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Thread: Return of an Original Gangsta

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    NC
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    2,126
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    Hey guys just watching the rain and brainstorming. Something Dad and I talked about is cutting the firewall and moving the engine back far as possible. Anyone have any collection of photos using the E21 doing this? Just post in here. I've lost a lot of pictures from early days I collected. Seems some ancient pics are lost in google. I've a few of suspension designs but none that really show motor placement.

    We'll probably stay wet sump so it will limit things and give a challenge. I've a few E30 pics like this M42 that is like the DTM placement. Oil cap at strut tower. No weight hanging over front axle centerline

    Like this,
    MOVE ENGINE BACK.jpg
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    20,728
    My Cars
    E21, E24, E34, E46
    Welcome back! I still have the 'enthusiast' sticker on my car, and another one unused. I used to walk to my college library every day at lunch to get on bmw320i.com. Long before you could fit the internet in your pocket.


    Rocker locks: After installing some of the typical 5/8" locks for the first time recently, I realized they crush the hollow shaft slightly due to the difference between 5/8 and 15.5mm. Not good. I only found one mention of this online from an M30 guy who says the "right" way is to machine aluminum tubes to precise lengths that fit over the shaft and take up the space between the rocker and the rocker stand. A lot of work, but should work brilliantly. Either that or custom machine 15.5mm rocker locks like yours which are definitely a lot of work and would cost way too much to sell. Hard to believe all of the major engine builders sell them with 5/8 locks considering this flaw.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    NC
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    Layne hows it going man. See I missed you guys. Yup the shaft collars work but cut aluminum bar is better. Guess not suppose to tighten them all the way down. Race part no warranty if works just give me your money. Aftermarket can be fun sometimes. Dad was bored in those days did side projects at work. He made those over a lunch break once. I try not to get tied up on what companies sell with their issues. Even the E30M3 aftermarket is not without some serious flaws ) . They see you coming. Now I just grab another beer and have a laugh.

    Seems like forever ago man. I've learned a lot since then reflecting looking back. I've pics of when we wrenched on this car from the start. I was taking my time cleaning out the parts left. In a way I liked how it was just sitting exactly how I left it. Was an absolute idiot few years ago for scrapping an entire spare non-sunroof car shell full of parts. I had stuff pouring out the windows in it. Extra everything struts, front ends, subframes you name it. Had spare engine blocks which I sold. I still have 3 extra heads though I could slap myself now for that and I try not to think about it. Just a stupid move I'll not repeat. Don't think it's dumb to hoard parts within your own storage limits. One day you will use it if a car guy. As I'm realizing with the E30 chassis the things are collectors now. People will outright gouge prices on ebay and the internet for parts. Times have changed and I was gone so long I missed it happening. My mind can't get over it I guess. BTW I changed jobs and moved back to the US the start of 2014. So 2yrs of dust settling and here I am looking at this E21 again. Just so full circle it's surreal.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  4. #29
    Join Date
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    WIP; 3 rounds of soaking with bleach and dawn solution then spraying clean with a pressure washer. Next will be heavy paint stripper on the inside. I did try a quart of citristrip and was a no go. It barely removed anything after a concentrated dose on a floor pan with a brush and sitting over 24hrs. Aircraft stripper(pure lye) it is then I still have one good 320i.com sticker left it's on the beer fridge. The fridge now sits on the ground cause something else was supporting it. Something I'll be needing for this build, but more on that later
    May have to cut out and replace the front floor pans. The trunk floor is for sure being cut out and replaced with aluminum.

    DSC06438.jpg
    DSC06440.jpg
    DSC06441.jpg
    DSC06439.jpg
    DSC06381.jpg
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Corona California
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    My Cars
    79 320/6 81320i 65malibu
    2.7 4banger got to love it! Thanks for the story and info.

    I noticed in the pictures that you have the grille all typed of? I assume that at speed more then enough air comes in from under the bumper, did you try this without the exit vent first? Or was the exit vent done at the same time?

    The next big thing for the track car is to make my own front lower valance, air dam and splitter. I use to make molds for 1.10th scale R/C cars and did one of the 1997 Volvo 850 BTTC saloon, I want to do some like they ran that come out as wide as the front tires and fade into the front fenders. The reason I asked about how you did the removable front end is I am sure the front end will have to come off quick and easy to be able get the car on and off the trailer when I am done.

