E39 V8 Big Power SC / Turbo DeadPool Tracker

[whiteghost1]

If this doesn't provacate for the dead pool nothing will:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bmw-twin-...sAAOSw1NFaD0ZN

Actually the price isn't that bad.....if the turbos are good and the manifolds actually clear the e39 chassis. If I had more of a disposable income it'd be almost be worth the risk.

[JimLev]

Hope the turbo guts look better than the outsides.
I think I had 95% of my mods done before this dead pool thing started.
Might be dreaming up something new in the coming months.

[geargrinder]

If manifolds actually clear the e39 chassis.

LOL. Hey go for it man. Deadpool hasn't had a new entry in a long time!

Also, that setup looks like it was dredged off the bottom of a lake. but why let that stop ya!

[itsbrokeagain]

Wow those turbos look almost like OEM....I wonder what had an M60 turbo back in the day..

[auaq]

Hope the turbo guts look better than the outsides.
I think I had 95% of my mods done before this dead pool thing started.
Might be dreaming up something new in the coming months.

LOL. Hey go for it man. Deadpool hasn't had a new entry in a long time!

Also, that setup looks like it was dredged off the bottom of a lake. but why let that stop ya!

They plastidipped it from outside ....

[dovlet]

Wow, its first time i see this thread and did not know that threr a lot of people with blowers.

[geargrinder]

Wow those turbos look almost like OEM....I wonder what had an M60 turbo back in the day..

Nothing.

That's the setup from a Bentley Arnage, notoriously will no-way-no-how fit an E39. Well proven. There used to be a tidy set or 2 floating around the USA... chump #1 would buy them, all asssited about his super twin turbo... would find out that it was basically a no-go impossible, and, that the Bentley TT motor dind't really make tons of power anyway all things considered, and would then quietly sell them off to chump #2 or #3 with some "oh I just don't have the time... but 'm sure you can get them to fit..." story... who would then start the process over again. "hey guys look what I got! this is gonna be great!".

I got the last Arnage poser listed in the deadpool in fact, we just haven't seen anybody pop up in a while.

Have a look at this thread for pix of the setup when its actually nice and not a pile of bottom-of-ocean scrap junk.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-give-me-gains

And seriously. That example in that auction is worthless. Definitely a Bentley was dredged up off the bottom of the Thames and then parted out.

[tptrsn]

We can't have this languishing on the 13th page of the forum or whatever!

GG, I'm dailying my turbo ride on about 15.5psi, running the corn juice in the single digit temps. Last quarter mile time before the turbo upgrade that made the car finally feel good was:

EndOf2017DragStripResult-Sm.jpg

Hoping to have a better result to share in the spring. Chris put the elbow-slam beatdown on me there at the end of the fall.

[R Shaffner]

Fascinating. Thank you, GG.

Frankly, I'm amazed that the guts of the M62 can handle so much power. Or is that wrong? How many of the failures are related to pushing the stock components too far, compared to those that failed for other reasons?

I've had 8 turbo cars over the years, all Saabs and Volvos. That goes back to the late 70's when only Porsche and Saab were selling them. Back then, the standard practice was to reduce the compression ratio on the turbo engines (somehow 7:1 sticks out in my memory, but it might not have been that low). The turbos were large relative to the engines, and turbo lag was a fact of life.

The sling-shot effect was even more pronounced because the engine had such a low base ratio. If you floored it at low rpm or with a bad turbo -- nothing. Significantly less than non-turbo engines of the same size in the same models. But when the turbo would spool up, it was great. Especially on the highway when rpms were higher and the turbo lag was less extreme.

I wonder how much the 10:1 ratio is a contributing factor for the ability of the M62 to handle boost. Most other BMW engines of this period are 10.5, aren't they? In other words, the lower compression ratio frustrates us N/A guys who keep thinking we should be able to get more out of this engine, but it might help those of you who make the leap to warp drive.

(That applies to you NOS guys too.)

[philly98540]

I'm dailying my turbo ride on about 15.5psi, running the corn juice in the single digit temps.
Hoping to have a better result to share in the spring. Chris put the elbow-slam beatdown on me there at the end of the fall.

I was setting a low bar for you! Your sled better put some busses on my car with big boost everywhere!! I may need to go with an even smaller pulley.

[geargrinder]

Frankly, I'm amazed that the guts of the M62 can handle so much power. Or is that wrong? How many of the failures are related to pushing the stock components too far, compared to those that failed for other reasons?

