Return of an Original Gangsta

[autox320]

Happy New Years guys. Still thinking here. Ordered more bearings and have a plan. Bought some steel to jig this thing together. Pondering to make it 15 degree arms or go for 12 degrees just like the 92dtm E30. Bought some hi vis green 30lb line to stretch tighter and be able to see easier.

I promised I wouldn't cut, grind, or weld any steel over the holidays . So just beer and chillaxing. Well until fireworks tonight anyways.

[OLD MAN]

Hey Jody - you look like you are moving into some MORE work...

Question for you - does the angles you are talking about change the rear roll center? I always thought it was the angle/height difference of the pivots from the outside mount of the trailing arm to the inside mount which would also change static chamber? Looks like I am going to learn something new.

The angle you are working on will change the rate at which the chamber changes through trailing arm travel - less angle means less chamber change during wheel travel. you will also lose rear roll steer in corners which would be great for long swapping turns on track, not sure as good for short sharp auto-x corners?

Daryl

[hdx]

I always wanted to eliminate the sub frame and mod the trailing arms to rod ends .

[autox320]

Hey guys, yes and yes. This is me thinking out loud. The sweep angle effects everything. From the datsun forums here's a basic graph showing with 15" wheels up to 1/8" total toe change at about 2", but 1/4" total change at 3". Funny how they always say the e21 was tail happy well that would be why, it's toe steering under compression. With stiffer suspension it can make it snappy. Camber gain is also through the roof which is the same issues with the front end if not under control. Static settings end up high to start with. True if move the sweep closer to 0 degrees ie true trail arm you lose camber gain under roll which is not good (like a rail buggy). Some sweep is preferred and apparently BMW liked 12 degrees in their last iteration of dtm for the e30 chassis. From scouring over the SAE baja forums they want some gain also but run a lower 7 degree sweep. I'm not 100% set on what I can do or make. I'm slowly working on an adjuster like the dtm setup. There's a few that have made them, and a few that resort to a slip plate design which I'm trying to avoid if I can. I really like the 92 e30 setup cause it allows to change everything at the outer leg with a knuckle. This spot on a semi trail arm allows to make your settings and not effect everything else (like if used the inner leg that some datsun guys do). Lastly here's a pic of the 92 dtm version. The outer leg is moved up to change roll center, but allows toe and camber adjustment. I figure whatever I have to do to get something made I'm going to modify the body if needed. Kinda a challenge accepted moment I hope goes well.





92dtm arm

[hdx]

When I built my second car I wanted to do a similar setup.
After testing the car on track and recording the travel. We put it on a cansas jack frame machine chained it up and put a set of smart alignment strings on .
We found under cornering ,max acceleration or braking the cars toes in 2mm .
My friend who did the testing mostly works on setting up Porsche cup cars and was impressed by the tests .
We feel you want to gain a little toe in , and that is what keeps it from spinning out.
I never did anything to the rear other than a alpina dual mount diff cover , slotting and camber toe adjusters.

[autox320]

When I built my second car I wanted to do a similar setup.
After testing the car on track and recording the travel. We put it on a cansas jack frame machine chained it up and put a set of smart alignment strings on .
We found under cornering ,max acceleration or braking the cars toes in 2mm .
My friend who did the testing mostly works on setting up Porsche cup cars and was impressed by the tests .
We feel you want to gain a little toe in , and that is what keeps it from spinning out.
I never did anything to the rear other than a alpina dual mount diff cover , slotting and camber toe adjusters.

I know what your saying man I initially wanted to leave this part of the project be. I'm familiar with pcar owners may be surprised at that seeming small amount of change in settings. Ran across lot's of threads on the older 911/banana arm/new 900 series mounts/and what they do to have RC plus adjustment. I could of just left this alone, but figured I'll learn something and really just to see if I can actually make a version. If so I plan to also adapt it to the M3 in the near future when it gets completely stripped down. While the car is this far apart and things easy to mock up it's way to tempting not to try.