    I miss the old 320.com and the tech info on the site

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  6. #31
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    Thanks I spent some time on the S14 build. The tape is just to cover the front since it doesn't go anywhere it's just void for airflow. The entire front is ducted. Intake is the two slits below the bumper and exit out the hood. I can go into the details on it in PM, but if it's ok I'll post what I did here. Basically the rad and oil cooler is tilted forward and ductwork was made front and rear to streamline airflow. The front intake only needs to be a 1/6 to 1/3 ratio of your core size. Mine is 1/6. The exit out the hood opening is where high pressure would exist if didn't cut the hood. The exit duct length has to be equal or longer than radiator height.
    All that being said this setup is for track only since it has a bandwidth of operation. Low speed say 35mph you are out of operation of the duct efficiency. Not bad since most run fans anyway. At 50+mph or say 90mph the cooling effect is much greater than a normal setup. Can run WOT all day and not have temp creep. This keeps from needing such a large or multi layered core. This also gives a small amount of added downforce on the front end as the stream passes up over the car. Time attack cars and some high end prototypes use this. Now days I think Corvette and others are starting to see benefits on stock cars using it. I diy'd my duct work out of some old street sign aluminum, rivets, and roof flashing. The original idea is from speeds much faster than cars, but from airplanes. Stolen from the Meredith effect.

    So on a low speed setup for autox I plan to tilt the rad backwards to increase surface. Hill climb and rally cars do this. With the normal engine bay air flow if through the front and down under the car.

    Here's a few snips from a couple books I used. I posted the entire process of my diy on S14power.com in my build thread.

    DuctDesign.GIF
    slant radiator basics.jpg
    rad_air.gif
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    monterey, ca.
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    e21, e30 m3. e46 330ci
    okay so you cut the muster, but I'm still not your bitch!

    glad to see you're still tracking your S14. i bought mine solely for the purpose of track days, but unfortunately my car is an 8.5/10 and now too valuable to risk. this is why i built a M42 powered E21, but sadly I've hadn't had the time to drive it at speed.
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
    88 e30m3
    04 330 dinan3
    84 r1000rt
    02 r1150rs
    all of them gray
    14 f800gsa - red headed stepchild!

  8. #33
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    Hey my initial post was to get attention and see who's in the room. I'd say it worked as intended and I got to meet you right away Tom. Don't take it personal Tom Honestly I don't mind your responses it makes it fun in a sarcastic kinda way. If you don't mind I wouldn't mind if you respond this way on a regular basis. It will keep things interesting.

    On another note I know how you feel on the M3. Maybe just sell it? Outside looking in on guys just holding one that's my first response. Market is hot for guys that want to say they have one in their garage. So take their money and run to fund another project. Mine was one of those 10's with 36,000 miles on it. Bought from a mechanic declined type with probably more money than sense. Luckily he didn't even know what he had. So the BMW gods made sure I saved it from him. Started tracking it in 2009 trying to put more track miles than street. As of 77,000 miles I took out the 2.3 and built a 2.7. Stripped the car and it has 88,700 on it mostly track miles. I use to insure it as a collector car as with many guys. Last appraisal was a ludicrous amount for a car which made the premium high. I was in a mood and something happened. I snapped out of the bs and realized something wtf am I paying this for. Then dropped all extra insurances on it. I basically came to my senses and said if someone is going to ball this car up it's going to be me. I'm never selling and let some collector enjoy it. I refuse to get caught up in the collector train of thought. It's home; meant to be driven hard. If you choose to cross that bridge don't look back. Once on track you wouldn't want to anyway. Only live once, and it's short. After my experiences in the desert for 7.5yrs I'm realizing I shouldn't take life for granted. Enjoy it while it lasts.


    Anyways enough ranting here's some more fun poking
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  9. #34
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    i did quite a few track days with the M3 and there's nothing like it, but 2 events made me reconsider and then the sudden increase in value sealed the deal. both of these events happened at laguna seca raceway.

    the first event was the day i hit turn 3 perfectly and carried a lot of speed into turn 4, just as i hit the apex i ran into a wall of water and promptly looped it. by the time it got to traveling backwards and was able to get the brakes on i was in the gravel was only able to stop the car 6 feet short of hitting the wall.

    the second time i was chasing my buddy and his 88 ford cosworth around the track, i watched as he turned left and disappeared over the corkscrew and then turned in to follow, but as i crested the hill and rounded the corner there he was facing me. fortunately he wasn't on the brakes and the car was still traveling downhill giving me just enough room to get around him.

    i did a half dozen more track events after that, but i was always aware that i could ball it up and that took some of the fun out of it. after that the market went out of sight and it went into the garage and onto jackstands. i don't have any plans of selling it, i will pass it on to my son.

    proof of my screw up.
    Last edited by Tom D; 08-13-2016 at 06:22 PM.
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
    88 e30m3
    04 330 dinan3
    84 r1000rt
    02 r1150rs
    all of them gray
    14 f800gsa - red headed stepchild!

