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Thread: S54 in E36 M3, my turn

  1. #326
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    didnt get around to any of it today, kids wanted to have a snowball fight, then came to work, i'll be at it tomorrow for sure.
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  2. #327
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    Ok boys, here is what I know so far:

    changed the green relay relay on the harness, no change

    changed the blue blue relay on the harness, no change.

    pulled the #2 spark plug, used a dedicated ground with an alligator clip from the plug threads to a good ground(engine lift in front of motor).... I HAVE SPARK!!

    so, pulled the other plugs, plug tips appear wet. I’m thinking one of 2 things, too little fuel pressure, or faulty injectors. I have a strong gas smell, plugs are wet, fuel is getting there, what’s going on inside I don’t know.

    need to check fuel pressure next.

    on a side note, I did change the fuel pressure regulator rubber baskets and snap ring prior to install. FPR is a used piece from eBay, that part might be bad.

    Other known changes in the fuel system, used technicamotorsports fuel pump and sleeve, new fuel filter, had the injectors sent out to have them rebuilt but not flow matched/tested.
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  3. #328
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    Ok so I got a fuel pressure gauge from Oreillys, had a small small leak but still tested it.
    key on I was 40psi, cranking 75psi.

    Might be fuel injecotors?
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  4. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 Shifty View Post
    Ok so I got a fuel pressure gauge from Oreillys, had a small small leak but still tested it.
    key on I was 40psi, cranking 75psi.

    Might be fuel injecotors?
    Hmm crazy can't believe it hasn't started. How long do you crank for?

    Maybe the plugs are wet and it's flooded.

    What if you put your foot to the floor and have the throttle bodies fully open and crank?
    ()()===[][]===()()


  5. #330
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    throttle bodies wont open during cranking... i find that odd.. they open before cranking, and after... not during, ive cranked for a long time, 10-15 seconds.. no clue, this damn thing has me pissed off..

    so going to start looking at injectors, or the wiring to them.
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  6. #331
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    Unplug your MAF sensor and try to start the car for shits and giggles. It will do exactly what you're describing with a faulty MAF.
    Dave
    '18 RAM 2500 Laramie Cummins
    '15 Pure White VW Touareg TDI
    ///'95 Avus M3 S54B32 Race car -- 2022 ProAutoSports PS1 Champion
    ///'72 Chamonix 2002 (Restoration project)

  7. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPWRCPE View Post
    Unplug your MAF sensor and try to start the car for shits and giggles. It will do exactly what you're describing with a faulty MAF.
    Yeah that doesn’t change anything, still the same thing, brand new Bosch MAF

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ps, the person that figures this out will be PayPal’d $100, no joke.
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  8. #333
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    What code(s) are you currently getting? Are you reading them via INPA or the TTFS tool?
    S54 swap DME flashing - $100
    S54 swap CAN interface board (for proper A/C & check engine light) - $275
    e36 SAP sim/secondary air pump simulator:
    $75 - standard or $170 - plug & play
    e36 post-cat O2 sims: $115 shipped, plug & play

  9. #334
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    What about the vacuum line from the air rail to your fuel pressure regulator? Is it plugged with gunk or not connected?

    Also if it was me and since you have literally tried everyrhing, I would pull all the plugs and dry them off if wet with fuel, add 10ml of oil to each cylinder and then try starting.


    Last edited by mitch500; 01-23-2018 at 06:53 PM.
    ()()===[][]===()()


  10. #335
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    Same codes on the TTFS software, haven’t tried the INPA stuff yet, vacuum lines are 100% new, from rail to FPR using real BMW vacuum line.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Plugs look like this when pulled
    FE56CA8C-CC64-421E-83E0-1722AD4FD9C8.jpg
    I was also thinking the injectors might be putting out the spark
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 Shifty View Post
    Same codes on the TTFS software, haven’t tried the INPA stuff yet, vacuum lines are 100% new, from rail to FPR using real BMW vacuum line.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Plugs look like this when pulled
    FE56CA8C-CC64-421E-83E0-1722AD4FD9C8.jpg
    I was also thinking the injectors might be putting out the spark
    I'd clean the plugs up they look kinda gunked up
    ()()===[][]===()()


  12. #337
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    S54/E36,18 Sierra Denali
    So

    You have
    -air
    -fuel
    -spark
    -vac line to fpr
    -new cps
    -EWS deleted
    -HFM no difference
    -relays replaced
    -harness checked
    -timing done 4 times
    -vac lines all proper
    -grounds all good
    -start signal wire from starter good

    Have to cleaned your ICV?
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 01-23-2018 at 08:31 PM.

