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Thread: S54 ---> Hellrot E36 328I

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimerok View Post
    If you look under the cap you'll see a number there. This number represents system pressure that this cap creates in kPa. If you're using e36 cap then it is most likely 200 or 220 cap. Can't remember exactly

    In any case, I think what's happening is when you fill an empty system, you'll have significant amount of air trapped and it can't generate enough of cap's rated preassure to escape into the tank. That's why if you let your engine cycle through couple of thermostat openings with open cap, all that air should escape. This is the procedure to follow on most pressurized tanks. No need for any additional bleed valves as long as your tank cap is the highest point.
    i understand, I think the car was on stands when I filled it which raised the rad to the high point. My mistake. The cap should be the highest point when car is on the ground. I also only did it once, again my mistake. I'm heading over in a bit. Will update.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gpeterson View Post
    RPM, temp, CEL, and other things are fed to the cluster via CAN on the Z3 S54 cluster, so those wouldn't work in your OBD1 car. If you just want the rings just get a S52 Z3 cluster, it doesn't use CAN.
    Good info

  2. #177
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    You guys were right, it needed a proper procedure done.

    Car flat, cap off tank, started it with defrost on half way. Car slowly warmed up, I worked the hoses and got rid of some air until thermostat opened, coolant began to flow from the tube as it should more bubbles here and there. Steam was coming out ( The garage was about 25° ) and it actually began to over flow because I think I over filled. Anyway, I shut it off and removed some excess coolant and put a vented bottle on overflow hose down low to catch any dispensed.

    Let eta the car cool and did it again, cooled once more and did it a third time and went for a drive. The hose is as it should be now. Coasting and moving the engine was cooling to the first dot? sitting still with defroster, dead middle and moving slowly with light to mid load as in 10-15 mph up a steep hill, it would get alittle passed half if I didnt get some air through it by driving faster. I don't have a fan clutch on the car now, Aux only, so I def need a spal in there. All in all, pleased with results, thanks again!

    when I left I grabbed my round diagnostic connector from the wiring bin, going to pin it out and see where it all goes. Any info appreciated
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 12-20-2016 at 08:09 PM.

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpeterson View Post
    RPM, temp, CEL, and other things are fed to the cluster via CAN on the Z3 S54 cluster, so those wouldn't work in your OBD1 car. If you just want the rings just get a S52 Z3 cluster, it doesn't use CAN.
    Based on NCS Dummy, it seems like all of that can be configured to work without CAN. I don't know if the pins are the same or even still connected, but at least software wise it seems like the framework is there.

  4. #179
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    After work (and at work haha) I started looking into this D100 Plug. I guess the reason I over looked it is because I used andrews harness and he dealt with the X60004 plug.

    New plan is to install the Diagnostic round plug in my second cup holder which I never use. I excel mapped it out, then did it with a picture and then did it with a routing map. Can anyone smarter than me comment on whether this will or will not function as I intend.

    On the MSS54 DME it looks like only 3 pins, X60004 1, 17 and 32 are needed.
    X60004 pin1 is Alt charge signal and goes to pin 25 on X20
    X60004 pin 17 is RPM Signal to diagnostic plug PIN 20 on X20
    X60004 Pin 32 is TDX KBus line to Pin 4 of the X6031 (Which I already have run) and ends up at PIN 7 on OBD2 connector.

    Last pic is the "map" haha this all look like it'll work okay? ALSO what the hell are pin 17 and 18 on the diagnostic (D100) connector? ETM says they went between the E36 DME and the Trans control unit (Auto tranny??)...I have neither of those anymore?



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    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 12-21-2016 at 11:06 PM.

  5. #180
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    Ok I think I figured out PIN 17 of the D100 diagnostic 20pin connect.

    At the moment my car is wired like this :
    X60004 PIN32 --> X6031 PIN4 --> D110 OBDii connect PIN7

    After the diag plug is installed, it will go like this:
    X60004 PIN32 --> D100 diagnostic PIN17. (The cap of the diagnostic port bridges pins 17 and 2 together) so from there...
    D100 diagnostic PIN2 --> X6031 PIN4 --> D110 OBDii connect PIN7.

