Discussion thread for Z3/M cars on BAT and other for sale/auction sites

[IndianaRoadster]

I remember back when some of the muscle cars from the late 60's started going up like what were seeing here and people were saying the things I'm hearing from you guys. But look what happened over the last few years with those cars. A guy that paid a few thousand over what the "fair" price was at the time is smiling big time now!

[TexaZ3]

I remember back when some of the muscle cars from the late 60's started going up like what were seeing here and people were saying the things I'm hearing from you guys. But look what happened over the last few years with those cars. A guy that paid a few thousand over what the "fair" price was at the time is smiling big time now!

Yup. Gas-powered, N/A, RWD, manual, analog-feeling cars are going out of production real fast, and soon there will be no decent used ones left (that most people could afford). The market for these type cars is only going up in the next 20 years - trust me on this one. If you had any intention to pick one up at some point "soon" that some point is like, NOW. I've been doing just that for the past 5 years and already tripled my investment

[BUCK57]

Yup. Gas-powered, N/A, RWD, manual, analog-feeling cars are going out of production real fast, and soon there will be no decent used ones left (that most people could afford). The market for these type cars is only going up in the next 20 years - trust me on this one. If you had any intention to pick one up at some point "soon" that some point is like, NOW. I've been doing just that for the past 5 years and already tripled my investment

My question regarding the mussel era cars is what happens to the mussel car values when all the old guys die off. The same holds true for our Z3's. The younger generations value cars from their younger years. After all, the affordable cars were not limited production cars, thousands upon thousands of them were manufactured. The limited production, rare cars of yesteryear are and I believe will remain very valuable for generations to come. A 1969 mussel car will be worth what someone is willing to pay for it 25 years from now. A 1969 Ferrari 365 will be worth what the seller is willing to accept. A 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO, the seller will ask the buyer to deposit the asking price in an escrow account before you test drive it. NO!!! The price is nonnegotiable! You scratch it, you bought it!

My Father always wanted a Bentley. He had the means to buy anything he wanted. His last car was a Jeep Cherokee. I asked him why that and not the Bentley he always admired? Value he said and that new Jeep is really nice with the hemi!!! He had a heavy right foot.

Choose wisely!

[cyberman]

My question regarding the mussel era cars is what happens to the mussel car values when all the old guys die off. The same holds true for our Z3's. The younger generations value cars from their younger years.

Another possible issue with the younger generation is the lack of interest in all things mechanical. My son, for example, is a rising, 34-year-old, middle-class executive who never touched a wrench and doesn't want to. The younger generation that can A) Afford it and B) Work on it and C) Want it, are a limited group and perhaps a shrinking group.

There will always be collectors with money and a desire to acquire collections. And perhaps they'll power continued rising prices. Collectors can be picky too, they generally want very clean, low-mileage examples. But we also could be in a sort of overall market bubble. I watch The Road Show and lately it's been doing 2007 shows with the prices then and updated for 2021. It's pretty ugly. 2007 was a boom/peak year and most things decreased in value since then, or stayed the same which is effectively a decrease considering inflation. Another factor, which speaks to the statement of valuing things from your own younger years is cultural shifts. With environmental concerns, especially in the younger generations (of course since they have to live with it): I'd guess it will become less and less cool to own a combustion-engine vehicle. That's why I was only half-kidding when I suggested on the Dunkelator thread to consider and EV conversion.

I think eventually, when EV conversion becomes more economically feasible there will be a big demand for electric Z3s. It combines cultural shifts with a rare body and drop-top fun. It's a bold prediction, and only time will tell. But one of my reasons is that we have a growing maintenance issue, namely the supply of components such as computers and sensors. A DISA valve for my M44 now pushes $900, and I don't know if one can even get a new computer for it? Likewise, other parts are drying up and getting harder and costlier to acquire. A new differential anyone? Yes, rebuilding is always a possibility. But rebuilding is a stop-gap as every year there is a fallout rate, where parts are rendered unusable for rebuilding. The DISA rebuilder in Bulgaria reports that about 10% of his cores are unusable due to failure of the internal solenoid and he cannot get anyone to make it.

