Sunroof Kinematics

[gjrose]

I have payment ready whenever you are, I will happily test them. My coupe is out of commission until I can fix my sunroof and am desperate to get it back on the road! Great job on everything and thankyou!

[Tim95M3]

Another guy here that's in for two sets, whenever they're ready. Hell, even if they're not ready I'm down to be a beta tester.

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[ddbaker3]

Hi everyone, quick update. I'm going to include a replacement motor cover and two extra captured M5 nuts that are at the ends of the aluminum channel. These will be really cheap and won't affect the price of the kit at all.

I realized that without the cover, the motor gear and cables are pretty exposed to the elements with the glass open. All of the original plastic will most likely break while making this repair so I'll provide a way to cover it back up. The new cover has been designed to be shorter and it won't include the molded-in nuts like the OE one. You should be able to use the original brass fasteners like I've shown in other pictures and the instruction video, and this won't interfere with those.

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The extra captured M5 nuts could be an alternative to the brass fasteners for the motor or to just have as extras. I don't want to leave anyone without enough hardware to put things back together once they've started. My coupe is my only car and I have to park outside, so I can relate to needing to use the car for work the next day or trying to finish a job before bad weather.

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A few people were asking about the hardware and I'll be sourcing it from McMaster-Carr. I'll still have the shoulder bolts included and I've switched over to a Nyloc nut to make sure it won't come loose. As for completely removing the glass, I'd recommend the tools shown in the next picture. These also came from McMaster, but I'm sure you could get them from other places. It's a longer reaching flat head screw driver and a 5.5mm nut driver and I'll keep them in my car somewhere. This solution definitely isn't the most refined, but it'll at least give you the option. If you want these exact ones from McMaster, the part numbers are 52965A17 and 52985A47.

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Here is everything that is included in the final kit. The actual color of the plastic pieces will be much closer to black. The ones shown here are gray to make sure the pictures above were easier to understand. And a big thank you to Randy Forbes for helping me with the Super Lube packets.

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Thanks again for all of the kind words and support. I've got a running list of everyone who has commented on this thread and I'll be ready to take orders in the next day or so. I'll create a post in the classifieds section.

[JBZ4]

I really appreciate all the time and energy you put into bringing this to a finished product. Looking forward to finally be able to use my sunroof. JB

[MrManFitz]

Can you post the link to the classifieds ad? I can't seem to find it.


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[Tim95M3]

Can you post the link to the classifieds ad? I can't seem to find it.


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11 posts down from this one.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...MW-54108410693

[idreamofevos]

You guys are going to love this…

So about 10 years ago I brought Coupe into the shop to have them look at the moonroof operation. They told me the problem was the kinematics, gave me the price of the repair and reco’d I just close the roof and leave it, which I did.

Cut to today and I’m super stoked to fix this thing thanks to David’s killer kit. I get the repair underway, alls going well, start disassembling the rail… and what’s this… there’s only 1 cable!! The shop either forgot to put the driver side cable back in… or they thought it was damaged and unusable and tossed it. Either way… I’m short one cable with a disassembled moonroof. Can’t freaking believe it…

Any ideas on how to put my hands on one of these cables or repurpose one from elsewhere?

[ddbaker3]

That's bad news to be missing a cable, maybe that shop still has it sitting up on some shelf somewhere?

At first I thought it was a pretty strange concept for a part, but it seems like after some searching, a lot of Euro companies use this spiral cable. I did have some luck searching for the terms "BMW sunroof cable" or "sunroof bowden cable". I'm assuming that they'll be specific to that car and will need modification, but since the coupe is somewhat of a parts bin idea, I figured the e36 would be a good place to start. I'm not sure how you'd verify, but as long as the spacing between the spirals and the overall diameter is the same, you could probably make it work. It looks like the e36 one is much longer.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/54128206388/

[Tim95M3]

I'm sure the cable is coupe specific, as it's very short. Sucks that that happened. I even had that thought while I was repairing mine... Man if I mess this cable up I'm really screwed!

[s8ilver]

Ugh, and of course OE kinematics are, ahem, $1,245 now.

At least you still have one to measure. I assume they're the same length.