    The cap also bridges pins 14 15 and 20. I'll look at my planned connects to make sure they can all accept constant B+ correctly. Those details will be posted when I figure it out.

    edit - looked it all over, it should work.

    D100 PIN 15--> X16 PIN11 ( X16 PIN11 is not used on the S54 Z3M cluster per Gpetersons doc, but it still connects to all the body RDX modules so you catch it in the body side wiring.

    D100 PIN 20--> X16 PIN12 should access all TXD modules.

    Gary, any reason the X16 PIN 11 is not hooked up to the Z3M cluster? The 2000-2002 Z3M ETM shows it was used the same way as the E36. Did I miss something? Is it because there are different RXD modules between the years? Thanks!
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 12-22-2016 at 01:52 PM.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by PITT M3 RR View Post
    Gary, any reason the X16 PIN 11 is not hooked up to the Z3M cluster? The 2000-2002 Z3M ETM shows it was used the same way as the E36. Did I miss something? Is it because there are different RXD modules between the years? Thanks!
    This says it is not connected - http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/20...g%20Manual.pdf

    I can verify it isn't necessary, INPA can communicate with the Z3 CAN cluster using just the K line. All other E36 clusters I've seen require K & L with an ADS interface.
    S54 swap DME flashing - $100
    S54 swap CAN interface board (for proper A/C & check engine light) - $275
    e36 SAP sim/secondary air pump simulator:
    $75 - standard or $170 - plug & play
    e36 post-cat O2 sims: $115 shipped, plug & play

  7. #182
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    I'm not very observant. I went off this illustration of how to use the etm...figures it's the X16P11 to data link. Worst example they could have used hahah I should have looked harder.



    - - - Updated - - -

    This is the final of how I am going to wire it up. The grey wires coming off the black are other options for a source. For instance, instead of running PIN1 to the X20 and then back to the cluster, I can just go directly to the cluster. Ill post results after trouble shooting



    EDIT ...THE BLUE WIRE IN THE DIAGRAM GOES TO X17 PIN 6...
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 09-15-2017 at 02:55 PM.

  8. #183
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    Ok so I went ahead and installed the diagnostic plug. Decided to place it in the kick panel near the obd2 plug. I switched a few things from the diagram above.

    D100 Pin 16 I ran to the ignition wire that is HOT in RUN and START only. Because I grabbed it under the dash BEFORE it is fused, I added a 10A inline fuse to be safe.

    All connections were mechanical then Soldered and wrapped. I need to order an ADS interface to test communication.

    ">

    I hooked up INPA the other day and checked error memory, I had 17 codes stored. I photo'd them and today I cleared them and re-read. Only one error re-emerged. Says:

    S54 Main relay for supply voltage.
    0010 short circuit to ground or value to small.
    error present
    static error

    Can anyone chime in on that, could it be the distance I ran the wiring? Footage drop maybe? car starts and runs fine.
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    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 12-27-2016 at 11:41 PM.

  9. #184
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    Update, I realize I missed something during the wiring.

    Since up and running, Ive had a hidden code for Main relay voltage supply. It appeared as if i was seeing 5V at the DME. what I did was overlook the B+ tower connections.

    The left/upper 3 are larger than the lower / right 2. The left three bring power from the (#1) battery (70MM^2) cable and split it for the (#2) starter/alt (25mm^2 to 16mm^2) and the other (#3) goes 10mm^2 to the fuse box B+.

    The lower right brings power from the battery by a 6mm^2, 80A fused line. That then power the DME, main relay, injection relay, diagnostic port ONLY. It's a separate source.

    I had had my DME being powered by the bigger B+ terminal to X60001
    pin 7 and the relays to fuses power came from the B+ at the fuse box. So basically the power wiring was undersized and had too many current Amps being pulled. I've taken the wiring out and am dedication the DME power as it should have been and also upping the gauge for the current flow needed for the further distance. NBD!

