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Thread: Swapping an E36 M42 in to my 78 E21

  1. #26
    Join Date
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    If don't see one listed I'd contact Mark and ask. I can say for the 91 M42 DME, the MarkD chip hands down is a better tune than the Turner/conforti, The lady's 318i car had a Turner chip for 12yrs then switched to MarkD also. Much better idle, low and midrange with the same topend as the Turner tune without pinging in summers heat. Most noticeable where we live driving mountain roads with high loads, then higher revs and speeds jumping on interstates. The first chip I had in my 318is was a Dinan. Since the car originally came from CA was a 91 octane version and didn't fit the bill.

    Nothing against Turner himself, I've bought plenty from there in the heyday. but some chips do have harsh timing curves, and not optimized mid range where the MarkD really shines. Should also note that Turner sold the business to ESCtuning in recent years so now it's just a sister site.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  2. #27
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    1982 323i 2003 325it
    http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/products.htm

    He has e36 cars listed in his product line up, but yea, definitely contact him. He's really good with communications, as I had a bunch of questions about my 535is that he answered quickly.

    Cheers.
    Past, Present, and Future

    1974 BMW 2002tii (RIP)
    1995 BMW 325is w/ FULL S50 swap, track prepped (SOLD)
    1988 BMW 325ix Zinno/Black (RIP)
    1988 BMW 325ix Alpine/Black (Sold)
    1988 BMW 535is Alpine/Pacific Blue (Going Away...)
    1982 BMW 323i (Current Project/Paper Weight)
    2003 BMW 325i Sport Touring (Daily Driver)

  3. #28
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    Anyone have any recommendations on best steps to keep my car from deteriorating or protecting it from atrophy during a rebuild? Ive been turning the car and running it for a few minutes every week or so, but now I think I'm going to 'put it in storage' mode, filling the tanks, putting in sta-bil and trickle charging the battery. Anything else I should consider?

  4. #29
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    Quote Originally Posted by jaredmac11 View Post
    Anyone have any recommendations on best steps to keep my car from deteriorating or protecting it from atrophy during a rebuild? Ive been turning the car and running it for a few minutes every week or so, but now I think I'm going to 'put it in storage' mode, filling the tanks, putting in sta-bil and trickle charging the battery. Anything else I should consider?

    There are easy button ways. I had luxury of putting one of my cars in a bubble most of the years I was gone. Keeps filtered airflow around the car. Benefits are seals and rubber looks as good as the day put it in. There are much cheaper and easier methods and ideas since bubbles run several hundred bucks. Car Capsule is one I used if go that route. Biggest thing is if plan to run it again yes use stabil, but if storing more than 1yr buy the Marine stabil not the off the shelf stuff cause it doesn't last as long. Make sure and run it around awhile to work the stabil mixture through the entire fuel system before parking. Depending on how long again on sitting change the oil before driving the stabil around and parking.

    Most important IMO is when pulling out of long storage. If it's been a long time I like to pull the spark plugs and change the oil before it even moves. With the plugs out and fuel pump disconnected; crank over the motor until have oil pressure. Then put in a fresh set of plugs, fire up and drive some old fuel out until can top off with fresh gas. Change the fuel filter after that.
    Keeping the plugs out until have oil gives the bearings a chance to live ie no compression.

    If your gone several years at least rotate the engine by hand a half turn or so to move the valve springs . If longer that that you'll maybe want to take the plugs out and drop a few ounces of marvel mystery oil in there for a few weeks then run. Free's the rings.

    I'm in the camp of running a car is worse than storage. Just firing and idling, not driving till full temp under load then storing between is just causing more problems later.

    Forgot yes fill the tanks to max or the inside that sees air will rust. Usually the first thing to go after storage is the in-tank fuel pump will be destroyed by fine rust particles.
    Last edited by autox320; 01-19-2017 at 11:48 AM.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  5. #30
    Join Date
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    What in the hell am I getting myself in to...
    This has been the slowest rebuild, partially because I'm way over budget and I'm just at the rebuild, partially because I timed this perfectly with having a child.

