2001 540i Dinan Flywheel clutch issues

[killian665]

I have a 2001 540i that I semi recently acquired a Dinan Stage 2 flywheel for. This is the true single mass billet flywheel, not the stage 1 lightened OE dual mass.

I want a sprung hub clutch kit for this flywheel but I'm finding that next to no one makes one for this car except UUC and they're junk so that's not even an option. Spec and Clutch Masters both make sprung hub kits for my car but say I must use their flywheel and after comparing mine to theirs I see that the center section of their flywheel is machined down and the Dinan is not. From what I've gathered the Dinan was designed to be used with the factory ridgid clutch disc (why they'd think that was a good idea I have no idea.)

So my question is, does anyone know if there's a Sachs or Luk part number or product from some reputable company for a sprung hub clutch kit for an E39 540 or I guess M5 since it's the same clutch practically.

[geargrinder]

Ha ha I always point out how many low miles used UUC clutches hit the market...

The lightened flywheel can be used w/ non-sprung hub, but it is more noisy and vibey. I agree the right thing to do is use a springer but its not the end of the world to do otherwise.

Weird messages you are getting from the clutch people.

As long as it takes a normal E39M5/E46M3 type clutch fitment (and trusting your info there, I have no knowledge of the Dinan unit), there should be no reason why you cant use any of the known aftermarket guys, and many of them offer the same pressure plate with different interchangeable clutch disks. I run the JBRacing and have run it with 3 clutches starting with the OEM M5 unit which frankly was 100% fine even if the gear lash noise was a little higher.

If you got just some non-mechanical non-tech phone-monkey on the line ("Hi this is Jared and I don't know crap about cars but got hired to work at the call center for Bob's Clutch House yesterday, how can I help you?") then I could see them parroting a "must use only our stuff" message incorrectly.

I ran a Southbend Stage 2 Endurance for a while, did not work out well for me (didn't hold, got warranty response from them but required me to pony up money too and it all just left a bad taste in my mouth, so I ended up going another way and I have a brand brand brand new one in box untouched in the basement... actually come to think of it if you're interested then PM me... then again I also have the M5 unsprung in the basement with only a few thousand miles... )

At this point, I am running a SPEC Stage 2.5 which is a sprung hub kevlar. I love it but it does have a kevlar 'squeak' for the first couple shifts when cold. Im kinda used to it but would prob go Stage 3 next time just to get rid of that. Any of those SPEC clutches would definitely work for you - assuming you're right and this takes an OEM fitment. The SPEC clutches just require you specify the sprung up disk when you order it. Easy and peasy.

HTH. The LWFW is a great upgrade, other 540 guys always instantly comment on how much better the engine feels when they get behind my wheel...

[killian665]

I had my heart set on a Spec Stage 1 forever since I'd gotten this flywheel. I went to order it today and asked that I receive the sprung hub version of the kit for my car. They told me that it only comes with their flywheel and that they can only verify fitment of it to their flywheel. Whether this was a marketing thing or a true design difference I don't know. But I've since called them and asked someone else.

The second guy was much more helpful. He said that they do indeed usually only send the sprung hub version when people order their flywheel. But he also said they have one other verified flywheel that it fits, the JB Racing one. I considered selling the Dinan one for a JB racing prior to that information.

My thinking though is that on JB Racing's website, one of their selling points is that their flywheel can be used with the factory clutch. The Dinan one, was also designed to use the factory clutch even though I can't imagine why you'd want to. So if the two can use the factory clutch, and the SPEC clutch fits the JB Racing then j don't see why it wouldn't fit the Dinan. My only concern is that when I look at the pictures of the Spec, JB Racing or Clutch Masters flywheels, they all the center section machined down to kind a of a concave bowl like shape. The Dinan one does not which is got me second guessing about what would and would not fit it.

- - - Updated - - -

Although upon further investigating the pictures of their flywheels all seem to be stock photos and may not be exactly what mine would look like if I were to order from them. It just looked like they machined that down for a purpose to fit the spring pack or something on a sprung clutch disc. I'd hate to order a clutch kit and pay shipping only to have to pay return shipping because it doesn't fit.

[auaq]

Quick question.

What's the difference between the M5 and non-M5 slave cylinder? I see they both have different p/n. M5 is exclusive while the non-M is found in many BMW's.

[killian665]

The M5 and 540 share the exact same clutch except the M5 has a marginally higher clamping pressure plate. So the slave cylinder is different to provide a little more assist than the 540 to keep the pedal feel the same.

[geargrinder]

Duder. Seriously if the dinan FW takes a factory clutch 99.9% it will take another factory compatible. As I said already. Post up a pic of the dinan if you are concerned... Happy to eyeball the situation.

[killian665]

Here is what I have.



This is the JB Racing one.