[BimmerBreaker]

Another interesting aspect of this discussion is with the move to self-driving cars, will people-driven cars become relics of the past? Not likely to happen in the next 10 years sure. But my lifetime, being 30 years old... could mean 50 years from now. Look at where regulations were 50 years ago, that would have been what, 71? Around the time of the gas crisis iirc? Safety standards and emissions things were relatively new ideas then, now they are heavily mandated into every car. We have semi-autonomous cars on the road now and self-driving cars have logged hundreds of thousands of miles by now (if not more, probably much more). And if these cars do become outdated, or even not legal to drive on the road... how does that affect their value? Is the government going to mandate some kind of cash for clunkers program for people-driven cars someday? What about cars that are special to us...? Will their value go up as they are collectibles? Surely, with so many cars on the road, and no real utility at that point except to sit in a museum, only those valuable today would have any value in the future.

Im glad I own my cars to enjoy and not as investments. Does make me wonder why I own that white M coupe though lol

[IndianaRoadster]

Kids that were in high school from 96' to 02' and couldn't afford a new z3 are the ones I'm talking about. Kid graduates 2000 at 18 years old, 40 years later he's now an empty nester. Wants that car he couldn't afford in high school. He's 58 now and starts looking for that z3, the year would be 2040. That's 19 years from now so there's lots of time for the z3's prices to go up. By that time you might be right about muscle cars.

[ProductUser]

What about the viability of parts to maintain the Z, say, in the next 10 or 20 years? The aftermarket world, or specialized machinists, provide and\or create parts for classic cars.

BimmerBreaker may have the right idea to hoard Z OE parts for his generation

If you can't repair the Z, with its host of electronics and oddities, does that diminish its value at some point? Or make those odd garage queens that much more valuable? I don't know.

[s8ilver]

I graduated (high school) in 2000, and suspect I'll have moved past the Z3 by 2040, but who knows? I could see hanging onto the M long term as I hardly put any miles on it and enjoy tinkering with it at least as much as I do driving it, but I've also always wanted a Porsche and I imagine the 991/992 depreciation curves will follow previous 996/997 trends. My fear long-term is parts availability and the brittleness of the plastics and eventual demise of the electronics. I've previously stated that I would love to see a company like a Singer redo one of these with ultra high quality materials, and I hope something like that happens as I'll need something to burn money on someday. What's the average cost of a kid these days? I didn't go down that road, and sounds like a car might be a lot cheaper. Or I could just buy a Tesla; they accept Bitcoin now.

[BimmerBreaker]

I graduated (high school) in 2000, and suspect I'll have moved past the Z3 by 2040, but who knows?

Traitor!!

[ProductUser]

I graduated (high school) in 2000, and suspect I'll have moved past the Z3 by 2040, but who knows? I could see hanging onto the M long term as I hardly put any miles on it and enjoy tinkering with it at least as much as I do driving it, but I've also always wanted a Porsche and I imagine the 991/992 depreciation curves will follow previous 996/997 trends. My fear long-term is parts availability and the brittleness of the plastics and eventual demise of the electronics. I've previously stated that I would love to see a company like a Singer redo one of these with ultra high quality materials, and I hope something like that happens as I'll need something to burn money on someday. What's the average cost of a kid these days? I didn't go down that road, and sounds like a car might be a lot cheaper. Or I could just buy a Tesla; they accept Bitcoin now.

I graduated high school a little earlier that you, which means I'm in that demographic with fewer days ahead of me than behind me. I've been looking for a 993 for a while, but prices are out of price point for now. When I eventually get the 993, the Z will have to go; I don't have the garage space for three cars.