    Also adding in the sport button light, Gary sent me a post from grass roots moor sports. The x17 pin 8 can get this signal from the X60004 pin 16.

    that's it for now. The remedy will either be 8AWG dedicated power to DME stuff OR move fuse pack BACK to DME aide and figure a mounting solution once again!!

    Also ordered NRG steering hub and ADS interface.
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 01-01-2017 at 06:17 PM.

  10. #185
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    Well I moved all of the stuff back to the left, soldered the connections and voltage tested / resistance tested all the connections. It all appeared fine. Started the car, no issue as always, ran fine without the airbox, but it STILL threw the Voltage for main relay immediately!!? I re- did all of the work I had done originally for no reason. I am beginning to think I am chasing a gremlin and the DME may have something going on inside. I took all the wiring apart AGAIN and Re-Re-did it in case I overlooked something... started the car and got the same code.

    INPA says 5V at sensor 1 (?) Im not sure where sensor one is. If I clear it, it comes right back immediately. I know the CEL is working because the car threw the codes for HFM and AIT sensor (no air box on). I used INPA to clear the codes and the light went out, but the damn voltage one came right back, though it doesn't throw a CEL. I have 14.00V at the battery with car running and between 13.7V and 13.9V on all of the relay / fuse connections. I also tested the resistance of the wiring for the winding ground to the relay and it checked out.

    What I did notice is INPA shows my Battery voltage pegged at 14V, no fluctuation at all. I found that weird as the other values bounced around at least a minimal amount with their readings.

    I ordered an E46M trans harness from ebay for 45 bucks. I am going to plug that in when it gets here and test the car in INPA again to see if somehow I did something when wiring this stuff. If It still throws the code with the OEM harness I may look into grabbing another dme and flashing my .BIN to it to test.

    Any suggestions on something I may have over looked? I'm assuming the DME gets voltage from the blue wire on the ALT plug and then relays that info to the OBD2 port via the pin 2 and 17 connections to OBD plug. Does that sound right?
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 01-06-2017 at 12:28 AM.

  11. #186
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    Update: It appears as if INPA error 54 is the same as OBD code 1231. 1231 is much more common among the forum searches. It ALSO appears that the "verbiage" of the code isn't exactly what it is. It does not mean the problem is specific to the main relay exactly. It means that the charging system is not operating as it should be and the voltage supply FOR the main relay is out of whack.

    As with all the hurdles with the swap, you become an expert for a short time as you work to resolve the problem. Anyway, I have read that the voltage regulator has resolved most of the cases people have asked about. Being that I have relocated and triple checked the wiring, the car starts, runs, idles and putts around town fine...and since its a $34 dollar part, I just ordered one. It can't hurt since my alternator was said to have about 110K miles.

    Reading all this new found 1231 code stuff. I do recall the sucking air pump activating and the idle stumbling. There is alot more info of when the regulator operates above 1K rpm etc and testing the voltage at a load vs at idle. Either way, Ill be installing it, testing and if still bad, taking the whole alt for a test at autozone to see how it performs. May take the battery as well.

  12. #187
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    I do find this interesting, as their regulators seems to go bad on the S54 alternators rather commonly. I've been looking for any other alternative before buttoning mine all up, but not seeing too much.

    Awesome info though, I'm still waiting on starting my wiring since body shop is taking forever.

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by SneauxM3 View Post
    I do find this interesting, as their regulators seems to go bad on the S54 alternators rather commonly. I've been looking for any other alternative before buttoning mine all up, but not seeing too much.

    Awesome info though, I'm still waiting on starting my wiring since body shop is taking forever.
    Awesome man, now that I have done it about 5 times It is really not that bad. Once I correct this problem, I and going to move the relays and fuse pack back to the fuse box where I originally had them. I like that much more since its cleaner and leaves more room near the expansion tank. Its not necessary, but whatever.

    As for the S54 alternators, I ordered the Bosch regulator but I'm now second guessing myself as to the make of mine. Valeo or bosch. I am going to head over today and pull the alt. As for removal, once the airbox is out it should be no issue at all to have it off and on. the oil lines may make it tight, but nothing anyone cant handle.

