jumper!

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[nk1221]

Just tried jumping both of the fusible links with unfortunately no change. Still nothing!

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[shogun]

I assume the problem must be in the area of the rear fuse box. There are also a lot of wires/connection points under the carpet around the rear fuse box. Do not know if you checked already these?

[nk1221]

Okay so I was able to go under the backseat again today. I haven't had any time lately. I checked the grounds I could find and looked at most of the capped off connections and they look okay. The only bad thing I saw was the CCM module is taped closed. IMG_20161006_175015.jpgIMG_20161006_174601.jpgIMG_20161006_175003.jpg

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[shogun]

Maybe previous owner made some modifications on the CCM, but the CCM is just checking and warning if there are malfunctions or non-conform data coming.
Have you pulled the GM and RM? Check the pins of these, they control wipers, window, sunroof, locking, washing, interior lights etc.
You can also make a reset of the GM.
SUBJECT: New General Modules (GM)

MODELS: 7 Series (E32), 5 Series (E34)
- Vehicles produced 9/91 and later
Situation: New general modules have been used in production since September 1991 in all E32 and E34 models. The software has been completely revised (details of these revisions are found in the attachment to this Service Information Bulletin). Part numbers have been changed to reflect these revisions, as listed below, as of September 1991. Model Part Number
E32 61 35 8 356 095,
E34-up to 61 35 8 356 095 9/91 production
E34-9/91 and later production 61 35 8 355 812
Note:
E34 vehicles produced 9/91 and later have different central locking system components from earlier E34 vehicles; therefore, P/N 61 35 8 355 812 is used only in E34 vehicles produced 9/91 and later, P/N 61 35 8 356 095 can be used in E34 vehicles produced prior to 9/91, and in all E32 vehicles. When the general module is connected to the vehicles electrical system, it will recognize (and store in memory) the vehicle configuration, such as:
- with/without power windows
- With/without power sunroof
- with/without wiper contact pressure control
- with/without headlight washers
Important Information
All general modules must be plugged in only after disconnecting the vehicle's battery. If the vehicle's battery is connected when the GM is installed, undefined signal contacts can cause an incorrect vehicle configuration to be stored, resulting in the impairment of one or more of the above-mentioned systems. If one or more of the GM functions are impaired in this matter, the GM can be "cleared" by disconnecting the vehicle's battery for at least ten seconds.
GM Function Changes E32/E34 (Beginning with 9/91 Production)
- Repeat and Time interlock for headlight washers:
· Time interlock: 3 minutes
· Headlight washing at fifth windshield washing after time interlock.
- Intensive washing pump operating time reduced from 3 to 2 seconds
- Minimum interval for intermittent wiping is programmable down to 2 seconds (previously 3 seconds)
- Increased wiper contact pressure during windshield washing cycle is now also provided during dry wiping portion of the cycle (previously only during washer pump operation).
- Previously, the GM would react to opposing signals (eg., an unlock signal while trying to lock, as with a defective microswitch) by carrying out the first command, then the opposing command (e.g., locking, followed immediately by unlocking).
Repeating the first command then results in carrying out that command (e.g., try to lock again, and locking is now carried out).
This function ("Asynchronous Position") is omitted in the new GM for all E32 models and E34 models prior to 9/91 (P/N 61 35 8 356 095), and remains in the new GM for E34 models after 9/91 (P/N 61 35 8 355 812) only for central locking commands "lock" and "double-lock".
- After unlocking is performed due to crash sensor activation, the locking command is now reactivated by double-locking with the key from either the driver's or passenger's door.
- The "one-touch" operation of windows has been expanded to include all four windows in the opening direction. The driver's window still has "one-touch" operation in both opening and closing directions. Interruption of the "one-touch" feature of the driver's window in the closing direction is still accomplished by depressing any window switch (in any direction), or by depressing the sunroof switch in the "tilt" direction (provided the sunroof is not already in the "tilt" position). Interruption of the "one-touch" feature of the sunroof in the closing direction is still accomplished by depressing the sunroof switch (in any direction).
- The switch-off delay of the interior lights which occurs after entering the vehicle and closing the driver's door has been reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.

[nk1221]

Ah okay! Yeah no problems with the checking or warning at all, I have pulled both the GM and RM and took a peek inside the GM and nothing looked out of the ordinary. I also pulled a GM out of a 525i just to try it but had no luck. I tried a reset a few days ago as well. I'll pull both the modules today and take a closer look! Thanks for the help!