[autox320]

Been busy with life and little time for the project. Few hours here and there I take out some stress by making myself think of building this thing. So where am I so far. Well lets see. Decided to put the half priced harbor freight tube notcher to some hard use. Just bought it to finish the last few bars on the cage work to make things easier and it has. Works really well for Chinese junk. I welded on some 1/4 plate extending the work platform of it. Then height wise found some scrap rectangle tubing and chopped and welded on a chunk of 1" OD .120 wall moly tube (ID 3/4"). This gave a solid work area for what I was starting to need. Part of the elaborate toe adjusters of the late dtm e30 are some adjuster barrels. This way you turn the barrel to easily adjust toe instead of having to take off the heim. Pretty slick, but nobody will sell the barrel or the knuckles for the adjusters. Adapters come close but need to be longer, and the only adapters I found even remotely close are for making homemade silencers for weapons to use standard screw on oil filters. That was a dead end. So Dad once again with his wise input says just drill out a bolt you need and tap it.

Started working on using something standard but fine thread when adjustments are made it's fine. Also fine thread gives more meat of metal on the bolt, the cross section is thicker giving more strength. That's why you find all heim joints in fine thread. The tube notcher jig allowed me to diy drill a straight hole through the bolt. We stripped down the 1972 black and decker drill I burned up during the reaming of the struts. Used it's heavy duty all metal chuck. As they say don't make'um like they used to. I drilled extra holes of the shank bearing of the tube notcher and tapped them for 5/16 bolts giving even finer hold of the chuck. Besides after using it awhile the chinese bronze bushings do wallow out giving play. I took up that slop and gave it arrow precision. I cupped the back of the drill with a chunk of scrap 2x4 that had a 2" hole saw cut in it. This allowed comfortable leaning into with a pad on it to my chest giving some pressure. Say it again, I know I need a press especially in these moments. Few beers and got through it though with some grunt work.

Sure this setup had it's moments and carnage. I learned a lot and really should find a machinist friend that has a easier way to cut these , but what's the fun in that. Had some freebie bits to learn on then bought some nicer ones to do the final version. HSS and cobalt will cut these, but have limitations. Using a battery drill allowed nice slower speeds needed. A press with this exact rig would be best, but I've yet to buy a press. I know beat me up, but I never seem to need one but a few times a year and they take up way to much space IMO. The chinese bits from fastenal (FMT) work but take a few extra to do the job. They are good bits though and are Norseman knock offs. Better ones are the USA made Norseman bits. They tend to make it a bolt and a half even with heavy lube, but eventually quit too. Don't try this with garbage bits(lowes, home depot) buy something from a hardware store, I did that too and had failures. Mostly with the smaller pilot bits(3/16"). If cheap they tend to break pieces of the tip off inside. Once a small fragment gets in there might as well toss the bolt and start over. I didn't once and continued anyway. Broke a 29/64 cobalt bit in half once reached the frag which wasn't pretty. A graveyard of bolts and bits show early failures. From using cheap bits, to not being center even after measuring/shimming straight. To breaking not lubing or stopping enough, or using a cheap tap.

In the end though I found the right shimming of using washers of the right thickness. Used better bits, and we have some nice adjusters made right here on the bench. For the outer legs will be these adjusters; Grade 8; 3/4-16 approx 2" bolt, threaded with a 1/2-20 QA1 chromoly endura heim joint and QA1 spacers. The sphericals for the inner legs I plan to use these QA1 5/8" in FK 1.5" OD cups with spacers for 1/2" bores to use all 1/2" hardware.

Still need to make the knuckle adjuster for the heims, and start a plan of the rest. Just need some free time.

Trail arm jig; welded box 3" tubing and some heavy 1/4 angle.


Frankenstein notcher; redneck precision drilling/tapping machine


Carnage and failures; HSS burnouts, cobalt frag, bolt graveyard


Final product

[Somjuan]

I like it! Reminds me of some types of surgical screws used to hold tension bars in place. It should fit the bill nicely

[autox320]

So made some replica dtm adjusters my own style. Tried to think of weight, strength, range of adjust-ability, and making out of common materials.
The file is your friend on these guys. Needs to move smooth like a weapon slide.