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who actually built a motor that ran long enough to blow up I basically am willing to at least note as some kind of success.
The biggest failure is a failure to execute on a pipe dream.

Only a few guys have busted these things, but there have been some.

The strengths and weaknesses are pretty well documented in other threads:
- Yes the bottom end of these motors are quite stout, so rod/crank/bearings don't seem to be an issue yet
- The first problem they clearly hit is due to tight ring gaps seizing in bores, breaking pistons and scoring bores... that issue was well identified by guys like tptrsn and wagons
- The other problem a few guys have had is burnt stuff - pistons or valves - but IME that's probably more down to execution (tuning/fueling/timing etc.) than the motors themselves

I wonder how much the 10:1 ratio is a contributing factor for the ability of the M62 to handle boost. Most other BMW engines of this period are 10.5, aren't they?

Yeah, sorta yeah sorta not really, 10:1 would traditionally be considered on the high side for F/I and a ".5" isn't a deal breaker one way or another. 9:1 would be a more traditional modern 'street motor' CR however note that BMW's new turbo motors are all in the 10-10.5:1 range. I'm guessing that evolution is probably down to improved engine management systems with knock sensors and protections etc. etc., and, improved internal breathing and heat management, and also the different strategy of small fast spooling low boost schemes vs the old school "stomp, wait, neck-snap" type of motors. So yeah 10:1 is better than 11:1 obv for handling light boost but at same time I think you want to knock it down if you want to really make huge power. That's exactly what the M52 boys do on the I6's... stock CR up to a point, then gotta get serious on the internals to beef it up and knock the CR down a little bit. None of the M62 builds have gotten there yet although I think the M60 big power turbo crazy builds you see in Europe have.

[Kenny1958]

I'm running decompression rods which according to Thads fantastic maths skills deduced that its about 8.4-1

I'ts still running well, just done the vanos seals but need to run it from a new ecu so i have better control.
Hopefully i can afford that in the spring we'll see.

[wagons ho]

Deadpool, great movie, bad list to be on.
I'm throwing money and time at my project right now.
Tweek this, fiddle with that.
Washing up to go home, but excited to see everything coming together.
20 foot stick of stainless tubing for fuel rails, 12 feet of extruded being delivered tomorrow for adapters, more little parts off the water jet. And 7 blower units.
They are available again on eBay after a brief absence and possibility of all being bought by one person. That had severely dampened my enthusiasm. I needed the supply of brand new blower units to make this a seamless kit.

[MisterM52]

Lets get this straight Pilgrims.

1. I'm a John Wayne type of guy see.

2. Pilgrims, Deadpool is one of the worse movies of male emasculation I have seen out of modern day hollynowood.

3. And a word to you Pilgrims, I am gona see this Deadpool, We will likely start work mid year this year and bring out and succeed where every one else has failed.

M60/M62 BMW V8 and M122H and TVS 2.3L Eaton Project Coming Straight Through.

Signed With Warm Regards and Kisses

- Hyde

[jon316i]

Do I have sufficient credentials to get on the deadpool?

[wagons ho]

Do I have sufficient credentials to get on the deadpool?

Jon, technically you are on the list under the toolman setup. Which is marked as completed on the title page chart.
I'm trying to get the completed, running column checked off for me but now i need to add an engine management system to the list.

[tptrsn]

Lets get this straight Pilgrims.

1. I'm a John Wayne type of guy see.

2. Pilgrims, Deadpool is one of the worse movies of male emasculation I have seen out of modern day hollynowood.

3. And a word to you Pilgrims, I am gona see this Deadpool, We will likely start work mid year this year and bring out and succeed where every one else has failed.

M60/M62 BMW V8 and M122H and TVS 2.3L Eaton Project Coming Straight Through.

Signed With Warm Regards and Kisses

- Hyde

To round out your declaration really nicely, can you give us a projection of what performance you will produce with your setup? I mean it is one thing to make the hardware sit in place and function (which seems to be all you're claiming so far), and it is another thing altogether to produce some noteworthy performance increases.

So, what is your performance gain target?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm trying to get the completed, running column checked off for me but now i need to add an engine management system to the list.

Indeed, that can definitely be the tricky part.

Now spill some beans on that Chrysler trans adapter setup you keep teasing us with!

[tptrsn]

I was setting a low bar for you! Your sled better put some busses on my car with big boost everywhere!! I may need to go with an even smaller pulley.