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[nk1221]

I pulled both the modules this morning. Both the receiving pin slots and the pins on the modules themselves look okay. No corrosion or rust or moisture of any kind in there. I popped them both open and everything looks okay to me. I couldn't find any cracks and nothing looked burnt or fried. The battery was disconnected for about 30 minutes also while I had them out. Here's some pics:

GM


RM



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[shogun]

As for the pics someone with good experience in electronics has to comment, cold solderings and haircracks are difficult to see for the unexperienced.
Searched a bit more, here is the ZKE / GM pinout, so you know which pin does what http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1209000/

"...wipers only work on high speed and do not park themselves.">>>wiper speed "could"(?) be related to the speed sensor on final drive http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Mainte...eed_sensor.htm
wiper not parking in end position: the E32 wiper motor has a kind of limit switch for default rest position, read this thread from 2007 http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/332849

[E32FAN]

right now I have no power windows, no sunroof, no central locking and my wipers only work on high speed and do not park themselves.

I think the clues are in the following schematic pages, which you can print and spread out on a table.
http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e32/e32_90.pdf

6100-01 Here is GM X332 pin 5. It is powered by the K15 protection relay. This closes when GM X253 pin 10 is at Gnd.
6161-01 Wiper runs fast when S5 switch is at position 4. This goes directly to the RM. To park properly, GM X253 pin 3 must respond to X255 pin 22 where the park switch is connected.
5126-02 Central locking is powered by GM X332 pin 5
5133-00 "G" is powered by GM X332 pin 5
5133-05 Power windows are powered from "G" = 5133-00
5410-03 Sunroof is powered from GM X332 pin 5

I would see whether K15 is energized or not. Your GM can cause all these troubles so I would swap it. Must be an E32 GM.

[nk1221]

Little bit of an update! I haven't been able to do much but K15 does have power. Today I made it to the nearest junkyard with an e32 which was a good 2 hours away and grabbed the modules out of it. After swapping the GM and RM with mine I still have nothing working.

Edit: Windshield wipers work fine now and the window switches light up.

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[nk1221]

Alright so unfortunately I still haven't been able to get anything to work. All my power windows don't function still, neither does the central locking or my sunroof. I have replaced the GM and RM with 3 different sets now with no change. Fuse f47 does have power and the K15 relay works and has power going through it. My window switches and sunroof switches are lit up but don't make any clicks from the relays when pushed. I'm not really sure where I should be testing next!

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[S1L1SC]

Could be bad switches or burned out motors - I would start with the sunroof and check if the motor gets power when you hit the switch... Same for the windows.
The likelihood of all the motors being out/bad is low, but it is a possibility.

[CamE32]

Hate to bump an old thread, but did you ever solve your problems? I'm having the same issues.

[CamE32]

I've swapped in a known working GM (didn't try both the GM and RM, is that necessary?) and I still don't have any windows, sunroof, locks, or wipers other than high with no park. Anyone have any suggestions?? Would one cracked wire in a door or something cause the whole system to fault out?

I've swapped in window switches and a sunroof switch that I know work + a GM that was taken out of a car that I just tested (both cars are 1988 735i's)... still nothing. It's like the GM isn't even getting power... I've checked all fusible links with a voltmeter and also tried bridging them... still nothing.

Please help!! I don't know what else to test. all the wires and connections appear clean and corrosion-free.

[E32FAN]

I've swapped in a known working GM (didn't try both the GM and RM, is that necessary?) and I still don't have any windows, sunroof, locks, or wipers other than high with no park. Anyone have any suggestions?? Would one cracked wire in a door or something cause the whole system to fault out?

I've swapped in window switches and a sunroof switch that I know work + a GM that was taken out of a car that I just tested (both cars are 1988 735i's)... still nothing. It's like the GM isn't even getting power... I've checked all fusible links with a voltmeter and also tried bridging them... still nothing.

Please help!! I don't know what else to test. all the wires and connections appear clean and corrosion-free.

re: My post of 10-09-2016, 11:06 AM - I think the key is the K15 Protection Relay. You can wrap a thin bare wire around pin 2 of K15 to measure the voltage. If K2 is not energized then your symptoms are explained.

I think the clues are in the following schematic pages, which you can print and spread out on a table.
http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e32/e32_90.pdf

6100-01 Here is GM X332 pin 5. It is powered by the K15 protection relay. This closes when GM X253 pin 10 is at Gnd.
6161-01 Wiper runs fast when S5 switch is at position 4. This goes directly to the RM. To park properly, GM X253 pin 3 must respond to X255 pin 22 where the park switch is connected.
5126-02 Central locking is powered by GM X332 pin 5
5133-00 "G" is powered by GM X332 pin 5
5133-05 Power windows are powered from "G" = 5133-00
5410-03 Sunroof is powered from GM X332 pin 5

I would see whether K15 is energized or not. Your GM can cause all these troubles so I would swap it. Must be an E32 GM.