  13. #338
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    Yea might as well check the icv as Pitt mentioned.

    Similar storey but no BMW, my jeeps icv was dirty as hell and wouldn't start or even try to fire over. Cleaned it up and fired right up.
    ()()===[][]===()()


  14. #339
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    K I’ll do the ICV tomorrow first thing, I actually also bought a spare used ICV from eBay yesterday as well but won’t be here till next week, no new codes showing, I haven’t used the INPA yet, not sure what to check with it
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  15. #340
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    Does the ICV have any bearing on throttle body movement? Because why are my TB’s able to move before and after cranking with the pedal but remain close under cranking?
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  16. #341
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    I'm thinking it's got to be something electrical/DME/EWS related. My swap is having the exact same issues (still haven't figured the damn problem out), but the weird thing is that I started up and drove the donor car before I tore it apart and swapped everything into the car. So things like fuel pump, injectors, coils, etc, I know were all working. It threw a bunch of codes, most likely from the car sitting so long without a battery, but it was working well enough that I could start and drive it, so that makes the problem even more frustrating.

  17. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by youinreverse View Post
    I'm thinking it's got to be something electrical/DME/EWS related. My swap is having the exact same issues (still haven't figured the damn problem out), but the weird thing is that I started up and drove the donor car before I tore it apart and swapped everything into the car. So things like fuel pump, injectors, coils, etc, I know were all working. It threw a bunch of codes, most likely from the car sitting so long without a battery, but it was working well enough that I could start and drive it, so that makes the problem even more frustrating.
    are you also using an Andrews swap harness? i see you are in SLC, im in Pleasant Grove in Utah county, i work in SLC, fact im here tonight.

    im starting to think there is an issue with the swap harness.. i just get this feeling that something is a miss with it. but im going to eliminate all that i can before i pull it out and send it back to him for testing,

    I also find it odd i have only the codes showing that i posted.
    Last edited by TH3 Shifty; 01-24-2018 at 02:07 AM.
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  18. #343
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    S54 Sedan/08 535xi Wagon
    I'm just north of SLC in Bountiful. I'm not using Andrew's harness. My swap is going into an E46 sedan, so there's just a few wires on my existing harness that needed to be added/changed/removed.

  19. #344
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    ok so, today:

    removed ICV, appeared a little stuck, cleaned it really well with brake cleaner until it could move very freely. installed, started car, no change.
    Removed the top air rail connector, no change

    checked the 5 grounds with a probe light, all grounds are solid

    Checked the coil plugs, there are 3 wires for each coil plug, black, brown, red... red is the positive, i have constant power to them.

    checked the green relay plug, constant power is noted at terminal 6
    Checked the green relay plug ground at terminal 4... good ground noted

    Gpeterson, i did not find a green wire at the place you told me to check for.

    Checked E-box fuses(little black box of 5 fuses on the engine harness) all fuses are fine

    So im down to these options unless you guys have other theories:

    #1. Fuel injectors - bad or non-responsive for some reason....
    #2. Possible that I crossed up the intake and exhaust cam on install... (not sure this is even possible but i have to hypothesize it)
    #3. There is something wrong in the swap harness (Andrews) wiring.

    IMG_3671.jpg
    this is the engine pic of when i did the cam install, it appears to be lined up correctly and the intake and exhaust cams are in the right places.
    Last edited by TH3 Shifty; 01-24-2018 at 08:12 PM.
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  20. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 Shifty View Post
    Does the ICV have any bearing on throttle body movement? Because why are my TB’s able to move before and after cranking with the pedal but remain close under cranking?
    When the engine is actually running, the ICV handles the "low throttle" stuff before the throttle bodies start being used. That may apply to the starting behavior too.