  10. #35
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    Tom thanks for sharing that. Ok I liked you for your responses but now we're friends. I feel ya where you are on that. I've not had to deal with too close calls yet, and don't know exactly what i'd do until it happens. But hopefully I can power through it mentally when it happens. I want to keep flogging it till I can't medically anymore due to old age. I don't have someone to leave mine to. I don't have any kids, but have thought of a worthy candidate. He's 3 but if turns out like his dad will be a hot shoe. If the car survives my stint I'll gladly pass it on that way.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    monterey, ca.
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    e21, e30 m3. e46 330ci
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
    88 e30m3
    04 330 dinan3
    84 r1000rt
    02 r1150rs
    all of them gray
    14 f800gsa - red headed stepchild!

  12. #37
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    Tom nice whip. I'm a sucker for a E30M. I like the 2wheel cage-less too.


    So wearing all the protection gear I can and still armed with the powerwasher. The evil aircraft stripper is getting somewhere. If you use this stuff definitely take it serious. At a minimal I'd cover your eyes with a full mask. I'm also using a painters filter mask when applying. This stuff will get ya. It will chemically burn your skin so wear appropriately. A cheapo version tyvek suit is best. Let it sit for 20-30min then water is the fastest way to neutralize. I'm hitting this thing with all the pressure washer has with a max nozzle. On a deck this is the nozzle that will cut your boards So far this is after a full gallon of aircraft pro paint stripper. Less to sand which means more beer later whoot. I think the rest can be sanded. Obviously the center console I left the deadener on so that will be easier with a heat gun later too. Whew this is one damn dirty job.

    DSC06442.jpg
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    - - - Updated - - -

    IMG_06122.jpg
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  13. #38
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    OK Gents I know it's probably been discussed before. Where's JRCook when needed.

    What's the max torque you think a stock 215mm clutch can handle? After searching around there only seems to be one other option for me which is go to a 228mm to run on a stroker M10. If I went 228mm I'd opt for a m20 clutch kit since the M3 one is way overboard. The M clutch can handle more than most think stock. If don't need 228 the 215mm is lighter and smaller. My current 215mm flywheel is 13lbs. A stock M3 228 flywheel is 19 lbs. The larger 228 clutch would add even more weight and even if lighten the 228 flywheel to 11 lbs I'm losing compared to the 215. If can stay 215 I've a nice new sachs never used bought probably in 2004 era. May try it first if it will hold.

    Stroker as in s14 cranked. We aren't talking ungodly torque so lets be realistic. But it will be used hard and I can't have it slip when banging 3rd gear using a 4.45 and sticky tires.
    Last edited by autox320; 08-15-2016 at 08:19 PM.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Corona California
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    79 320/6 81320i 65malibu
    Jody all depends on your available $$$ to do needed suspension and driveline work to get this max M10 torque output hooked up to the ground. Our experience with the track car is that the CVs are a pretty great safety share pin....

    Saved our drive shaft and clutch twice now!

    - - - Updated - - -

    We have 165ftlbs of torque or so at the wheels with a custom built 3:91 LSD that is about 85% locked up off throttle (it is another store for another time) with a stock used 320-6 clutch and light weight flywheel. Tires spin and clutch does not slip.

    But we do baby the car!

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  15. #40
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    I'm guesstimating definitely under 150ftlbs flywheel so makes me question if a stock sachs 215mm is plenty. I was told the M3 618 stock clutch was fine for my S14 build cause they kept saying it will handle up to 350hp. But soon found out it couldn't hold over about 170ftlbs I was slipping when slapped 3rd breaking in the 2.7. Went to a clutchmaster kevlar setup which also slipped until over 500 miles of agony break in time. Now it's fine.

