Crank Sensor Dying Every Year.

[MisterM52]

Correct, there is too much misinformation floating in the internet, and in addition that car in NZ is a EURO version, originally exported to Japan and then sold as used car from Japan to NZ. 10/95 328i Coupe with M52 engine, RHD, based on the VIN the CPS should be Pulse generator, crankshaft up to 09/1998 12141703277 , that is the one with the wire attached and plug in front of the engine.
Oxygen sensor SIEMENS/L=990MM 2 up to 09/1995 11781427884

CPS Cross numbers according to this list http://infopart.org/hella-6pu009110001-part
BMW 12141703277
BMW 1703277
DELPHI DIESEL SS10893
HELLA 009110001
METZGER 0902004
VDO 5WK9541
VDO 5WK96041
VDO S103557001D
VDO S103557002
VDO S103557002B
VDO S103557002Z
VEMO V20720402

That is correct, the plug attached in front of the engine, and according to my reading, that still should be the same value, much like the M50 US, (Euro never got the full OBD II cars in 1995. Now thing being this is not in the 500 range nor in the 1200 range. This is coming short around 800 range, the failed sensor was at..750 range.. So something is not right here.

Now B320i Brings a interesting point, now what do we know about the crank sensors being different for Siemens ECU and Bosh ECU? I was pretty sure that was not an issue.

Can you dig anything up on this Bosh/Siemens issue or if it is a issue at all..?

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on a side note, are these supposed to drop resistance with heat I put it next to a small space heater and the resistance keeps dropping 50 ohm or so within 10 - 20 seconds.. wow..

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The Plot Thickens, Doing some Google and found this for a 2000 528i

- A good sensor will read 500-600 ohms at rest and at room temperature

- If a sensor is heated (with a heatgun or blow drier) the impedance will rise above 600 ohms and go up into the 700-800 ohm range. This is normal and should be expected.

- A bad sensor or faulty sensor will read mega ohms which is an indicator that the circuit it open and the sensor is no good.

- http://forums.mightycarmods.com/show...BMW-528i/page4

[shogun]

BMW shop manual says to the shown data: pulse sender coil resistance at 20 degree C.
So measure it at 20 degree C, maybe then it is in the range.

[MisterM52]

My room temperature is 20 degree C. :/

If I increase the temp, the resistance is suppose to rise, on these the resistance is falling!

Somebody needs to test these.

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I have got this email from him

With regards to the Crank sensor,
I just phoned a very respectable Auto electrician who is also a BMW specialist & he said they never ever test crank or cam sensors with an OHM meter because you can get very misleading results & he commented they always log a code if they are faulty epically if it is enough to effect the way the car is running ( you said your car had logged no code which he said straight away points to something else which is exactly what I have suggested in previous emails ), they always use an oscilloscope to test them with & always in the car.
You say the BMW Spec is 540 OHM Corrected in bently from 1280OHM is that according to Bentley or BMW these figures ?
I have contacted one of my colleges at BMW & he said he will see what he can find but also said they would not test with an OHM meter

I just tested the sensor we have here & it is 797 & he said, you test them while they are still in the car & can give a very different reading to testing with an OHM meter on the bench & normally when faulty will show either open circuit or massive resistance like 8000 OHM

I would say the fact that you have a brand new genuine one reading 809 OHM & the 12 month old VDO reading 813 ( 0.5 of a percent difference) , & I have one here reading approx the same that , that is actually what they are supposed to read , & that they should be tested in the car , not on the bench . He said they will read very different depending if the car is warm or cold as well & will read different in the car depending on how close the sensor is to the pickup .

Yet again , the fact that your car has logged no codes for the sensor , ye the car is not running well certainly points to the problem being elsewhere & from experience, I have seen many a time the internet leads some up up the garden path when it comes to diagnosis

I better go, 6:17 & things to do
Let me know your thoughts

Regards
xxxxxx

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Looking at this post..


http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ront-location)




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thats the
HELLA 009110541 Crankshaft Position Sensor

https://www.amazon.com/HELLA-0091105...art/B000VU7JFI

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Now basically what I make of it would be

A good sensor will read 500-600 ohms at rest and at room temperature, If a sensor is heated (with a heatgun or blow drier) the impedance will rise above 600 ohms and go up into the 700-800 ohm range. This is normal and should be expected. A bad sensor or faulty sensor will read mega ohms which is an indicator that the circuit it open and the sensor is no good.

Now thing is all the information I have found mostly seems to be based on Part # 12141726066 which is for OBD 1 M50 Engines.

While we are using Part # 12141703277 which is for the M52 OBD 2 (Semi OBD 2 in EU & NZ).