    Lastly the battery in my car is a BMW battery and I am really not sure how old it is. I am wondering if its not performing as it should be. I may take it up to autozone as well to be put on the machine. Ill post some photos of the alt tear down and regulator measurement when I get to it.

    also as a check list I:
    Relocated / soldered all relay and fuse connections: Car runs but displaysfault
    Voltage tested bat to relay,relay to source: All checks out, but displaysfault. (realized that I did not have a load on the alt, will retest)
    I have ordered a new trans harness: WILL INSTALL AND REPORT BACK
    Ordered new voltage regulator: WILL REPORT BACK
    Will check all heavy grounds in the car: WILL REPORT BACK
    Check fusible link in bat cable:WILL REPORT BACK
    May ask someone to test my DME in their swap car to see how it reads: WILL REPORT BACK
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 01-07-2017 at 10:56 AM.

  14. #189
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    If you have BMW battery, they usually come with a little sight glass that shows you color representing status/life of your battery... You can use it as a reference, but they are not 100% accurate though.
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimerok View Post
    If you have BMW battery, they usually come with a little sight glass that shows you color representing status/life of your battery... You can use it as a reference, but they are not 100% accurate though.
    I didn't know that, Ill check ir for reference tomorrow. What I did do today though is take the alternator off. I jumped the gun with that bosch voltage regulator as I was right...I have a valero 120V unit. So, I am working with the seller to get it swapped for the correct valero one.

    Anyway, apparently the brushes on the VR are supposed to be 12 MM new and after use, allowed to be a minimum of 5 MM. You can see below that my positive brush is about 3MM and the Negative even lower. I am really hoping this was causing intermittent contact or even none on the neg brush which would cause my code. So, Below the brushes are springs, they push the brush out to contact the pole in the alt...at 3MM and lower my spring was 99.9% expanded resulting in close to no pressure on the brush. So now that I'll have a VR on the way and the alt opened up, I de-soldered the internal parts and tore it all down. I am replacing all the bearings and cleaning all the magnets and copper to new. After it'll basically be new/reman as all wear / contact parts are being replaced. There was a TON of gunk in there Im guessing from the SMG fluid that spilled when the car my motor came from rolled over.

    E46 M3 120V VALERO complete alternator is part #12317831436
    Voltage regulator for the VALERO 120V part # 12317551153
    Sealed bearing FAG 6202-2RSR-C3
    Sealed bearing FAG 6303-2RSR-C3

    Since the wiring is in place, I am going to leave it until I get this alt rebuilt and in place so I can test it out. Should be a few days for the parts to arrive.
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    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 01-08-2017 at 01:00 AM.

  16. #191
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    Big update.

    The code remains. I've determined its related to the flashing of the DME. I installed the new E46 power harness, jumped power to x60004 pin 26, rebuilt the alt, bench tested etc...it won't go away. i will be picking up another DME and flashing my info to it to see if that can resolve it. The good part is I've heard from a few others who got the error after flashing Same as I have and their car is not affected in any other way.

    The alternator went together nicely. It goes

    Front bearing into cover --> bearing backet/brace --> press stator into front bearing --> press rear bearing on --> install magnetic coil ring with clamps --> bolt rear half cover on --> solder 3 leads --> install VR --> rear plastic cover --> front pulley / DONE.

    I also added a new deflection pulley, car idles auietly now, no bearing rattle. It's puts out 14.19V and 14.09 under heavy load.

    From here I am going to re finalize the wiring and work on the DME issue apart from suspension, alignment. I also grabbed a vert underbody brace from eBay. I saw it in a powers thread and there was on on eBay for 75$.
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    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 01-16-2017 at 10:46 PM.