I used 1-1/4" square .120 wall tubing, some 1" solid square bar, and pieces of 1/8 plate as caps. One side I left ability to open one end and take out the entire guts if needed. The cap is two pieces of 1/8 plate one smaller diameter welded to the other, and filed to fit. This centers the cap into the end. Ended up with 1/2-13 grade 8 bolts I cut making studs for camber adjustment. The toe bolt or (3/4" bolt) barrel has approx 4 turns on it either way in or out keeping a very safe minimum thread engagement of the main barrel. The way it's planned to work can move the trail arm leg from centered inward 3/8" for toe in or from center 3/8" out. The larger slotted main barrel of 1-1/4" tube is the camber adjuster. It can move about 3/4" up or down from center. Most I've seen usually can get about 1/4 to 1/2" with slip plates, so the dtm style can get a bit more if needed. The early E30 grpA adjusters were shorter with less adjustment slot. The barrel stack height was 88mm on early grpA cars with a shorter slot for camber. Later E30 dtm 90's up to 92' the last version is 98.5mm (3.8") tall with a longer slot for camber. Mine measure out at 3.7" tall, and can fully bottom exactly at either end of the slot.

A little work but made the parts fit smooth enough where I can put it in the vise and move the adjust by turning a camber nut by hand. Now to see if can put these to use. Measured, counted turning threads, locked down centered of adjustments. Ready to attempt the arms next.

Anyways here ya go. Beer consumed was a fitting name for this job

[autox320]

well no turning back now

Started in on the subframe, got tired of thinking about it and started doing. Lot's of brackets cut out to make the new mounts. Much easier to scrap the inner mounts too and just make them how I need them. Got a bit ahead of myself and will cause some extra work. I cut off the mounts on the side I didn't have a jig for doh! now I'll have to measure and mirror with another piece of 3" square. Face palm moment but doable. Will have to string it again and brake out the large square.
After a few brews came up with an even easier way to move the inner mount angle. I chose 12 degree sweep angle pivots for the attachment of the arms I still need to make. Mig welding 1/8" brackets and gussets. They only need buzzed on one side to save weight, so I chose most on the backside to stitch them on an keep the mount area cleaner. Factory mounts were the same way. Gave enough box room (3" wide) of the outer mount to fiddle with the spacers once on the car.

Here's a look with what I hope turns out good with the new mount points.

12 degree sweep angle E21 subframe. I've never seen one of these before. Clanking a few brews just looking at it. I have to say I think it turned out pretty cool. Now to make arms and make the damn thing fit the car. I mock measured before hand and know I'll have to cut some clearance, but I need to anyway. I plan to tie the top of the outer mount box into the cage just like the 92 E30 dtm cars.



point of no return


started with a chunk of 3/4 moly tubing set at the centerline of the factory hole, but setback to make the sweep angle easier to reach with the inside mount moved less forward


messing around to see what I can see; verified with mech angle finder too with strings; liked the accuracy of the mag mount one; kiss


setting for 12 degrees


had to use glasses but yup it's 12


gussets and more gussets just in case




mock up










have ability to change the RC with spacers but starting an wanting to use this 3/4" putting the arm end up from the factory hole centerline; I plan to space the subframe and diff accordingly

[autox320]

Note to self don't cut things off till have a jig. Still working on mirroring the side that has the jig, but should be able to verify position and get it sorted out. Already have the easy part of 3" square tubing welded onto the subframe. The trail arm mount angle iron is a part that is a compound angle. If ever wonder it's 0.5 degrees toe in from square, so yeah as my foreign buddies use to say "simple as cake" which of course to us Americans is easy as pie.

Dad finally came back from few weeks of vacation to check it out. Few beers in he looks it over and I'm waiting for first words of additional ideas. Yeah first thing he said was just weld up the other side of the gussets . So did that and started on the missing jig . . .

[OLD MAN]

Note to self don't cut things off till have a jig. Still working on mirroring the side that has the jig, but should be able to verify position and get it sorted out. Already have the easy part of 3" square tubing welded onto the subframe. The trail arm mount angle iron is a part that is a compound angle. If ever wonder it's 0.5 degrees toe in from square, so yeah as my foreign buddies use to say "simple as cake" which of course to us Americans is easy as pie.

Dad finally came back from few weeks of vacation to check it out. Few beers in he looks it over and I'm waiting for first words of additional ideas. Yeah first thing he said was just weld up the other side of the gussets . So did that and started on the missing jig . . .

Jody - what I did was make a jig that bolted to one side but could be flipped over to hold the other side. So make the jig of the finished side and then just turn it upside down and fix to the other side, but your done already so never mind....LOL

Looking good!