    I have to see if there's an easy way to read the RAM of the DME. There's a couple points in the fuel injection routine that could be tripping up the DME before the EWS check takes place, but guessing blindly won't really help.

  21. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    When the engine is actually running, the ICV handles the "low throttle" stuff before the throttle bodies start being used. That may apply to the starting behavior too.

    I have to see if there's an easy way to read the RAM of the DME. There's a couple points in the fuel injection routine that could be tripping up the DME before the EWS check takes place, but guessing blindly won't really help.
    well I have a BIN file I can send anyone that wants to take a look at it
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  22. #347
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    Have you done a compression check? You said you've messed with the cams, so if cam timing is off enough to keep it from running, a compression test should show screwy numbers.

  23. #348
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    I'm curious to see results of a compression test on your engine too. I just did one on my engine and the numbers were way lower than I was expecting. I had 80 PSI on all cylinders. I rebuilt my engine with new connecting rod bearings, cylinders bored one size over, and new Mahle Powerpak rings and pistons, Oversized Cometic head gasket (head and block were both decked because of a blown head gasket). New vanos components from Beisan updated cam bolts, etc.

    I was expecting compression numbers a little lower than normal because the piston rings haven't been broken in, but 80 PSI just isn't right. I'm wondering if compression is too low to run. We put about a tablespoon of oil in each cylinder and compression numbers rose to 110 PSI. We then attempted to start it and it started and ran for about a second longer than normal before dying. I tried two more times and it started up again and died. Before it would only fire once and then crank after that. After the third try it would only crank.

  24. #349
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    so today:

    Got a new FPR, installed. no change

    Sent my DME out to friend to try and see if my DME works with his swap, since his swap was finished a year ago, then we can rule out DME.

    Also, just brain storming here, so the EWS in the E36, i mentioned before its still in the car, when i tried to remove it and start the car, it did nothing, no cranking or anything. So i was thinking about the E36 EWS, why is it still active? the S52 DME is out, is the E36 EWS system trying to hold up my car since its DME is not there and functioning? Did the E36 DME need to be deactivated before all this?

    On a side note... and a re-cap... my pistons and plugs are still damp. ive pulled all the plugs to take a look at each, and each one looks like the pic above. So we know fuel is getting into the cylinders,
    we know the fuel pump is working and supplying adequate pressure because i rented a FPR tester and i had 75psi+ under cranking.
    back in May '17 i had sent out the Fuel injectors to be refurbished. Meaning they changed the filters and such in them, but did not flow test or ultra-sonic clean them. I was reading a few posts on m3forum where people did this, only to have injectors stuck open and dumping fuel.

    This leads me to think my problem might just be the same issue. I have since ordered new fuel injectors from ECStuning on friday. Should be here next week. In the meantime, going to pull the valve cover, and check timing... again... and confirm it, and to make sure i have the cams in correct, meaning exh in exh and int in int. just incase i screwed that up.

    I received a new BIN file from the tuner again today, uploaded.. no change. I pulled codes again, same codes as before... EWS-DME code 66 but people say they have that and it means nothing... ok then..

    Once i do that.. going to check a few pin outs on the swap harness... because literally thats all thats left that it can be. Im using stock pistons with a stock head gasket. NO overbore was need, just a deglazing of the cylinder walls. New piston rings, clocked appropriately per BMW specs.
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  25. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 Shifty View Post
    Also, just brain storming here, so the EWS in the E36, i mentioned before its still in the car, when i tried to remove it and start the car, it did nothing, no cranking or anything. So i was thinking about the E36 EWS, why is it still active? the S52 DME is out, is the E36 EWS system trying to hold up my car since its DME is not there and functioning? Did the E36 DME need to be deactivated before all this?
    EWS also prevents the starter motor from cranking, this part has nothing to do with the DME. Unplugging the EWS will prevent cranking unless you bridge the two fat wires on the EWS connector. I'd leave the EWS in place, no harm if the module, keys, and ring antenna are all functioning properly.
    S54 swap DME flashing - $100
    S54 swap CAN interface board (for proper A/C & check engine light) - $275
    e36 SAP sim/secondary air pump simulator:
    $75 - standard or $170 - plug & play
    e36 post-cat O2 sims: $115 shipped, plug & play

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