    Do these pictures show up for yall?

    m42 shiney.jpg
    m42 timing case.jpg
    m42 almost there.jpg
    Fixing some nasty remnants of a failed oil pan gasket job
    oilpan stripped.jpg

    Had to use the E30 Pulleys, alternator, and alternator mount. Just because of a damn dip stick!
    e21 m42 pulleys.jpg
    But really, the e36 oil pan is much deeper than the E30, hence having to use the E30 oil pan. I could have trimmed the E36 dip stick, but its a much different dipstick all together, so I wanted to use the E30 dipstick. However, the E36 alternator bracket gets in the way of the E30 dipstick, so I had to use the E30 alt. bracket, which means I had to use the E30 alternator. E30 alternator has a much narrower belt drive than the E36, which means I had to use the E30 pulley system as well. Honestly, just went this route because my buddy dropped off three e30 M42s worth of parts and it was no problem. Easier than trying to modify everything.

    Should be noted if anyone sources an E36 M42. Im sure its no problem just bending the dipstick tube and hacking it up a bit, but I just wanted something a bit cleaner.




    And to think I havent even started the GD swap. Still a lot to do.
    If anyone has any specs or tips on building a subframe, please share. I will be leaning on area experts (my father, primarily) otherwise I am clueless.


    I only get to sneak in to the garage maybe 1-2 hours a week. I know these builds are a dime a dozen but it's been fun and I have to share.
    Last edited by jaredmac11; 04-14-2017 at 02:17 PM.

  6. #31
    Join Date
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    Portland, OR
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    1982 323i 2003 325it
    Yea, they show up.
    Past, Present, and Future

    1974 BMW 2002tii (RIP)
    1995 BMW 325is w/ FULL S50 swap, track prepped (SOLD)
    1988 BMW 325ix Zinno/Black (RIP)
    1988 BMW 325ix Alpine/Black (Sold)
    1988 BMW 535is Alpine/Pacific Blue (Going Away...)
    1982 BMW 323i (Current Project/Paper Weight)
    2003 BMW 325i Sport Touring (Daily Driver)

  7. #32
    Join Date
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    '78 320i
    Progress has been exceedingly slow. I've been sitting on a rebuilt M42 for a few months now. Just recently yanked out the M10, about a month ago.
    IMG_20170529_152410.jpg
    IMG_20170529_174737.jpg
    My wife throws a lot of shade when I disappear for a few hours and my hands are usually too tired after work to wrench so it's been... slow.

    That being said, I finally got the engine bay cleaned up enough to start doing some placement testing, at least I thought. Still have work to do to make any decent progress. Its tight in there and I dont even have the transmission on. Need to make more space.
    5042995189702810785-account_id=1.jpg
    IMG_20170624_164450.jpg

    Out of curiosity, did yall relocate the fuel lines a tad? It was a tight fit trying to get the M42 in. I may need to remove the horn on the subframe before I proceed further, then determine if I need to move in the fuel lines a cinch. Need to do new fuel lines anyways since the fuel tank went sour 2 years back.
    Last edited by jaredmac11; 06-24-2017 at 11:15 PM.

  8. #33
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    A few more updates.

    Found out that the 95 M42 is quite a complicated little ECM.

    In 1994, BMW began to use EWS (Electronische Wegfahrsperre, or Electronic Drive-away Protection). In 1/1995 BMW switched to EWS 2, a more complicated EWS system. EWS1 is a pretty simple check system. If the doors are double locked, you cant start the car. EWS 2 has multiple checks that all go to a EWS relay under the dash. That relay tells the ECM if the car is good to start or not.

    For people, like me, who are swapping an EWS2 engine in to a non-EWS chassis, its a problem.
    Fortunately there are many chips that do an EWS delete. I was already strongly considering a chip regardless, but now it is necessary. I'll kill two birds with 1 chip and get heightened performance with an EWS2 delete.

    For the record, any EWS1 system can work for the e21; this means 92-94 E36 M42 are completely valid swap candidates. 95 adds in even more complexities, and by the end of 95 they started moving to OBD 2 with the M44. So if you happen upon a cheap M42, I would strongly consider avoiding a 95 unless its close to free.