[BUCK57]

I believe we all (sorry coupe people) have one thing in common and that's the top down! We may move on from our current toys or not (I'm on my 9th roadster). That being said, a convertible Edsel is way cool. As a teenager I chopped the top off my VW baja bug. It was a hack job by a know nothing kid and I liked it, my 1st convertible. My father shook his head. I'll have my motorcycle and convertible til the day they are taken away from me.

Side story: last summer I was driving around Lake Tahoe seeing a beautiful red convertible Edsel pulled off the side of the road with it's hood up. There were a couple other cars stopped with them. A while later as I was heading back the way I came, the now running Edsel passed by with smiling people and the top down on a beauty of a summer day. All is good

[Watch Carefully]

I believe we all (sorry coupe people) have one thing in common and that's the top down! ...

Side story: last summer I was driving around Lake Tahoe seeing a beautiful red convertible Edsel pulled off the side of the road with it's hood up. There were a couple other cars stopped with them. A while later as I was heading back the way I came, the now running Edsel passed by with smiling people and the top down on a beauty of a summer day. All is good

I hear ya. I've no plans to be rid of the Z3, but feel one of these could be in my future (retired in the woods of NE PA).

[sydjai]

Did you guys see this one finished yesterday?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...m-roadster-44/

$24k!! And it has two popped welds!! So you have figure in at least $3k for a Forbes kit installed, another few k for a cooling system and suspension bits refresh (unless you do it yourself, still going to be >$1500 in parts), and the $1200 buyer's premium, and you're at $30k!

There are a few others in similar shape on the Buyer's Guide, for $15-18k, should buy them and flip them on BAT.

[Trademark1]

I saw that. And I would say the wheels and undercarriage rust were a bit lower than average condition for mileage/age and rear window stitching looked shot and paint has average blemishes. And a ‘99 so presumably single-stage airbags, single layer top insulation, etc. glovebox and seats perhaps a bit above average. Not much in way of extras (wind deflector, tonneau cover, etc.). One of more common color combos (which I also have ). Can’t tell if values really creeping up or BAT just that bananas. . . .

[Dakar Ole]

$24k!! And it has two popped welds!! So you have figure in at least $3k for a Forbes kit installed, another few k for a cooling system and suspension bits refresh (unless you do it yourself, still going to be >$1500 in parts), and the $1200 buyer's premium, and you're at $30k!

Plus a pitted windshield and possible tranny problems!

[kolosy]

Did you guys see this one finished yesterday?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...m-roadster-44/

$24k!! And it has two popped welds!! So you have figure in at least $3k for a Forbes kit installed, another few k for a cooling system and suspension bits refresh (unless you do it yourself, still going to be >$1500 in parts), and the $1200 buyer's premium, and you're at $30k!

There are a few others in similar shape on the Buyer's Guide, for $15-18k, should buy them and flip them on BAT.

Putting mine up on cars and bids, let's see how that goes. Same mileage but an S54, with all maintenance done and no popped welds .

[cpallenjr]

I have been monitoring Cars and Bids, Hemmings, and BAT for months and I believe cars are selling for markedly more money on BAT. So my unscientific snapshot advice is buy off Auto Trader or Cars and Bids, sell off BAT.

[Trademark1]

There is some odd activity on the site. See attached. This user has simultaneous bids on two different 2000 Ms - made within moments of one another. Does he want two? He also comments on a number of bimmers, confidently stating target prices for their inevitable value ascendency. Not sure why you talk up a car you hope to win at auction. Maybe I just don’t understand how to get into other bidders heads . . . FE368F82-592B-4316-9CC5-4BAF829E6019.jpg

[mpire]

It went for $20k! That’s nuts

That's because it had a hard top. Without the hard top and a tan interior its worth about 6k.

[IndianaRoadster]

That's because it had a hard top. Without the hard top and a tan interior its worth about 6k.

Who among us if we had a z that we were going to sell right now would say, I see these cars are going for $20,000 but that's crazy so I'm going to only ask $6,000 dollars? Assuming your not in a rush to sell I think it would be crazy not to ask what others are starting to get for these cars. That's how free market capitalism works. Many times over the years being a general contractor I've sold for more than I personally thought it was worth, but I certainly wasn't going to turn down a good profit during a hot market!

