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Thread: Sunroof Kinematics

  1. #26
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    '99 Z3 Coupe, 2016 R3
    Nice to see this topic back in action, it would be great to have a reasonable cost solution for this problem. Hope things are going well.

  2. #27
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    Sorry for the delay. I was busy with housebuying/some interior work/licensing examinations. Still am in process of all of these, yesterday I measured the pieces completely, drew them up, and planned the design.

    It is a very technically challenging piece for machining, which is why the original part was cast. There are some very acute angles that are necessary for the holder (to the cable), but with the help of some VERY small end mills (some 62 thousandths big), I *should* be able to get past the issue. We'll see how many I end up breaking. It's thinner than a #2 pencil lead, and made of carbide.

    I would like to note that the original cast piece is very fragile. First it was warped due to use, and when I attempted to straighten it a it (for easier gliding), it developed some small fractures. . I also lost a flying E-Clip while taking it apart... found it, and then it flew away again. . Not so worried about it, as they are simple 4mm E Clips that can be found at any hobby store, but it's annoying.




    I will choose a stainless steel as the material, for strength and some flexibility. I will be reinforcing the weak spots in the design (adding chamfers/fillets as needed), as best as I can, without interfering with function.
    Last edited by 328 Power 04; 12-07-2016 at 09:40 AM.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  3. #28
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    Abel,
    Thanks again for doing all this, way beyond the call of duty. .062" is dinky tooling, sounds like something you would use in a Dremel tool.

  4. #29
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    I hope to get the CNC loaded sometime for a few trials, and hopefully get some cool videos of the parts being made, at the same time.
    I will try to keep costs down, and as is the manner with CNCs, the price gets better with higher quantity.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  5. #30
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    Thanks for the update. Sounds like they should be pretty solid!

    2000 Estoril Blue Z3M Coupe

  6. #31
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    Here is what a typical Z3 sunroof slider looks like. It is warped, contributing to a difficult sliding, which eventually helps it break. If you try to straighten it, it will fracture.

    The slider is a cast metal, with plastic coated slider 'feet', and a somewhat springy plastic arch to prevent rattles. Mine broke.


    Looking into the proper materials... possibly a stainless, or maybe a self oiling bronze. I don't want the slider to eat into the rail with use.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by 328 Power 04; 12-12-2016 at 03:12 PM.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  7. #32
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    Proposed design.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: png 1.png (333.7 KB, 52 views)
    • File Type: png 2.png (449.3 KB, 46 views)
    • File Type: png 3.png (565.5 KB, 40 views)
    • File Type: png 4.png (507.8 KB, 40 views)
    • File Type: png 5.png (588.6 KB, 39 views)
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  8. #33
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    Arlington, VA
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    2000 Z3 Coupe, M Coupé

    More Interest

    The design looks great. Being a custom part for a low production car, numbers won't be that high. On their other hand, most Coupés, Z or M, need this part. I expect to be in for two.

  9. #34
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    99-01 M Cpe & Rdts, X5M
    Looks nice; I'd have just hacked 'em out of a chunk of aluminum

    How far along are you on the cable retention design and application? That's kind of where I expected the trouble to manifest itself, short of using some kind of compact hydraulic crimping die.

  10. #35
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    Ya, for the last 4 hours, I've been searching for 2.5mm or 2.7mm cable crimp ends, that can be used to replace the original end caps. Factory steel rope used seems to be around 0.100 to 0.110". And the OD has to fit the 0.225" channel.

    I was going to try removing the original end stop, and seeing if it can be re-crimped.

    You can probably crimp them with blunt cutting pliers, in factory style (3 indentations, hardly looks hydraulic)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Do you think aluminum would hold up well? It would make machining a bit easier, less endmill loss.
    Last edited by 328 Power 04; 12-12-2016 at 09:01 PM.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  11. #36
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    To be honest, my expectations would be limited to their installation, and then motoring the glass closed__never to be raised again! There actually are some high(er) wear-resistant aluminum alloys; without doing any research, 7075 might be a good choice (most common for easy welding/machining is 6061).While we could use something like Oetiker pliers to crimp the plugs, I'm sure BMW's subcontractors were held to consistency specs; my money says they were crimped by a machine.
    Last edited by shogun; 10-19-2021 at 01:10 AM.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328 Power 04 View Post
    Ya, for the last 4 hours, I've been searching for 2.5mm or 2.7mm cable crimp ends, that can be used to replace the original end caps. Factory steel rope used seems to be around 0.100 to 0.110". And the OD has to fit the 0.225" channel.

    I was going to try removing the original end stop, and seeing if it can be re-crimped.