See how the center section is dished out on the JB racing. It's a lot lower than the Dinan one.

[geargrinder]

Yeah that's weight reduction not clearance. You have a nice big center bore, I don't see any challenge w the clutch disk center fitting there.

Pretty much sure (3rd time now ) you'll have no issue w a Spec.

Your biggest problem however is... The friction surface is FUERKD-UP. It is overheated and torched. That thing was ABUSED bro.

You should contact dinan and have it replaced before even thinkin of spending money on using it with a new clutch and installation. The typical routine is send it back to the mfr, who will install the new plate and rebalance it.

[killian665]

Oh yeah I know. It came out of a supercharged 5.0 540i. Car got wrecked, motor blew up, long story short I have the flywheel. But they beat the crap out of it while they had it. It has some discoloration but the mating surface otherwise is pretty new. There's a local shop down here that resurfaces flywheels and builds race clutches and what not, was gonna have them just resurface the existing surface rather than go through the hassle of having it all out replaced. Maybe if it had more miles but it was only a couple thousand.

[geargrinder]

Ahh. One of those "not gonna really tell the full story up front" situations.

No. Wrong.

That FW is torched. You're fooling yourself otherwise.

You don't machine resurface an aluminum flywheel. You replace the steel friction surface.
You could try but it's a super thin and any legit machine shop should turn you away.

Suspect none of that will change your mind - since you were all wound up about the cost of return shipping I can see now you're just trying to get a hunka junk to work for no moneh. So. Whatevs. Best of luck.

[itsbrokeagain]

What GG said. Spec should have a 'OEM fitment flywheel' option on their website. You really have to look and confirm before you buy it though, it can be confusing.

They have that for the E9x chassis, they make a flywheel that fits their specific clutch plate, and one for OEM stepped plates. Ask me how I know.....

And yes that thing is torched. You put it in, it will eat up your new clutch and shorten it's lifespan...

[geargrinder]

Not to mention, won't hold for shiz.

Must say i am now intrigued by the "5.0 540 SC wreck" story. Not many 540 5.0's. Not Eric Ballard's car was it? He suddenly disappeared a few years ago just before finishing a big rebuild.

[killian665]

I have no problem having the whole surface replaced if need be but based on how it looks and feels I don't think it will be necessary. The Dinan rep I called about it initially when trying to find out if it could be used with aftermarket clutches didn't even know what I was talking about at first. Said he'd have to go back in his old records to see who even made them for Dinan because he said he knew they didn't. So obvious hassle number 1, they have to find out who to even send it to. But if the machine shop says it needs it then it'll get replaced, it's not about saving money, I'm past that with this car.

Also regarding the different flywheels they offer, SPEC only offers one flywheel for my car. Given the fact that their sprung hub clutch disc, which is what I'm after, fits the JB Racing flywheel I believe it will also fit mine.

The 5.0 540 I don't know much about. It's not Eric Ballards although I've talked to him a decent amount over the past few months. This one was made by a shop down here in Georgia, it had a custom crankshaft made for it, custom cams, supercharger, all that crap I'd never in my right mind ever waste money on in a 540. It got wrecked somehow and the engine was blown up and most of it parted out.

[geargrinder]

based on how it looks and feels I don't think it will be necessary.

Yeah, no, that FW is torched.

Based on how it LOOKS especially it's torched, and don't need to feel it.
You are completely and utterly wrong about that.
That surface is contaminated with clutch material and the metallurgy of the plate is probably forked from overheat.
There is no question whatsoever about this.

Again. If you put that in, it wont hold well and will wear your clutch, and will rapidly deteriorate. Once a clutch/FW is 'ruined' on the surface like that, it isn't going to engage or hold properly until its resurfaced.

Re: ID'ing it...
The very sharply square slots around the perimeter + 18 bolt count + flat surface in the middle are very distinctive. The JBR's have a high bolt count but only 16.
The UUC 'normal' (not 'ultimate') LWFW seems to have 18 bolts. Maybe they made it... could be theirs is a later revision to the Dinan design but the friction surface is the same.

You might call JBR and see if they can help. If the plate dimensions are the same, maybe they can custom drill one for you. Or maybe they have another plate that is same dimensions.

More importantly... So what is Eric up to? Is his car finished or mothballs or abandoned or what?

[killian665]

I'll call Dinan again today or the shop that built the car it came from and see if they can't tell me what to do with it. The first guy I spoke with on the phone didn't really seem to know much.

[geargrinder]

Yeah I think what you are hoping for is "getting an old timer" on the line that remembers those units and something about them. With luck he says "oh yeah we sourced those from ClutchMasters / F1 / whoever, they should still have the plans for the parts and may have spares..." The 'new' Dinan has completely punted on support of all old cars and older parts really. They'll sell the software and what parts they have still lying around, but seems like they are selling out the inventory only and then walking away from anything older. Shame.