Do both ends look the same? I haven't done my repair yet. There are some E34 cables on eBay for $40; might be worth trying to replicate what you have.

[idreamofevos]

UPDATE… oh man, do I have good news for anyone who may have a damaged or MISSING bowden cable.

I crossed my fingers and ordered a bowden cable set for an E36 sunroof. Part # 54128206388 at about $80. As luck would have it (and logic would suggest), the bowden cables used in the E36 are the same diameter and have the same spacing in the spiral. So all that needs to be done is to cut the cable to match (not easy), strip the spiral off to expose enough cable to clip into the guide and cap the cable on the cut end. Done and done. Cable replaced.

[ddbaker3]

That's awesome! Thank you for taking a chance on the E36 cable and giving this a try. It's good to know that there are still options out there.

[idreamofevos]

Mission accomplished. Sunroof kinematics back from the dead. It wasn’t easy. For one, the new slides were just a tiny bit too snug on both sides. So had to just grind them down a smidge to allow them to slide freely inside the rail. Next challenge… one of the kinematics arms was in poor shape. A little bent and roughed up by the previous damage. Had to gently hammer it back into shape. Then the pin fell out that connects the arm to its slide… almost lost that. Had to push it back in and hope the sides of the rail keep it in place. Finally got it all back together and working. Said no thank you to trying to get those last e-clips back on and just used the quick release pins. They seem to be fine. Happy to have it all back together again and working pretty well. Thanks for putting in the research and work on this. Next up… replacing the center console trim around the shift boot where it was damaged by the dreaded rear-view mirror leak. That part shouldn’t be more than say… $2k.

[MrManFitz]

Pardon my ignorance, but how do you get the sunroof lifted out of the car? Does it involve getting into the headliner? I can't seem to find any instructions about this. All of the discussion I've found focuses on the actual fix of the broken parts, but not how to get the sunroof out.

[ddbaker3]

I believe I responded through email, but for anyone else as future reference:

They were pushing the sunroof open button and nothing was happening aside from a clicking noise. The sunroof wasn’t moving at all. That clicking sound is the motor teeth skipping because I’m willing to bet the sunroof cables and sliders are absoutely stuck.

If you droop the headliner by removing those two push fasteners by the “hump” in the headliner and possibly a few other trim pieces, you should be able to see the hardware that holds the whole track in place. I believe there are 6 bolts total, 4 that bolt the sunroof slider track to the car, and 2 for the motor. Hopefully you can reach these with the glass in place and then the whole glass + track assembly should come out together as one item.

Otherwise, I think you’ll have to use a bit of pressure to push up on the sunroof while pressing the open button. Hopefully that would be enough to persuade the sliders to move and open up. Use steady pressure, but be ready just in case the sliders let go and it’s free to move again. The whole range of motion is only about 2 inches upwards.

[MrManFitz]

Having a heck of a time with this dang sunroof.

1. Removed trim pieces from headliner: passenger roof handle, passenger sun visor, driver visor, two fasteners around the sunroof motor
2. Gained access to bolts holding the track to the sunroof and unscrewed them (there were 4).
3. Tried to push the glass up while holding the switch. Absolutely no give. I tried to "crow bar" the window away from the track and still didn't budge one bit.
4. Tried unscrewing the motor from the tracks using T25 torx and a mini offset ratchet (to squeeze in the tight space). The left one stripped, the right one ratchets counter-clockwise indefinitely, the middle one rotates freely. None of this loosened the motor case one bit.

The cables are clearly extended far too much towards the doors of the car. One end of the cable is jammed under the window weather stripping.

Any ideas?

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[ddbaker3]

Oh man, sorry to hear that it's giving you so much trouble.

The two outer torx screws are what hold the motor in place and the center part that spins freely is the motor shaft. I think the reason that one of the torx is spinning is because the captured nut on the other side has broken away from the plastic. So the only thing that should be keeping you from removing the glass with the track attached to it are those two screws unfortunately.

I can't really think of many options other than drilling out the heads so that you can drop the motor and remove everything together. Those two screws do have to be removed at some point to complete the job.

[MrManFitz]

Thanks for the support.

Yes, when I loosen the one bolt, I can see the cover on top of the motor being pushed up by the loose nut.