A LOW BAR!!!

If I can get over that bar and force you to install a smaller pulley I'll be a happy guy. Think how snappy your car will feel with the boost coming in lower in the RPM range, and making more total up top... YUM!

[geargrinder]

If I can get over that bar and force you to install a smaller pulley I'll be a happy guy. Think how snappy your car will feel with the boost coming in lower in the RPM range, and making more total up top... YUM!

You just want to see more broken motors to prove your discovery that ring gaps are the limiting factor. ;^)

I say Philly should go for a bigger centriblower. There's not much diameter left to size down anyway! Of course there's always a bigger crank pulley too but I like the bigger-snail-shell idea myself.

[philly98540]

Yeah, a bit jealous of your low rpm turbo boots!! With my current pulley, my car has some decent ooomph putting around town without needing to rev the crap out of it. The centri seems to do decently OK on the V8 when pullied enough. If I had TU, it be even better for sure. Hear that JC? Your car is up next!

- - - Updated - - -

Just saw JC's post. Yeah, likely near limits of the Si, but I may try the 2.625 or 2.75 pulley and see if it slips. I'd rather not mess with the crank pulley atm. Going bigger blower would be interesting. An yeah, lets see some solid tuned boosted M62's blowing up due to gaps closing. I'm still concerned, but remain optomistic that stock gaps on pump with meth and good tune, can take alot. Or of course, E85.

[tptrsn]

Bigger snail is another solid idea for sure, but that smaller pulley seems so easy to try that you really might as well see what happens..

The ring gap idea did seem like it had legs, and maybe still does, but after pushing close to 20psi into my engine with this turbo, I'm starting to think more and more that the ring gap issue was really exacerbated by bad tunes. Especially after seeing the scary random stuff I saw in my logs under boost with the DME. It was so weird, and I could easily see how it could end an engine in a short time if a guy wasn't keeping a really close eye on the wideband and logs of timing.

So that takes us back to your feeling JC, that these engines are pretty robust. I think I'm getting there too. Chris' results provide encouraging support to that notion. As do 516SC's and his buddies over there.

Next up for me is to get the next new clutch in the car and get some solid tuning done on my setup, either at the track, or a dyno. After that to beef up my fuel delivery some, to see if I can take these 80# injectors a bit further. But before that I need to get a bit of work done on the LRS, and for that I would really like some temps above single digits Fahrenheit... Heading to Texas next week, so hopefully after that I can start making some headway.

[Johnbennett103]

I'll put my head on the chopping block. I am doing an m60b30 twin turbo build for a future GT40 kit car build. So far I have the short block put together using coated e36 pistons and m60 rods and crank (I know its cast, but an M60b40 crank would not fit!). I found that N63 turbo manifolds fit the cylinder spacing exactly, and mount easily with adapter plates. Further I found that a Ferrari Mondial intake will also fit with an adapter plate, just need to fabricate. So in the end, I will have twin turbos that feed into each side of the intake. I figured the only place this engine would fit would be in a kit car, and the GT40 fit the bill.

Currently I am working on the Porsche 996 transmission adapter, and then I will move onto rebuilding the heads. Here are photos from late last year. Will update if there is interest.


IMG_2446.jpg57c9859a3eb00.jpg

[tptrsn]

DAMN!! That's outside the box for sure! Can't wait to see how it progresses.

[JimLev]

JohnB, where ya getting the GT40 kit from?
Post a build build thread here, it got a BMW engine in it so your covered.

[geargrinder]

I'll put my head on the chopping block. I am doing an m60b30 twin turbo build for a future GT40 kit car build. So far I have the short block put together using coated e36 pistons and m60 rods and crank (I know its cast, but an M60b40 crank would not fit!). I found that N63 turbo manifolds fit the cylinder spacing exactly, and mount easily with adapter plates. Further I found that a Ferrari Mondial intake will also fit with an adapter plate, just need to fabricate. So in the end, I will have twin turbos that feed into each side of the intake. I figured the only place this engine would fit would be in a kit car, and the GT40 fit the bill.

Currently I am working on the Porsche 996 transmission adapter, and then I will move onto rebuilding the heads. Here are photos from late last year. Will update if there is interest.


IMG_2446.jpg57c9859a3eb00.jpg

Super cool. Doesn't even remotely qualify for deadpool for reasons explained, is just a cool project. Agreed post up a project thread! That is a crazy collection of proposed parts!