    Guess might as well ask if anybody knows of a good 215mm uprated clutch if the stocker doesn't hold. I'm ok with mix matching parts. Say for instance there used to be a Porsche clutch the M10 guys used at the track but I can't find part numbers or info anymore online. I should of never purged my email.
    Last edited by autox320; 08-16-2016 at 06:37 AM.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Ohio
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    E21 320i, e39 540i/6
    I had a stock 215mm clutch on a TEP lightened stock flywheel when I first finished the turbo system. It was fully broken in but only held the power for the first few thousand (or hundred?) miles after the turbo install. At that time I was putting down about 200 ft-lbs at 4500 rpm. I upgraded to a Clutchnet 215mm sprung hub 4 puck from TEP and it was pretty aggressive. You can see and hear it in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZWyc3l7bKY

    The problem with the 215mm clutch setup is the design of the drive straps. Rather than being put in 100% tension like most pressure plates (including the 228mm design) they are put in shear which amplifies the stresses surrounding the rivets. I let a friend drive the car and he broke the pressure plate on a power shift. This resulted in the pressure plate being off center and severe engine vibration.

    I'm sure some of that is due to how hard a 4 puck bites, perhaps a sprung hub 6 puck would be a good compromise for a non turbo m10.

    New clutch going in:
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ghlight=clutch

    new clutch coming out a month later, you can see pics of the broken drive straps:
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ghlight=clutch

    '81 320i turbo | t25, 931 CIS, 240hp, 13.92@100mph | 2.2L m10 Turbo Build | My E21 Videos |

  17. #42
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    Clutchnet pricing is doable and it says stg1 is good up to 200ftlbs. The stage1 spec clutch says uses organic material not semi and says can also handle 200ftlbs.
    Sounds like the stock clutch 215mm will be boarderline and eventually puke or burn out.

    Meh kinda still undecided but the clutchnet one is much better dollar ratio than anything I've found so far. Seems clutchnet and spec are about the same clutch kit. Noted for both and I do know a few guys running spec clutches. Clutchmaster and other are out of their minds price wise. I know any clutch I buy in the future I'll avoid kevlar due to the excessive break in period. It works great but have to have to much patience with it in the beginning. In theory it's less wear on surfaces and needs very high clamping pressure plates. I can go in circles on this and think too much. For this build though a stage 1 will do it.

    Thanks Josh
    Last edited by autox320; 08-16-2016 at 12:43 PM.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  18. #43
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    Tep pricing may be even better.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

    '81 320i turbo | t25, 931 CIS, 240hp, 13.92@100mph | 2.2L m10 Turbo Build | My E21 Videos |

  19. #44
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    Well I haven't been around long enough to know you from before I don't think, but I like your style. Somewhere between the removable front and sticking with the m10 we have a bunch in common. I am not sure what you're looking at for power out of it but you could always go the route I did with the clutch. I am running an m52 single mass wheel with am m5 pressure plate, then just a generic 6 puck ceramic disk. now I did have to modify the block and starter a bit to make this happen but nothing crazy. It works great.
    The block modification:

    As for the starter all I did was add a second hole in on of the tabs.

  20. #45
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    Some may remember this Ron Davis radiator we all raved about back in the day. Once out of the car it really is a thick girl. Just a couple pics of it. Definitely going to re-use this nice piece of cooling art.

    What the hell figured might as well post this in this thread before it gets slow and dated. I wasn't going to post cause it's super early and we aren't planning on powering till late winter early spring. You guys know how we are around here. We early post plans and it pushes us to complete what we post. So while drinking brews in the garage Dad and I pondered up what to power the 320. We kinda wanted to stay M10 looking so at first actually considered EFI and the typical dream of supercharging either M90 or M65 eaton. Then we considered a 6pot and just carb. Well we mainly agreed we just wanted a bit more torque without the weight for max handling where the new suspension will win over brute power. So after a few beers a piece and I reached into the fridge to grab us both a fresh one I was like HEY! Um RIGHT HERE! It was right in front of us the whole time holding up the fridge. My original excellent condition 77,000 mile 2.3L S14 complete short block I oiled and stored for a rainy day. I knew better than to sell it, so here it is. Homeless potential. Forgot to add pistons as of now are going to be a custom set from wiseco.

    Topend isn't final but right now it will using a 288 cam we already have. I've thoughts about maybe a 292 Schrick or 284/292 Elgin. We'll see what can squeak out of the 288 TEP cam first since I'm used to it. Thing that I don't like is not being able to change overlap degreeing the cam(SOHC). See it's ground into the cam profile. With DOHC you can tweak on it till find a very sweet spot using both cams to change the VE curve for what kind of power band you want. A SOHC engine it's dial both in/ex advanced or both retarded (think Chevy LS) to just move the entire band. Retard for more topend power, Advance for more midrange and less topend. Checking your valve clearance of course to make sure no contact will occur. Guys that dial cams may already know this stuff. It's something I did a lot on the M3 build due to outside of Schricks specs that actually worked better. See a stroker motor with longer rods has more piston dwell time at TDC and you can take advantage of just a little more cylinder fill. Even with Schrick cams I feel I dialed them much better than a cam card by trial and error. Proud to say this actually helped a few other S14 guys on their builds also. I probably re-timed those cams over 2 dozen times testing.