    Here are some resources if you ever find yourself wanting to pursue an e36 M42:
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...rmation-thread!

  9. #34
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    Almost feels silly updating this thread since progress is so slow. I cant recall all I did in July-Oct, not a whole lot. I dropped the crossmember and sent it off to a welder friend who has fabbed work for track and race cars. I feel like he did a great job.


    I wanted to get specs for this mount design but honestly the crossmember is so mishapen on one side it'd be very difficult. Maybe when I get the engine on it and the mounts in it I can get something, but hopefully you can tell by the way the crossmember ramps up on the front one side that its difficult to do this without doing a lot of cutting and trial placements.
    https://imgur.com/a/fUrMO

    ap5EAjc.jpg

    The files are pretty huge so I uploaded the album. Gotta spec out the holes for the mounts next....
    Last edited by jaredmac11; 10-28-2017 at 09:37 AM.

  10. #35
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    IMG_20171029_142520.jpg
    IMG_20171029_142923.jpg

    Got the engine in. Kind of a pain but all seems to work well. Still not 100% sure the intake will fit but I've got a half inch of play for now.

    I think that's the last time I drop the engine from the top. Going forward I'll be lifting the car and going in underneath

  11. #36
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    E21
    Hello , any updates ? I’m building a e21 with an m44 engine I don’t have enough knowledge on this so that’s why I wanted to do the swap to learn , if you have more pictures how you mounted your engine and how far back that’ll be grate ..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hello , any updates ? I’m building a e21 with an m44 engine I don’t have enough knowledge on this so that’s why I wanted to do the swap to learn , if you have more pictures how you mounted your engine and how far back that’ll be grate ..

  12. #37
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    Hey Alaan. I moved away from the E36 intake since its pretty big. Used the E36 head and block but the e30 intake. I also used the e30 ECU & wiring harness to suit up to the fuel rail, intake, etc etc etc. You'll also want the E30 oil sump. Also, I used the E30 pulley system since I wanted the car to look factory and the E36 pulley system gets in the way of the e30 dipstick.

    Finally, for the M42 timing case, I actually used some M42/M44 timing rail parts. The e36 M42 ditched the lower sprocket, but I found a cheap M44 timing rail so I swapped out some hardware to make it work. It all bolted in. I have more posts on r3vlimited... Ive forgotten it all now.

    I sent the original M10 subframe off to a welder friend to make up perches to modify the subframe. He did a great job. It wasnt 100% identical to my perches I made with cardboard but it was very close and worked perfectly.
    IMG_20171028_081109.jpgIMG_20171028_081118.jpg

    Ill try to get better pics of how far back it sits but the trans clears the steering rack. Its very far back, the intake pretty much sits on the firewell. You can tell the perches sit flush to the back of the subframe, I didnt extend them over.
    IMG_20180623_145147.jpg
    Last edited by jaredmac11; 04-20-2019 at 09:58 AM.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredmac11 View Post
    Hey Alaan. I moved away from the E36 intake since its pretty big. Used the E36 head and block but the e30 intake. I also used the e30 ECU & wiring harness to suit up to the fuel rail, intake, etc etc etc. You'll also want the E30 oil sump. Also, I used the E30 pulley system since I wanted the car to look factory and the E36 pulley system gets in the way of the e30 dipstick.

    Finally, for the M42 timing case, I actually used some M42/M44 timing rail parts. The e36 M42 ditched the lower sprocket, but I found a cheap M44 timing rail so I swapped out some hardware to make it work. It all bolted in. I have more posts on r3vlimited... Ive forgotten it all now.

    I sent the original M10 subframe off to a welder friend to make up perches to modify the subframe. He did a great job. It wasnt 100% identical to my perches I made with cardboard but it was very close and worked perfectly.
    IMG_20171028_081109.jpgIMG_20171028_081118.jpg

    Ill try to get better pics of how far back it sits but the trans clears the steering rack. Its very far back, the intake pretty much sits on the firewell. You can tell the perches sit flush to the back of the subframe, I didnt extend them over.
    IMG_20180623_145147.jpg