    You can probably crimp them with blunt cutting pliers, in factory style (3 indentations, hardly looks hydraulic)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Do you think aluminum would hold up well? It would make machining a bit easier, less endmill loss.
    This is way over my head, but I just wanted to say thanks, I hope this happens!



    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    To be honest, my expectations would be limited to their installation, and then motoring the glass closed__never to be raised again! There actually are some high(er) wear-resistant aluminum alloys; without doing any research, 7075 might be a good choice (most common for easy welding/machining is 6061).

    While we could use something like Oetiker pliers to crimp the plugs, I'm sure BMW's subcontractors were held to consistency specs; my money says they were crimped by a machine.
    Hey Randy, my sunroof is stuck open, I tried the 'trick' of pushing on one side and such, it wont budge. If I remove the headliner will I be able to drop it down into the track (or something of that sort)? I dont care about opening it at this point, but I'd like it to be shut. Thank god I live in Arizona haha.
    Last edited by ///36M; 12-29-2016 at 03:08 PM.
    Reigning and Longest Tenured OT President to Date

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ///36M View Post
    Hey Randy, my sunroof is stuck open, I tried the 'trick' of pushing on one side and such, it wont budge. If I remove the headliner will I be able to drop it down into the track (or something of that sort)? I dont care about opening it at this point, but I'd like it to be shut. Thank god I live in Arizona haha.
    Bump
    Reigning and Longest Tenured OT President to Date

  14. #39
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    Bump

    2000 Estoril Blue Z3M Coupe

  15. #40
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    Logged on today because I was curious about the status of this as well.
    Last edited by shogun; 10-19-2021 at 01:10 AM.
    Reigning and Longest Tenured OT President to Date

  16. #41
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    Back burner, but not given up on.

    It will likely be aluminum.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  17. #42
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    It is starting to get warm here so I dug this post out of page 19 in hopes of jump starting the Kinnematics quest.
    How's it going?

  18. #43
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    Bump

  19. #44
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    A little bump and thank you for your research from France where we have exactly the same issue...

    The whole Z3 club France would be interested !

  20. #45
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    Clover, South Carolina
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    I stumbled on the other "Sunroof stuck open" thread a few weeks back and thought, "I should lube mine before . . ." and now I'm here! Glad to see the project isn't dead, and thanks for putting all the time and effort into keeping our cars on the road a functional. I did manage to get mine down with some lube and a not-so-gentle bump to get it over the locking hump, so for now, all is good. I used a narrow brass drift to push the pin that slides in the arm that raises the glass until it would no longer fit. At that point, it's nearly fully closed so just kept bumping from the top until it popped into locked position. You can definitely count me in for the finished product!

  21. #46
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    Coming from a manufacturing perspective this component is kind of a hassle for low scale reproduction. The metal body looks die cast. It's a good candidate for CNC but the problem for me stems from what looks like the overmolded POM tabs. That's going to be tough to recreate in low volume at a reasonable cost. I wonder if the whole part could be cut in GFPA and bulked up in the known failure points. Otherwise this part will cost a fortune to spin out in low volume.

    Edit: That, or you CNC the slider, and have the tabs or 'boots' CNC'd out of POM and slip them over the tabs. Another problem is crimping the steel cable. Making this more of a send in for rebuild with a member who has a decent shop than than a quick DIY for your average weekend wrencher.

    The initial investment is going to be huge relatively speaking for figuring this out.

    Is there any chance BMW could be convinced to sell just this failed part?

    Sent from my RS988 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by BrightEs; 11-27-2017 at 11:19 AM.
    2001 M Coupe Titanium Silver

  22. #47
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    Any news on this thing? Anyone have a line of sight to making a couple custom brackets?

  23. #48
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    Subscribed, looking forward to the progress!

  24. #49
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    Wow. I just picked up my z3 coupe and was overjoyed at the "simplicity" of the sunroof when compared to the shit design of the e46 chassis sunroof. That thing was designed to fail with the driving mechanism only powering one side. I figured the Z3 coupe sunroof would be bullet proof considering it only pops open an inch or three. Finding this thread is both depressing but also enlightening. It is incredible the amount of effort put forth by enthusiasts! Looking forward to the final product, although I hoping my 48k mile 3.0i Coupe won't need it anytime soon. Although I will most definitely pick one up because I now know it *will* fail.

  25. #50
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    Just a little more information about the sunroof... I went to my trusted mechanic yesterday to pick my car up after some routine maintenance. I was just curious the cost of having my sunroof repaired. Allegedly there are no more replacements motors here in the United States! I ordered one from Germany and was told that they had a very limited supply of motors left. Now I’m debating on buying two!

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