[CamE32]

Thank you for the info!! That could prove extremely helpful.

From a cursory glance at those diagrams I'm still a little unclear on a couple things. Is the K15 protection relay a removable relay under the rear seat (like one of the yellow or orange ones? If so, which one is it???Also can you please elaborate on how you would connect a thin bare wire around pin 2 to measure the voltage?

Might be getting ahead of myself with my next question, but what might cause the K15 relay to not get power?

[E32FAN]

Thank you for the info!! That could prove extremely helpful.

From a cursory glance at those diagrams I'm still a little unclear on a couple things. Is the K15 protection relay a removable relay under the rear seat (like one of the yellow or orange ones? If so, which one is it???Also can you please elaborate on how you would connect a thin bare wire around pin 2 to measure the voltage?

Might be getting ahead of myself with my next question, but what might cause the K15 relay to not get power?

See page 7000-04 where it says that K15 Electric Power Protection Relay is located “Under LH side of rear seat, on Rear Power Distribution Box” --- 7100-16-02.

On page 7100-16 we see Figure 02 which has an arrow pointing to our relay K15. It is called Electric Power Production Relay. Here we can see a very rare German documentation error! shogun can help us to comprehend how Protection has been garbled to Production. - how can such an error creep into the precise German E32 documentation ???

On page 6100-01 we see that K15 plugs into connector X294. The orientation of these relay pins are shown on page 8500-07. When the K15 relay is plugged into its socket, we have no way to measure the voltage on its pins. So we can take a stranded lamp cord and cut off all but a single strand which we can wrap around pin 2 and then plug K15 home into its socket. Now we can easily measure the voltage to Chassis Ground using our multimeter. Lacking a Chassis Ground, you can use the Negative battery terminal, which is just 24 inches away.

Now K15 is a kind of electronic fuse. When the GM senses excessive current flow through 30 Amp F47 via RM between GM X332 pins 4 and 5, it cuts power to K15 to prevent damage. Perhaps your K15 has failed in service.

This might be a greater puzzle than you like, but you will probably know electrical fanatics who can follow these breadcrumbs to locate the fault.

[CamE32]

Can you help me identify which of the three relays is K15 from this photo?

RLH Under Seat.jpg


Their orientation is different from the diagram you referred to on page 07100-16:

7100-16.JPG

The reason the relays are moldy is because I swapped them over from my dirty 1988 735il parts car that has working windows/locks/wipers. So I know this combination of relays and control modules worked in the other car... leaving me even more confused

[E32FAN]

Can you help me identify which of the three relays is K15 from this photo?

RLH Under Seat.jpg


Their orientation is different from the diagram you referred to on page 07100-16:

7100-16.JPG

The reason the relays are moldy is because I swapped them over from my dirty 1988 735il parts car that has working windows/locks/wipers. So I know this combination of relays and control modules worked in the other car... leaving me even more confused

Hi CamE32,

Yes, these Rear Power Box relays were positioned wherever the factory installer decided to place them, on that production day long ago. Free form positioning.

K15 will be the relay that has the pin configuration of X294, as shown on page 8500-07.

And, it will be the relay that has pins 6 and 8 shorted together per Page 6100-01. Plus, these pins will both have battery voltage Hot At All Times, which dies when F47 is pulled.

BONUS - K15 is one of the very few E32 Relays that you can remove and examine the wiring feeding to it. K15 will have THICK (2.5 sq mm) RED wires on pins 6 and 8. You can't miss it!

[LysanderSpooner]

In case anyone else finds this thread with similar symptoms (I had three out of four not working; wipers still worked), in my case it was a blown 30A fuse #47 under the rear seat in my '94 740i.

[Brw535i]

So what was the outcome solution as I too now have encountered the same problem and all checks out good

[shogun]

Does somebody have a part number of relay K15, either BMW p/n or the maker p/n shown on the relay? Location next to the GM http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/date...b-5a_03_92.pdf
GM is A1, K15 is X294.
fuse boxes diagram E32 https://www.autogenius.info/bmw-735i...e-box-diagram/

[CamE32]

So what was the outcome solution as I too now have encountered the same problem and all checks out good

For me it was a shorted ground under the left rear floor mat... paid a mechanic $400 and wish I did that long ago. One or two splices was all it took to restore windows, locks, wipers, & interior lights.