[dk500]

I thrash my JBR flywheel with my M5 clutch and it has held up for the past 10k miles. Mostly track thrashing, but a few accidental WOT clutch slip (me slipping it) too and it has held up

[geargrinder]

Hey OP, asked around yesterday and somebody suggested maybe Fidanza made that FW for Dinan, as they made other LWFW for them and make them for UUC apparently. Worth looking into.

[killian665]

Sorry for the late reply but yeah I've since handled it. You were right Fidanza did make it. Ended up having to call Dinan, then Fidanza. Got the part number for a new friction surface and ordered that. Bought the Spec Stage 1 sprung hub clutch kit and it fits perfectly. So I worried for nothing. So if anyone with a 540i wants a lightweight flywheel and the proper sprung clutch set up that isn't a POS UUC system, the Spec part number for a stage 1 is SB131S. The S on the end stands for sprung so that's important.

It is not listed in their system you have to call for this because they usually only sell it with their flywheels. They had to manually enter it into their inventory when I had it ordered.

[geargrinder]

Nice! Love it when some stuff works out. Being able to buy a friction surface is a huge bonus for LWFW's IMO. Yeah I'm hugely happy w/ my SPEC although the Kevlar is 'squeaky' when cold and that's a little itrritating.

[killian665]

I haven't had a chance to put it in yet but I'm sure I'll be happy with it. Been trying to sort out some coilover noise I made another thread about that's been taking up all my time.

[TheOz]

So I am installing the same flywheel today. I am using a SPEC stage 3+ full face (double sprung hub) clutch. My car isn't supercharged at the moment, but someday I hope it will be, so I am installing a clutch that's a bit overkill at the moment.

Just wondering if you enjoyed this flywheel?

Thanks!!

Mike

I have a 2001 540i that I semi recently acquired a Dinan Stage 2 flywheel for. This is the true single mass billet flywheel, not the stage 1 lightened OE dual mass.

I want a sprung hub clutch kit for this flywheel but I'm finding that next to no one makes one for this car except UUC and they're junk so that's not even an option. Spec and Clutch Masters both make sprung hub kits for my car but say I must use their flywheel and after comparing mine to theirs I see that the center section of their flywheel is machined down and the Dinan is not. From what I've gathered the Dinan was designed to be used with the factory ridgid clutch disc (why they'd think that was a good idea I have no idea.)

So my question is, does anyone know if there's a Sachs or Luk part number or product from some reputable company for a sprung hub clutch kit for an E39 540 or I guess M5 since it's the same clutch practically.

[JimLev]

Killian is now over on the E31 8 series forum, not sure he will see your post.
Might want to PM him to get your question answered.

[killian665]

I’m over here too.

To answer your question, I hated it. It was the worst possible modification I ever made to my car. It chattered like nothing I’ve ever heard before. If the car was running you could not hold a conversation with someone at the window or use the drive through at Wendy’s or wherever without turning the car off or putting your foot on the clutch. Was really amazed at that too because I spent the extra money by sourcing the sprung hub clutch set up from SPEC thinking it would kill any of the noise I’d read about instead of just using a stock style rigid hub. I could not imagine what a rigid hub must be like as far as noise and I would most assuredly want to kill myself every time I drove my car.

The clutch itself was garbage. The throw out bearing failed in like 2,000 miles. The clutch disc also would not grab evenly causing the shifting to be notchy and ultimately burnt the synchros up in my transmission, upon removal and inspection it was hot spotting half the flywheel mating surface and making no contact at all on the rest of it. At first I thought, installer error, redid it absolutely correct, same thing. Then I thought, flywheel is warped. Sent it to Fidanza, had them rebuild, clean and balance test it. It was perfect.

Problem ended up being the clutch kit was no good from SPEC but it fell outside their warranty period and I was so over it I just trashed the whole clutch kit, sold the flywheel and put stock stuff in it. Never looked back.

This would have been the second time I personally saw a SPEC throwout bearing fail prematurely and I’ve read about it even more. On a friend of mines E60 M5 who brought it in to the shop I work at, his bearing had detonated and destroyed the diaphragm of the pressure plate. I had never seen anything like it. And it’s weird too because the SPEC throwout bearing appears to be a very high quality unit. It’s a nice billet aluminum housing and everything. Turned out to be a turd.

I’m aware SPEC is used in literally thousands of cars, many of them full fledged race cars, but the 2 experiences I’ve had with the bearings and then my clutch kit personally, I’d never use them again. Nor would I ever put a lightweight flywheel in anything I own. It didn’t rev much faster and certainly not fast enough for me to overlook the noise.

[evomel]

Love my spec LW flywheel and stage 2 + clutch