Sunroof Kinematics

[JBZ4]

They look great, really anxious to see how they work out. Please take a few pictures of your install process. JB

[Randy Forbes]

Another alternative is steel or aluminum and leave the tabs slightly undersized allowing for an epoxy pot dip then cure on all four tabs. The rough surface finish of the casting could help to promote adhesion, and will provide a polymer barrier between the aluminum extrusion and the bracket. BMW took a similar route with the overmolded tabs, albeit in a more true mass production fashion.

+1 for all that's taking place here, this is a crazy amount of work you've already completed.

A dry-film lubricant (DFL) like I put on piston skirts, engine bearings, etc., would be far easier, as it applies next to zero film thickness (.0015").

DFL polymer coated camshaft at top, plain cam at bottom:



ddbaker3, that's some pretty impressive work! I am interested to learn if the reduced footprint will cause any instability (or alignment) issues when put under load (think raising the sunroof @ 70 MPH).

You can count on me for a set, and I'm okay with using the original hardware, though please include a couple of those micro-ting E-clips with each set (they can disappear faster than you can blink!). Contact me about the Super Lube when you're ready...

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[ddbaker3]

The method that I went with was to remove the E-rings and pins that hold the glass in first. These are the pins that are at the very end of the lifter arms. Removing these is fairly easy with the sunroof fully open. Taking the glass off first will make everything much easier and it allowed me to keep the headliner in place. Being able to tilt the sunroof motor with the track attached to it is very important.

I removed the two push-in fasteners on either side of the motor. I also removed the grab handle on the passenger side and the plugs on the driver's side. I'm not sure removing those really did much as the B-pillar plastic around the seatbelt slider seems to be more of a problem. But I was afraid of snapping clips and I was luckily able to do this job without removing those.
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I recommend getting a ratcheting 8mm wrench for this job. A socket won't fit between the roof and headliner and this made things quick. Remove the two outer bolts first and keep track of the captured nut that sits inside of the track.
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Once the two outer bolts are removed, you can sort of pull the motor out and tilt it up to access the underside. Two torx bolts thread into the captured brass inserts inside of the plastic motor cover.
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Sunroof track is removed so now would be a good time to clean everything.
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Here is what the brass insert looks like when removed from the plastic. These can be reused and a socket will fit inside of the track.
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[ddbaker3]

Here is a standard socket fitting inside of the track to tighten the inserts when reassembling everything.
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Although my motor cover was broken, enough plastic remained where I could snap this back into place between the inserts. I think I'll be able to come up with a 3D printed replacement in the future if it breaks further.
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I made the mistake of using these inner holes meant for the push-in headliner clips and didn't realize until I had the glass back up on the roof. The arrow is pointing to the correct location.

*NOTE* Before the motor is re-installed, make sure that both sliders are in the exact same position. I made sure mine were all the way in the "down" or "closed" position at the very ends of the lifter arms. If you don't make sure they are in the same place, the lifter arms will not raise and lower equally once the motor is back in place.
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Re-installing the E-rings to the pins that hold in the glass was the most difficult part. I did end up losing a few and luckily I had ordered extras. There isn't much room to work and I really could have used some of those clamping medical pliers to hold the ring tightly while snapping it back onto the pin. After losing a few, I was able to get them in place long enough to snap on with this tape method. I'm also looking into some off-the-shelf hardware that could potentially replace these outer pins.
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[ddbaker3]

Overall, I'm very happy with these new parts so far. I'll do as much testing in the car as I can, but they've been working great. There was no change in how they performed whether I was parked or going highway speeds. There aren't any vibrations, rattling, clicking, scraping, etc. and operation is smooth. I'm sure cleaning the track and replacing the grease plays a big part in that and I'm also sure that all of the dirt and old grease that built up over time is the reason these parts eventually break. The original metal is very brittle as you can see in the video below.

I'll most likely start a new thread that outlines all of the details about cost, shipping, what's included, and all of the other relevant information soon. I've got some minor details left to work out and then these should be ready to go.

Thanks for all of the support!!





This video is comparing the original sliders that came out of my car with the older version of the new bronze part. Since the design has been updated, I thought it would be good to do some simple strength tests.



This video shows the steps involved with disassembling the kinematics and replacing the sliders. I tried to be thorough and outline all of the steps and details.

[BimmerBreaker]

I dab the E-clip in a little grease, put it roughly in position and then push directly from the back of the clip with a flathead to lock in place. Works well to not lose them

How much are these for a set?

[JBZ4]

Great job, wow. I also saw your posted video of the sunroof opening and closing. Thanks for the great write up and pictures. I am looking forward to getting my sunroof operational again once you sort out the details and ready to ship.

[scenturion]

+1 count me in for a set for future-proofing

[ixlr08]

My coupe doesn't have a sunroof, so I don't need to worry about this. But I'm impressed by the work you have put into this project and the service you are providing to those who need this to fix their sunroofs. Thank you for helping those in need.