[autox320]

Hey Daryl, yeah I didn't have another piece of angle to mirror it yet, so had to pick up another drop section. I did try tacking some scraps together flipping actually and was using the backside which didn't work. Face side was an ah ha moment so should be ok eventually. I'm sure I'll remember this for future reference, so kinda glad it happened. Makes ya think before getting to far. Save's from having to make a jig for your jig

[hotdish]

I thought ski's build thread got pretty crazy in the middle, but this takes the cake

[epmedia]

Indeed, lots of fab work.

I know those are SAE grade 8 bolts (~metric grade 10.9) you're using and I'm not sure what sort of load will be on those drilled/threaded bolts, but consider the strength before going too balls-out.

I'm only mentioning this because one of my kid's car's (87 supra) had a metric grade 10.9 bolt that broke on the rear trailing arm. We later found the broken pieces of the bolt that were drilled similar, but had much more meat than the bolts you posted pics of. Fortunately he was only accelerating straight up a hill at ~25mph.

[autox320]

Indeed, lots of fab work.

I know those are SAE grade 8 bolts (~metric grade 10.9) you're using and I'm not sure what sort of load will be on those drilled/threaded bolts, but consider the strength before going too balls-out.

I'm only mentioning this because one of my kid's car's (87 supra) had a metric grade 10.9 bolt that broke on the rear trailing arm. We later found the broken pieces of the bolt that were drilled similar, but had much more meat than the bolts you posted pics of. Fortunately he was only accelerating straight up a hill at ~25mph.

I'll take into consideration and yes it seems sketch unless I looked at thread engagement. Honestly I'm not 100% sure what to expect either. Once things are locked down it's three directions of jam nuts the entire piece becomes solid. At that point it's up to where it could shear. The barrel is the weakest spot just behind the 3/4 jam nut. Bolts are 3/4 fine with 1/2 holes leaves about 1/8 wall of high tensile steel. Diameter of 3/4 and 1/8 wall should handle it. Cutting the numbers of shear by a third isn't the best way to calculate, but ballparks it. Diameter is biggest factor for strength, second is wall thickness. Basically it's about the numbers of a 1/2 bolt which is what your ultimately riding on with a 1/2" heim. The most important part IMO; the barrel bolt is always threaded with heim threads where at null or centered it's about 1/4" engaged past the 3/4 jam and into the actual camber barrel holder. That's better than I originally planned on and keeps any "hollow bolt" from being outside the camber adjuster barrel. If needed more toe in or out that area decreases one way or the other. Forces on this should be forward and back not in bending. The only time it could be in bending load is if the spring binds and or bottom out going infinite. Good thing we have coil over rear or this really wouldn't work. If ever seen E30 guys try they have to realize the springs inbound on the trail arm are almost binding already. They bend heims if try that.

I'm actually in touch with someone who has the 92 DTM arms installed on a car. He should help me out with some measurements before I weld these suckers on making the trail arm. Once these are welded on with the starting point of adjustments, they become part of the outer distance forever so I asked a few questions. Like where is the dtm adjuster turns to be approx 1/16" toe in. How much toe adjustment is there from center etc. Factory toe is usually 1/8 per side at 1/4 total rear. Actual numbers are (.16"/4mm) per side. Depending on power to the rear some adjust for up to 1/4" total toe. To make turn tighter slower corners can dial out rear toe. Closer to zero total toe, the scarier it gets at high speed I may want to start off with it choked up with mostly toe out adjustment turns, but part of me wants to find a sweet spot if possible.
Another factor to change the start point is just set the jig angle to perfect square for the trail arm mount

- - - Updated - - -

I'll ramble on this a sec cause I did ponder it a bit before making this thing. If not confusing myself enough here's thoughts when actually counted turns of thread engagement. I never count the first full turn when feeding the parts into each other to give a little extra. Also the heim thread count when divided into thirds was more so I put those additional ones in the barrel also.

Example: barrel was 12 + 1 turns to bottom out in the camber barrel all the way to the back. It was cut this length on purpose to account for the jam nut and washers up front and still reach all the way to bottom of the 1-1/4 tubing. So I divided the turns into thirds and gives 4 good turns either way which equates to about 3/8" either way from center the trail arm will grow or shrink. The heim joint was 22 +1 turns to bottom out in the barrel bolt. Divided into thirds I used 7 so 2 extra turns in right there. Then since the barrel is limited to 4 good complete turns either way, the heim has to be set the same. So 7-4 and we have 3 more turns extra in the barrel total of 5 extra which is about 3/8" meat into the barrel further than I originally accounted for.