^ the two sensors are NOT interchangeable.

This along with the fact that the VDO and BMW Genuine reads around 800 OHM and so does the one at the sellers end. I have asked a few people to post their values but I am not sure anymore.

[shogun]

The difference is: 12141703277 is a hall sensor https://www.spectromatic.net/product...141703277.html
while the 12141726066 is a inductive sensor which has 550 ohm https://www.spectromatic.net/product...141726066.html
Hall sensors are tested differently, not with an ohmmeter but with a voltmeter

Inductive and Hall Effect RPM Sensors Explained https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/induc...kiril-mucevski

[shogun]

So did you meanwhile clarify this matter? Inductive or Hall Effect sensor on your car?

[MisterM52]

Yes, one on my car was a Hall Effect Sensor. Not Inductive as mentioned earlier in my last post.

And I can also confirm indeed

Part #12141726066 is a Inductive Sensor which is for OBD 1 M50 Engines.

While my Part #12141703277 which is an Hall Effect Sensor for the M52 OBD 2 (Semi OBD 2 in EU & NZ).

And the two sensors above are NOT interchangeable.


Also,

I had someone test one out of a Late 90's M52B28 which had BMW Part # 1732566 or 708277, Using an Oscilloscope, Good crank sensor, unplugged while still in the car, the readings were
13.12 Megaohm [MΩ] or 13120000 Ohm [Ω] - Using Oscilloscope.

[1215]

Can I somewhat hijack this thread and ask you guys a few questions.... I need to do a cam sensor on a US spec M52b28. INPA says production was in 36th week of 1996. I understand Mr. Maori is whining about his crank sensor woes, not cam... I'm kind of wondering about the "while I'm in there" stuff related to a cam position sensor --such as do the cam and crank sensors need to be replaced together? If a cam sensor goes should I assume crank sensor is not far behind? Anything else (sensor or electrical related) I should be doing to a 300k mile car "while I'm in there" and/or just for good measure?

Also related to Mr. M's issues... prices on these darn things range from $30 up to $100. What are the good brand parts to get? For $30 I'm not inclined to bother with measuring the resistance... but for $100 I'd absolutely test and see whats going on. Same with the crank sensor (which is fine or no error codes, but its original as far as I can tell)...

As an aside, and to somewhat contribute to this thread... Mr. M... I've told you a couple times I'd be happy to forward stuff on to you if it'll help on shipping or taxes costs. (I'd do it for anyone else too) I have UPS, FedEx & DHL accounts and I'm capable of bringing something to USPS as well. I won't be a deadbeat about it... but if I end up being a deadbeat just publicly flame, shame & embarrass me.

EDIT: If I get replies, thanks... Sorry to hijack the thread.

[shogun]

Well, I would change these items only after getting some trouble. Just as an example, the original BMW crankshaft position sensors and cylinder identification sensors (Donuts) on my 11/1988 E32 750 are still working in perfect condition, should I change them? No reason. There is no mechanical wear on them, just the heat of the engine bay.

But if you want to change such items, go for a good brand or original BMW. Just to mention a few: Hella, Bosch, Siemens VDO
"If a cam sensor goes should I assume crank sensor is not far behind? ">>>>no reason for that.

"I've told you a couple times I'd be happy to forward stuff on to you if it'll help on shipping or taxes costs. (I'd do it for anyone else too)">>> thanks for that offer. I have some shops like FCP EURO which have very reasonable shipping cost now to Japan and other countries. The shopping cart will automatically compute the shipping charge for the order.
There are other online shops which only ship within the U.S. , in such cases some of the members on the forum buy for me and then ship by cheapest USPS to my address.

[MisterM52]

Can I somewhat hijack this thread and ask you guys a few questions.... I need to do a cam sensor on a US spec M52b28. INPA says production was in 36th week of 1996. I understand Mr. Maori is whining about his crank sensor woes, not cam... I'm kind of wondering about the "while I'm in there" stuff related to a cam position sensor --such as do the cam and crank sensors need to be replaced together? If a cam sensor goes should I assume crank sensor is not far behind? Anything else (sensor or electrical related) I should be doing to a 300k mile car "while I'm in there" and/or just for good measure?

Also related to Mr. M's issues... prices on these darn things range from $30 up to $100. What are the good brand parts to get? For $30 I'm not inclined to bother with measuring the resistance... but for $100 I'd absolutely test and see whats going on. Same with the crank sensor (which is fine or no error codes, but its original as far as I can tell)...