    Sidebar on the RaceTep turbo cam. I remember some use to argue if it helped cause we didn't have turbos like today. Also no real data on cams or setups back then. Well my guess is the "split" (LSA)profile is retarding the exhaust lobes more than other cams(closer to TDC) which makes the turbo spool faster due to earlier scavenging of the exhaust (early open). See DSM turbo guys do this on DOHC motors. Just old school brain storming in the garage while cleaning up this tear down mess.


    DSC06448.jpg
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    DSC06451.JPG
    DSC06384.JPG
    Last edited by autox320; 08-16-2016 at 07:31 PM.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Canberra, ACT, Straya
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    2,682
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    82' E21 318i, 92 MB-180E
    Quote Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
    Some may remember this Ron Davis radiator we all raved about back in the day. Once out of the car it really is a thick girl. Just a couple pics of it. Definitely going to re-use this nice piece of cooling art.

    What the hell figured might as well post this in this thread before it gets slow and dated. I wasn't going to post cause it's super early and we aren't planning on powering till late winter early spring. You guys know how we are around here. We early post plans and it pushes us to complete what we post. So while drinking brews in the garage Dad and I pondered up what to power the 320. We kinda wanted to stay M10 looking so at first actually considered EFI and the typical dream of supercharging either M90 or M65 eaton. Then we considered a 6pot and just carb. Well we mainly agreed we just wanted a bit more torque without the weight for max handling where the new suspension will win over brute power. So after a few beers a piece and I reached into the fridge to grab us both a fresh one I was like HEY! Um RIGHT HERE! It was right in front of us the whole time holding up the fridge. My original excellent condition 77,000 mile 2.3L S14 complete short block I oiled and stored for a rainy day. I knew better than to sell it, so here it is. Homeless potential. Forgot to add pistons as of now are going to be a custom set from wiseco.

    Topend isn't final but right now it will using a 288 cam we already have. I've thoughts about maybe a 292 Schrick or 284/292 Elgin. We'll see what can squeak out of the 288 TEP cam first since I'm used to it. Thing that I don't like is not being able to change overlap degreeing the cam(SOHC). See it's ground into the cam profile. With DOHC you can tweak on it till find a very sweet spot using both cams to change the VE curve for what kind of power band you want. A SOHC engine it's dial both in/ex advanced or both retarded (think Chevy LS) to just move the entire band. Retard for more topend power, Advance for more midrange and less topend. Checking your valve clearance of course to make sure no contact will occur. Guys that dial cams may already know this stuff. It's something I did a lot on the M3 build due to outside of Schricks specs that actually worked better. See a stroker motor with longer rods has more piston dwell time at TDC and you can take advantage of just a little more cylinder fill. Even with Schrick cams I feel I dialed them much better than a cam card by trial and error. Proud to say this actually helped a few other S14 guys on their builds also. I probably re-timed those cams over 2 dozen times testing.

    Sidebar on the RaceTep turbo cam. I remember some use to argue if it helped cause we didn't have turbos like today. Also no real data on cams or setups back then. Well my guess is the "split" (LSA)profile is retarding the exhaust lobes more than other cams(closer to TDC) which makes the turbo spool faster due to earlier scavenging of the exhaust (early open). See DSM turbo guys do this on DOHC motors. Just old school brain storming in the garage while cleaning up this tear down mess.


    DSC06448.jpg
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    Great progress! Also just a helpful hint, remember (and you might have found this on your 2.7 S14 from how it sounds) but the wildness of a cam is diminished with the introduction of more displacement on a given unit. For example, a 304 schrick on an M10 at 1990cc will make max power much higher in the rpm range than say the 2300cc SOHC you're planning on building.

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119827

    Heres a great thread from a british M10 guy who played around with a 2.5L M10 for a long time. You'll see the power and torque band and be as surprised as I am. Nothing against an S14 in terms of hp/L once modified, but its still very impressive.

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...101237&page=15
    "The most important thing is balance." - KT

  22. #47
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    SF
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    Nice build, will definitely be following along.