Far as shear for that then it's a 1/2 chromoly wrapped in .120" wall grade 8 at all times. Like trying to shear a 3/4 bolt the way I see it.

[autox320]

Last night was unsuccessful trying to mirror the jig. Geometry is funny sometimes and something that seems simple will play mind games on me.

Tonight added some additional gussets to the inner mounts. Oh wanted to mention my finding of the diff mount area. I'm sure some know but if ya don't. I overlooked this before but makes sense when I noticed how the diff isn't center, well that area on the subframe isn't the center of the universe. It's about 1" offset, so don't ever try to square off it for something

So had Dad and my girl in here to help with this jig issue. She has better vision than both of us to make sure of position as I tacked it on. She'd call out degree changes as I strategically went to work. Drum roll please . . . FINALLY! got it. Used some scrap C channel. It's not bolted to the angle iron when snapped this pic. Glad that mind game is over so I can go back to beer.





jig for your jig ; a control arm jig from the other side flipped over to find this side. Looks like something you'd find on a Prius

[autox320]

Spent several times thinking and remeasuring to make sure everything is how I want. Happy with everything it's time to move forward. Grinder says to trail arm "don't worry, this will only hurt . . .forever"







Was joking with Dad on point of no return

[autox320]

You guys know if it's quiet around here, I'm really busy
Used another favorite material a lot of sprint car guys use; 3/4" .120 wall moly tubing.

Initially tacked together some tubing sacrificing material to see some measurements and fitment. Then started yesterday and made the final version. Some angles are hard to calculate until you try to fit a wheel or move the adjuster. Wanted to see what I was doing before making these. So per turn on the barrel adjuster for toe it's 1/16" per turn. I set my final position at factory in the jig with 3 turns available to add toe in. I did this for a reason due to when measuring and trusting what I saw the jig showed toed out when the arms were parallel. At first I thought maybe one was bent or something when made the jig but both are identical in measurement. Mine measured toe out at mid point of the arc when arms parallel. Gave ability to adjust this out at ride height I'll run at. Dad gave a pointer on welding close to the bearing area without splatter by shielding it with an aluminum scrap.

I plan to finish these arms with sheeting with dimple die holes I hope. Will make them look just like the 92 dtm arms. The basic design follows the 92 style but with constraints of angles for the e21. I had thoughts of widening the track and many other thoughts before making these. One of the reasons it took so long was pondering a few key things like halfshafts, but thought of another plan for that if can make it happen. True to form here's my version of 92dtm e30 arms but custom made for a e21.

Threw them in to see what it looks like. A quick test fit to the car mocked up the entire subframe and actually not much to cut of the body except where the adjuster swings into the body on compression. Kinda expected worse The outer box for the outer leg will fit without cutting. I plan to drill up and hole saw out above it. Weld in a 1.5" roll tube to gusset into the cage. Still need to get the hubs turned to fit the VW rear disc brakes, then make the brackets to hang the calipers on. Simple as cake.


making of E21 version; e30 92dtm arms; naked without sheeting

[Somjuan]

...Those are some good welds. To quote someone, I don't smoke, but after something that satisfying maybe just one.

Decided on the wheels? I'm guessing you already have something in mind

[autox320]

Thanks man I try with the little miller mig setup we use. I had to die grind and clearance around the bearing. Faced the circlips inward away from load, so clearanced to be able to remove them from the cups if we ever have to replace them. I actually got my cuts and fitment so close when you weld with mig it adds more than I want, but need to keep penetration to my comfort level. I'll quote an unknown who says I'm not a welder but a professional grinder. Don't smoke, but have a brew on us

Wheels will be the same original BBS 15x7. Been looking at wrapping them in some Federal RSR's actually just to have fun and longevity. They run insane wide for 205's more like 215

[Retoropak]

Thanks man I try with the little miller mig setup we use....

I would be careful with mig welding moly. .120 usually do not require pre/post heating but most welding gurus will tell you to tig chromo. Mig is ok too but you cant control heat input with mig as good as with tig. Especially with smaller mig you need to spend more time in one area to get enough heat/penetration and to get nice puddle going which in fact puts more heat into the material and makes the HAZ bigger. Next time get some propane torch and preheat to 200-300F and either postheat it or get a bucket of sand and dump the hot piece into the sand to slow down the cooling. Chromo likes to crack if cooled to fast. Oh and make sure to swap your wire to er80s-d2 or d6 to match the strength of the moly.