As an aside, and to somewhat contribute to this thread... Mr. M... I've told you a couple times I'd be happy to forward stuff on to you if it'll help on shipping or taxes costs. (I'd do it for anyone else too) I have UPS, FedEx & DHL accounts and I'm capable of bringing something to USPS as well. I won't be a deadbeat about it... but if I end up being a deadbeat just publicly flame, shame & embarrass me.

EDIT: If I get replies, thanks... Sorry to hijack the thread.

No Maoris or Kiwis here man. not one of them.

I always say replace them both if one has gone bad, the other usually follows.

Well, Get OEM VDO or Genuine OE BMW. I got Topran/Hans Pieres Aftermarket Sensors back in 2014, they failed a year later, the VDO Sensor worth $150 is working well. Genuine BMW Costs around $280 here.

Cam Sensor I think has a resistence of around 15 - 16 OHM. Use a multi meter or just buy a oscilloscope, old ones cost around 10 - 20 bucks online.


I emailed you didn't I? it takes a week to get a look at it and then hes got some robotic iphone app that listens and types things for him. I hate Iphones. Yea, I will keep that in mind, recently had someone forward me some zippo lighters! But yea in the future in regards to sensors and all that. Will def, keep in mind. Thanks for offering, I might just take you up on that one of these days

[1215]

I'm only getting an INPA #65 code for camshaft position sensor. I don't have an issue replacing just the cam position sensor (and not doing crank sensor). What do I need to know about the recall and updated wire situation? I see a Siemens/VDO for about $70. Is that going to be my best bet for this thing? Are there any other "while you are in there" things I'll regret not doing? I'm going to pull the cam position sensor this evening. If the ohms check out I guess I'll start a new thread because I'll have no idea why i'm getting a cam sensor code with a good sensor. Thanks.

[shogun]

MisterM52: any news on the CPS you are using now?
hall effect sensor testing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM_nVQy3-kA
Understanding Hall Effect Sensors http://www.wellsve.com/sft503/Counterpoint3_1.pdf
Inductive and Hall Effect RPM Sensors Explained https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/induc...kiril-mucevski

Testing Electrical Systems with a Digital Multimeter, source FLUKE
Hall-Effect Position Sensors
Hall-Effect position sensors have replaced ignition points in many distributors and are used to directly detect crank and/or cam position on distributorless ignition systems (DIS), telling the computer when to fire the coils. Hall-Effect sensors produce a voltage proportional to the strength of a magnetic field passing through them, which can come from a permanent magnet or an electric current. Since magnetic field strength is proportional to an electric current, Hall-Effect sensors can measure current. They convert the magnetic field into millivolts that can be read by a DMM.
Checking Hall-Effect Sensors Check for reference voltage from battery at connector. Hall sensors require power where magnetic sensors do not. To test sensor: connect +12V from battery to power terminal, set DMM to measure volts and connect it between signal output and ground. Insert feeler blade between sensor and magnet while watching for the bar graph to move. Signal should vary from 12V to 0V.
http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/aut...e/beatbook.pdf

[shogun]

Follow - up: any news here?

[spyderg0d]

Not sure if i posted on this thread yet. As it comes to crank sensors, there are actually several different versions of them. Ive had a autocraft brand front obd1 crank sensor for 2 years now. It read 780 ohms and very little change based on temps and the car runs fine. I have tested it in diagnotics at times and found it to not be the issue. What i seen from the inner workings, its not a true magnetic sensor as the original oem. Theres a chip, light, and circutry within and a ceramic non magmetic receptor at the end. The sensor makes the appropriate signal when the engine and running, but when still has a very different reading. Even after testing exactly the same brand part, the readinga are identical. Seemingly, there are cheaper, technologically different replacement parts that have different spec, but still oprational. Basically i think one would be able to tell by checking for magnet strength at the end.

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Oh. Ive seen ive trolled this thread many times already

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Indeed, the cheaper sensors i describe do have a very short life span. The circuit board within the housing can only withstand so many heat cycles before they start over or under reacting.

[MRUguy]

Hello guys i have been wandering from other bmw forums to this one for a long long time now not being able to find answers to my problems. I have an M50B20TU powered E34. Bought in without crankshaft sensor. Bought one and the car started right away. Drived good but felt like hitting some limiter at 4K RPM, then 3500 rpm, 2500 rpm, kept going down and now the car only starts and idle roughly. Any amount of pressure on the gas pedal leads to misfiring, bogging and backfire through the intake. Changed 3 crankshaft sensors with same results. Changed the TPS, camshaft sensor.
I've noticed that when you unplug 3 of the 6 ignition coils, no change occurs. It keeps the same rough idling. But if you unbolt the said ignition coils, plug them back and slowly pull them out while engine is running, you can hear the spark. What could be the culprit? Anyone help please!