    Oh , you’ve done a pretty good jop I bought a z3 1996 Donor car and wanted to swap everything just as is , but I’ve installed the transmisión mounts ,was about to put the engine in and started thinking on the electrical stuff and I really don’t have enough knowledge on electrical stuff but im willing to learn that’s the reason for the swap , so I’ve started To dig in on the harness from the donors car and found out it’s a big mess of wires in there , and got really upset becouse I don’t really know how to do that , I’ve been searching but can’t really find anything , probably you could give me some information on how is the easiest and cheapest way to get the engine to run , still have all the z3 body... been talking with some buddies and they told me to go ls becouse they are Chevy guys,!but don’t really want to put a Chevy engine in a bmw car don’t want to disrespect the In that way becouse I’m not looking for power .... hope to read from you soon

  14. #39
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    In principle all you need is what the e21 had from the E36. I actually plotted out the 95 obd1 E36, I can share that and see if it's any help

    Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredmac11 View Post
    In principle all you need is what the e21 had from the E36. I actually plotted out the 95 obd1 E36, I can share that and see if it's any help

    Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk



    Can’t see the pic don’t know why

  16. #41
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    I'll have to try it on my PC then

    Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALAAAN333 View Post
    Can’t see the pic don’t know why
    So Im thinking more on this and my input would look more to an M52 swap for wiring help. It wont be exact but its likely That will give you an idea of how you can manage the wiring, more so than What I have. Its very likely BMW changes the coloring of the wires, and there will be more to sort out for the OBD2 setup. Further this is an untested draft. It's certainly not final . That being said, this is what I mapped out. Again its an M42 E36 from a 1995, OBD1. Not OBD2. Its very plausible the mapping is wholly irrelevant but some of it may be useful.

    E21 Connector, 15 pin # Engine Connector Color E36 X20, 25 pin # X20 Color Purpose
    1 Brown / Green 23 Brown/Grey Oil Pressure Switch
    3 Green/Black (larger gauge wire) 13 Green/violent Fuel Pump Power
    5 Blue 25 Blue Alternator Exciter
    6 Green/Violet 6 ??? Switched Power to O2 sensor heater
    8 Green 21 Green ECU Power
    10 Black/Yellow (larger gauge wire) 15 Black/Green Starter Signal
    13 Brown/White 12 Brown/Violet Coolant Temperature (Gauge)
    15 Black 20 Black/Green Tachometer


    In a cruel, glutton for punishment sense, I sorta enjoyed the wiring. The only thing I got wrong was the coil plug wiring. I had to swap out the coil plugs in a different order. Otherwise I got it right the first time but there was already some wiring diagrams to start with and the OBD1 1995 was pretty easy.

    One thing to note, you will likely need to delete EWS (anti theft device). EWS is wildly complicated later in the 90s. I think the early 90s was the only years that you could cut a wire to resolve the system, which means a chip tune to delete EWS.
    Last edited by jaredmac11; 04-29-2019 at 10:47 AM.

  18. #43
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    Number 6 connection for the o2 sensor isn't necessary as the engine harness supplies power to that without needing any connection to the fuse panel.

    Also make sure you put a fuse in the Fuel Pump circuit as the e21 and e30 both went different ways wiring it up.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  19. #44
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    Hey thankyou for all that, but I contact a company to delete the ews system but there charging me $680.00 and I think that’s a little too expensive it’s even more than what I paid for the engine.. I was thinking to look for a m42 that would be less complacated or what are your opinion ?

  20. #45
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    E30 m42 will absolutely be your best bet. $680 is wild. Call around. I had a buddy delete his ews from his m50 for like $80. It was local but still.

    Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

  21. #46
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    Well I will call around , but probably it’s easier for me 😅😅, or what other engine would you recommend ? The m50?

  22. #47
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    My recommendation is to map out the entire effort to get the drivetrain in. From subframe to the transmission to the driveshaft to the final gear. Look at the input needed to get the wiring together too. Also think about what you want from driving characteristics as well.

    M42 is a great light drivetrain but the timing case rebuild is very expensive. You need to be prepared to fabricate center support bearing mounts and modify the subframe. Stuff like that.

    There's good info for the m50 as well. Find someone who has done that swap and pick their brain. Ask for photo album etc.

    Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

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