[autox320]

I would be careful with mig welding moly. .120 usually do not require pre/post heating but most welding gurus will tell you to tig chromo. Mig is ok too but you cant control heat input with mig as good as with tig. Especially with smaller mig you need to spend more time in one area to get enough heat/penetration and to get nice puddle going which in fact puts more heat into the material and makes the HAZ bigger. Next time get some propane torch and preheat to 200-300F and either postheat it or get a bucket of sand and dump the hot piece into the sand to slow down the cooling. Chromo likes to crack if cooled to fast. Oh and make sure to swap your wire to er80s-d2 or d6 to match the strength of the moly.

Thanks for the info. I know your not trying to criticize, and the details are appreciated. A lot would overlook even myself at times.

I'm definitely not an expert, but I've used this tubing before with mig with great results. But not to say it can't fail cause nothing is perfect. Best practice is tig, I completely agree with that especially on the heat control.
When I asked around it's controversial to me, so here's what I gathered. Guys do mig moly a lot in field practice. On the er80s-d2 wire, yes it does have more moly content for the weld to equal the material, but best to only use if definitely going to have very controlled pre and post heat. The weld with er80s-d2 can actually be too hard causing the actual weld to crack easier. At least on cooling in my case I'd cover in a leather weld blanket. I figure I'm also working in a heated garage above 70F at times when the woodstove is about to drive me out. I put this together as much as possible leaving in the jig due to heat can make things a pretzel when using mig. Only needed a couple small areas I couldn't reach until they were outside the jig where they rested on a 3/8" steel plate and covered after welding. Best I can do with what I've got, and it's worked well.
Just putting two pieces together and hit with a hammer test. I only could break a tack weld if didn't use gas on purpose making a crappy weld. A couple of tacks with gas proved to be very difficult to break unless put relief cuts in them with a cutoff wheel. Once welded 360 I think I'd need a press to see what happens. I really still find it amazing how strong this 3/4 stuff really is.

[Retoropak]

No not criticizing at all. I am just scared of chromo thats it. That is why i used docol r8 on my control arms. It is all good as long as you tested the welds and you're confident in your technique.

Btw. Your mig skills are excellent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[autox320]

Hammer testing DIY.

Just posting for interest, cause I was too at first. Don't be scared moly is awesome stuff. Old timers would oxyfuel weld this stuff with a torch for early airframes. These are the test pieces welded up just butt welded ie no fitting at all; so not even a perfect joint. Just half ass butt together and laid a mig bead. One is a straight butt joint and the other has a 45 cut piece just placed up to a straight one. These were mig welded with standard .030 wire on 1/8" setting for 1/8 wall tubing. Chromoly 4130 3/4" OD/ 1/2" ID.

If just welded and just after not letting cool ie extremely hot; I could break the two pieces using a 8 lb long handle sledgehammer. The tube would tear just past the weld as with standard steel failures but the weld would never fail on each test. The weld would seemingly always be in tact.

Once let the pieces completely cool slowly to ambient temp at 70F. I used a cheapo temp gun to see when ready but human backhand touch worked too. Put in the same large Parker vise(Great Depression era vise I like to add btw) to where the long piece can't move braced against the vise vertically. Tightened with a cheater bar always ie piece of tractor axle about 3ft long to give extra ooomph on the vise clamp. Whaled on the nub end with a 8 lb long handled sledge hammer. Each piece was beat to hell for over 5 minutes and between beers whaled on it more. Both only started to eventually bend and never broke. The arc's in the pieces you see were from giving it all I had with Dad's larger 8 lb sledge. When the 5 lb mini wasn't enough. Just impressive IMO and no wonder it's used in airframes. So my thought is don't be scared of something till you try it Just cool it slowly covered with a piece of leather till ambient temp. Preferably 70F or above. Just these little 3/4 tubes amaze me every time. So much so I've used it in strategic places on the M3 in the past. There's been a piece that's seam welded between the front frame rails on it when deleted the bumper to stiffen the front end. Another as a custom X brace, and another as a "tunnel" brace. Can lift the car by the front bumper piece. Anyways enough rambling, just cool stuff to me.