    OLD MAN, I'd like to check out your track e21 if you're ever in any of the norcal-ish tracks.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    NC
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    Quote Originally Posted by FranzE21 View Post
    Great progress! Also just a helpful hint, remember (and you might have found this on your 2.7 S14 from how it sounds) but the wildness of a cam is diminished with the introduction of more displacement on a given unit. For example, a 304 schrick on an M10 at 1990cc will make max power much higher in the rpm range than say the 2300cc SOHC you're planning on building.

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119827

    Heres a great thread from a british M10 guy who played around with a 2.5L M10 for a long time. You'll see the power and torque band and be as surprised as I am. Nothing against an S14 in terms of hp/L once modified, but its still very impressive.

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...101237&page=15
    Hey Franz, yes that's one of the selling points John always made of the stroke kit. It gets on the cam 500+rpm earlier depending on which set. In my case I found could widen the overlap even further and literally make it pull from low revs not thought possible. But there was always a sacrifice somewhere else if too wide. So made the power as broad as it liked then just moved it till could reach redline the fastest. In a nut shell.
    My CF DTM airbox is also the long runner version at 18cm which allows even more of the widest power band. Nice thread links!

    Yes a larger motor can always have more cam on top and be civil. When ordered the crankshaft John and I talked a lot on piston sets. He made avail the ones I wanted both agreeing the smallest cam set anyone should run with the combo to be the Schrick 292/284. Due to the fact of what you mention it will still be drive able unlike the 2.3 where it gets peaky. Part of the bad wrap in my opinion was Schricks recommended cam timing. For a 2.7 they could be retarded more to act larger which I later found was true in my tests. I couldn't afford the next step up for my setup at the time of the build so stayed with Schrick 292/284. The Schrick 284 is about the max lift really want on the exhaust side just due to over scavenging with the timing I run using larger ones. The next step above for an S14 would be Motorsport cams which are NLA(being re made in Germany by John on S14power though); the Rallye 312/292 combo and all the hardware to support them. They are very very wide lobe ramps requiring the MS springs which also required shim under bucket plus longer valves to work without binding. But the power band is about the widest can go. More than any Schrick combo's even the race 320/308 setup. The 292 rallye cam is for exhaust side only; has a lower lift than expected to not over scavenge. The 312 intake rallye cam is the 2nd largest MS cam next to the 324. Anyways maybe one day if I retire and John still has a set I'll make my way there.

    Anyways with the S14 setup I run.
    I found during timing and degreeing tests that one combo was so good on the setup I dub'd it a hillclimb/rally timing combo. The power band is not 4cyl like at all, but more like a V8 if could believe that. Off idle was silly and midrange was so good if changed gears it would induce wheel spin there on 235/40/17 nitto NT01 tires. That's also when I started to notice the stock clutch wasn't happy . There would be a flat spot in the power band there it was actually slipping. It sacrificed maybe the last 1500 or so rpm near redline though as power peaked just a bit too early for my taste on open track. Needed a longer legged timing setting. For low speed tight courses it was addicting explosive fun. A guy I helped and gave him the timing info used it to setup his 2.7 S14 in mountains of Switzerland. He raves about how much driveability it has for a 4 cyl to power mid corner up hills.

    Anyways it was a longer process to tweak and re-tweak all the time. Sometimes going backwards having a worse setting. Waiting for the motor to cool a bit and re-time them. But in the end learned a lot that most never get time to do. Posted in length on s14power my experience with it and what it felt like to drive just about each time I changed it. One degree matters.

    I always forget to mention the M3 runs 93 pump gas on the combo.

    I'm rambling and need to get back to work
    Last edited by autox320; 08-17-2016 at 12:13 PM.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    2,126
    My Cars
    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    Not much going on this weekend. My buddy was coming to visit from out of town. But he drove a chump car event at VIR last weekend and got carbon monoxide poisoning from a leaking exhaust. Luckily not hospitalized but his arms and legs went numb at the wheel . He doesn't feel so well to drive this far He'll be ok but scary shit.

    Well after coffee this morning the car made it from the resting spot in the driveway to the carport area in front of the shop. Used Dad's tractor to move it around today in the rain. Then pulled the rest of the drivetrain out.
    So more 320is time I guess. Rounded up Dad in the afternoon. More elbow grease and lots of beer. Meh doing another round of aircraft stripper tonight and going to powerwash it again tomorrow. The underside needs some love too before it can make it into the shop next month or so.

    Rainy but never gets old looking at green. After the desert I missed color.
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    The M40Duces, and XTree sporty
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    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    NC
    Posts
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    My Cars
    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    Round three time to suit up again before bed time. Hop Hunter will help.
    DSC06466.JPG
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

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