I'll see if I can clamp the T25 into the screw to get it to budge. If drilling out the screws is my only option then I think I'll abandon. Don't really feel like pulling down the entire headliner to do that.


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[MrManFitz]

I'm happy to report that I got the sunroof removed. Basically, the sliders and cables were jammed in there really tightly, so nothing was moving. I pushed and pushed and eventually it budged a little, at which point I could fit a tool between the track and the glass to force the sliders into the "up" position. Man, what a relief that was. Eventually I slide the motor and track out and the install went as expected....

Until I went to push my headliner back up and encountered two issues:
1. My plastic clips were broken (not the end of the world since I assume these can be replaced)
2. Somehow the sunroof motor is off-center from the bulge in the headliner.

I'm confused how the motor could be off center. Everything else went back on as expected, but the headliner will definitely not push back into place. What the heck did I do wrong? Did I mount the track backwards? Yup, I mounted the track backwards (!).
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[Z3CoupeDakar]

Hey Folks,

I ordered this repair kit from David and it is excellent. Just finished my coupe a few minutes ago.

Hopefully I can help some others with this advice:

1). I didn’t need to undo the roof liner but for the two clips holding the liner at the motor. Undo these and I had more than enough room. I did not remove any other clips or handles just the two at the edges of the motor. As noted a 8mm ratcheting wrench would be perfect here but I used a basic old 8mm wrench without issues too.

2). I removed all four bolts holding the slider down and then was able to rotate the motor up and undo its two T25’s easily and separate it from the motor.

3). After disassembling everything and cleaning it I started assembly with a bit of filing to one ends slider as it was a bit tight. I noted scuff marks from the original in the same spot it was dragging so it was nothing to do with the repair parts. Once filed a bit it slid perfectly.

4). I recall reading to make sure you have the sliders in the same exact location or the top with be uneven in its opening and closing. I made sure it was even by moving everything to the fully open position on the slider as I had used the motor to open it fully before the repair and wanted it to go back the same.

5). I had ONE ISSUE which was one slider was 1/16” off on one side when attempting to put the four bolts back. I removed the motor again and realigned and then realized that you can use the bolts that hold the arms down at each end to hold everything in alignment so I put the two of them back and installed the motor again to the track while being positive of the location of the arm above its hole because the bolt was in it. Once the motor was back in I then removed the two bolts from the tracks arms again and installed everything with ease. I did all of this without pulling the liner down any further than the two clips at its center. (The two clips holding the liner up are accessible from the tracks top as well so just push the center of it down as its a pin and the clip can be removed with ease. Just slide the pin back into the clip once reinstalled.)

This was amazingly easier than everything I have read and literally took me about an hour and half taking my time.

I have had an excellent day working on my Dakar Yellow Coupe with a big smile as it was a joy to use such a great kit!

David is a class act and has become a car buddy that I hope to meet one day in the near future!

Thank you again David and have no hesitation guys as the kit is worth every dime as is Davids advice!

Good luck! Your Coupe will thank you later!

[JBZ4]

Great news and added write-up. Getting ready to tackle this when the weather gets a bit cooler here in Florida!

[ddbaker3]

Thank you Z3CoupeDakar for the detailed post and review of the repair kit! I’m sure that this write-up will help anyone who has not yet taken on this job. As always, please reach out to me via PM or email and I’m happy to answer any questions or to take specific pictures/videos to help with installation.

p.s. to anyone who has purchased the repair kit and used the quick release pins. Driving with the glass fully removed is so much fun and I highly recommend it!

[Z3CoupeDakar]

Happy to give a hand and you aren’t too far away as well.

[JBZ4]

Happy to give a hand and you aren’t too far away as well.

Damn, might have to hit you up if I questions. Northeast Florida seems to be a bit scarce in coupe sightings!

[Z3CoupeDakar]

JBZ4,

You ain’t kiddin and Ya should be out here where they run us off the road because we aren’t a pick-up truck! Wish it was a lie!
Only nice comment I had was an old lady and she about hit us to tell us she loved the car!

Happy to help if you need it and we should meet up someday as I am an old retired Porsche mechanic and still turn wrench’s on my fleet… the coupe and my 05 Mercedes CL55AMG.