[ProductUser]

My coupe doesn't have a sunroof, so I don't need to worry about this. But I'm impressed by the work you have put into this project and the service you are providing to those who need this to fix their sunroofs. Thank you for helping those in need.

+1 -- Agreed!

[KeysCoupe]

I've been following this thread from the beginning. A few trials, then fades away, then another trial, etc. it looks like you have taken this to completion. Thanks from all the sunroof Coupe owners!
I'll be looking forward to seeing these put into production, if feasible. Count me in as another customer. I haven't raised my sunroof in close to 2 years. It would be nice to have that option without the fear of breaking the sliders.
Thanks-Donny

[ddbaker3]

I appreciate all of the kind words! I really enjoy the history of these cars and the community that's been formed around them. It's been a lot of fun trying to solve this sunroof problem and I've got a few other ideas in the works for replacement parts and upgrades. I've been daily driving my 2.8 coupe for about 18 months now and I just love it, so I've enjoyed solving my own broken sunroof problem and I'm happy to help others out too.


I think I've settled on the following included in the purchase:

2 - Cast Bronze Sliders
2 - Packets of PTFE Lube
4 - Spare 4mm E-Rings

2 - 4mm x 10mm Shoulder Bolts w/ M3 Thread
2 - M3 Washers
2 - M3 Flange Bolts
(These parts to serve as replacements for the upper pin and E-ring combo to attach the glass to the lifter arms. These will allow for easier removal of the glass if you want to have a completely open roof)

Total: $195 plus shipping

Does that sound fairly reasonable?

[JBZ4]

Sounds great to me. Was this a pretty easy fix, skill wise? Thanks for the pictures!

[robb1887]

Total: $195 plus shipping

Pricing seems about right from what I know from my own beginnings of getting this rolling before coming across your thread and realizing you're months ahead of me in schedule and abandoning it.

As someone who has been providing "repeat" parts over the years to the community, I'll say in my experience a "Shipped (Contential US)" price is less work for you and less back and forth with each person you have to interact with. I find the cost to ship the package to the west coast, and make that my shipping price. Sure the east coast guys may pay a buck or two over but it reduces the churn of getting addresses, getting quotes, responding with a shipping cost, waiting on payment and then getting labels.

Something this size can likely be shipped to the west coast via first class mail for ~$7. Just include it in your SHIPPED price and offer outside Cont. US as an option with additional shipping required.

[BimmerBreaker]

2 - 4mm x 10mm Shoulder Bolts w/ M3 Thread2 - M3 Washers
2 - M3 Flange Bolts
(These parts to serve as replacements for the upper pin and E-ring combo to attach the glass to the lifter arms. These will allow for easier removal of the glass if you want to have a completely open roof)

Any pictures of this? I really love that idea. I was always jealous of Ron Stygar's quick-removal setup. I think his used drilled pins and a cotter pin but this setup seems it'd work fine too. No worry of the hardware unscrewing over time?

Agreed with Robb - a shipped price is just... easier I'd call it $200 shipped in the US and move on with it. You'll ship some for $3 and some for $7 depending on location - it'll end up being about a wash averaging about $5 I bet.

[brandontrek]

I am in for a set

[s8ilver]

I am in for a set

+1

[ddbaker3]

Thanks for the feedback, those are some great points. I'll go with $200 shipped in the US to make it simple.

JBZ4, it was a pretty easy fix skill wise. Order of operations matters a lot and the tiny E-rings are the hardest part to deal with. I might go back and make a video for the steps involved with removing and re-installing the sunroof on the car.

And for the shoulder bolts, that's a good point about coming loose. I'm not too concerned, but I can get some nyloc M3 nuts just to be sure. This definitely won't be as refined or as well developed as Ron Stygar's solution, that's a whole project in itself. But these should at least serve as an easier replacement for those pins and I can add them in with the sliders for not much cost. I'll keep a long flat head and a little wrench or socket in the car and just expect it to take 5-10 minutes to remove the glass.

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[doclip]

+1
I'm also interested..

[MartyBtoo]

I'm in for one. When you are ready to go just list a PayPal address and you will have the money. If you want to raise the price for PayPal to cover the fees, I'm good with that too.

Marty

[JBZ4]

Thanks a video would be great! As mentioned I am all in. Again, great job seeing this through.

[KeysCoupe]

Let us know where and when to send funds when you're ready to ship.
-Donny

[daven]

2 - 4mm x 10mm Shoulder Bolts w/ M3 Thread

Where did you source that size shoulder bolt with a slotted head? All I can find are allen/hex heads. I've got a set of the CNC copies of the sliders from Benm75 from across the pond. But would like to add these bolts to the stash. Your price is more than fair. Especially shipped and in comparison to the CNC version. Its people like you that will keep our precious coupes alive and fully functional well into the future when they take away our gasoline. We all thank you.

[Jeremy]

Sign me up for a set

[MudHut]

I'd like a set too please. Please let me know your Paypal or how to send you money.

<insert Fry "TaKe mY mONeY!" picture here>

Jay