[mpire]

That's how free market capitalism works.

Mother Russia would disagree.

Many times over the years being a general contractor I've sold for more than I personally thought it was worth, but I certainly wasn't going to turn down a good profit during a hot market!

You clearly do not comprehend how hard it is to find a matching hard top, and the even bigger challenge of finding a hard top mounting kit. Some guy was making knock offs in his garage they were so rare. I mean, seriously, a good hard top mounting kit adds a solid $10,000 to the value of any Z3.

If you can get a version with a permanent top, like maybe in a coupe form, it increases the value even more!

[IndianaRoadster]

I guess I have never understood concerning convertibles that are for nice weekends and pleasant evenings why you would want to put a hard top on it. Just buy a Coupe.

[pine1000]

I guess I have never understood concerning convertibles that are for nice weekends and pleasant evenings why you would want to put a hard top on it. Just buy a Coupe.

If you don't have space for 2 sports cars, it's a good compromise. The hardtop reduces wind noise dramatically vs the closed soft-top, protects the soft-top/window and it looks very cool. The hardtop somehow looks better in person than in most photos. That's true for boxsters with hardtops too. The first time I saw one in person I took me a little while to figure out it was a boxster.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess I have never understood concerning convertibles that are for nice weekends and pleasant evenings why you would want to put a hard top on it. Just buy a Coupe.

If you don't have space for 2 sports cars, it's a good compromise. The hardtop reduces wind noise dramatically vs the closed soft-top, protects the soft-top/window and it looks very cool. The hardtop somehow looks better in person than in most photos. That's true for boxsters with hardtops too. The first time I saw one in person I took me a little while to figure out it was a boxster.

[mpire]

I guess I have never understood concerning convertibles that are for nice weekends and pleasant evenings why you would want to put a hard top on it.

Because its almost unobtanium. That's why. Why do you drive one of the most revolutionarily beautiful cars? Its dramatically underpowered by todays oversized luxo radioactive gopher barge standard that BMW is turning out these days.

These pointless side grills that adorn every you can buy these days was returned from a 40 year hiatus by the lowly Z3.

That there is some special sauce.

Just buy a Coupe.

You can't tell me what to do. You're not the boss of me! I don't have to buy a coupe if I don't want one.

You clearly do not comprehend the important the last BMW designed pre-hooeydookie truly is in this world.

I'll have to learn you something good then.

Maybe I'll condemn you to drive my old fard stranger for a week, see how you like hand crank windows.

[mpire]

If you don't have space for 2 sports cars, it's a good compromise.

Compromise? What the hell are you talking about.

OF COURSE YOU HAVE ROOM FOR MULTIPLE Z3s!

You know why? Because they are small cars. They take up the space of one normal pickem up truck.

Lets look at this rationally to dispel your heresy.

The 2021 (Dodge?) RAM Crew Cab is 261 inches long, 82 inches wide, and 78 inches tall.

The Z3 is 158 inches long, 66 inches wide, and 48 inches tall.

That means you only need another 100 more inches to fit a SECOND Z in the same space. That's a pittance. You can find a corner to stash another one no problem.

I hear you, you don't want to put something so beautiful outside in the cold. No worries, you can always get a small stacker lift and stick two Zs in the same parking spot. You can stick two Zs stacked in 100 inches. That's only 8 feet plus a bit, and most garages have ceilings tall enough. You just gotta shop around for a deal.

Personally, I just rent an additional garage down the street while I'm in transition. You can easily get two Zs and lots of other stuff like wheels and engines into a 10x30 with room to walk around them and open the back to check batteries, etc.

Plus there are lots of savings when you think about the economies of scale. You can share fluids and stock only one kind of maintenance parts. Not to mention its smart investing in your future by purchasing multiple Zs.

No more of this nonsense about how you can only own ONE Z!

This isn't Highlander.