  17. #192
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    Car is back together, fuse pack and relays are back in the fuse box. This time I ordered 10-12AWG 5 pin connectors from performance connection. They worked great. Weather proof, and easy disconnect for future projects. This replaced the 2 terminal blocks under the expansion tank. So now that connection and wiring is safe in the DME hole. After finalizing everything, I went down and got the first tank of gas haha! put about 30 miles or so on the car and it feels GREAT. I'm still observing the bearing break in, but never the less, the car moves.



    Now that its operational, I am going to split direction with the DME stuff. Ill bench work a newer one and continue with the car on the current DME. I built this bench rig quickly yesterday. Works great...you can see it holds at 15V at 1A for flashing etc. This is the Spare Ms43 I have around to "Test" with.




    I took the car to autozone for a stardard obd scan...it showed no codes so I don't think the inpa error 54 is going to affect me anywhere.

    I also got a cross brace in from ebay. I saw the one M52Power posted in his S54 swap thread and liked the idea of it. Checked ebay and there happened to be one with BIN of $75.00 so I grabbed it. It is very light, and really reminds me of the unit the E46M uses. Ill be throwing that on today before the game.

    Forgot to add, I added a bulb for the sport light, ran a wire from the X60004 PIN 16 and tapped into the fusebox at F15 on the E36. That runs to the X17 Pin 8 which normally illuminates the forglight bulb on an E36. In the case of the Z3m cluster, the same location houses the Sport indicator. I hooked up and and got nothing. So I put the fuse back in for the foglights and got a cool sport light when I turned them on. Due to this I checked the voltage at the end of the X60004 Pin 16 wire. When I engage sport it changes voltage from .09v (Off) to 4.0V (On). I dont think thats enough juice to run the old cluster bulbs. Probably all that was needed to light the little LED in the sport button switch. I am going to test it to my ASC to see if it lights up and experiment with getting a 4V lef in the cluster for the indicator.
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 01-22-2017 at 03:32 PM.

  18. #193
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    Awesome to hear you're up an running and got a tank of gas . Oh BTW on the x-brace pan you'll need to drill a large hole for the S54 oil drain plug location. I haven't figured out exactly where yet (still S52 in car) but if you can, post up what you figure out. Check my thread for a pic installed.

  19. #194
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    There is no bearing break in. Heat cycle the motor a couple of times and let it eat.
    Dave
    '18 RAM 2500 Laramie Cummins
    '15 Pure White VW Touareg TDI
    ///'95 Avus M3 S54B32 Race car -- 2022 ProAutoSports PS1 Champion
    ///'72 Chamonix 2002 (Restoration project)

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by M52 POWER! View Post
    Awesome to hear you're up an running and got a tank of gas . Oh BTW on the x-brace pan you'll need to drill a large hole for the S54 oil drain plug location. I haven't figured out exactly where yet (still S52 in car) but if you can, post up what you figure out. Check my thread for a pic installed.
    Hey thanks, I noticed that about the drain plug. I may leave it and just remove for oil changes. I don't think it'll be often enough to be an issue. Every 5K should be fine. Yours cleaned up well!

    Quote Originally Posted by MPWRCPE View Post
    There is no bearing break in. Heat cycle the motor a couple of times and let it eat.
    I thought I'd read 1200 mi and an oil change before beating on it?! Wasn't that tis info? In any case, they've head cycled more than I can count and have about 12 hours idle / half throttle use. That Lucas assembly lube was good stuff.

    Forgot to add, here's a shot of the head shield I used over the accumulator. Being that the engine arms are E36, this needed moved and ended up closer to the headers.

    I am also going to tackle the alignment! I feel like it would be a skill or ability to have. Especially when messing with wheels and suspensions often. I have some PSS9's on hold for Wednesday. I can't wait to get those on. I loved the PSS10s I had on my E46M.

    ill be first using 4 jack stands and fishing line. Basically you run the lines parallel to wheels, measure a set distance from the center of the hubs then determine the hub offset between F and R. Make that adjustment and make sure nothing moves. Then From the Left and right of each rim measure to the string and the difference is where you need to make adjustments. We'll see if it works.
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  21. #196
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    There is nothing to break in for the rod bearings. They don't have a direct contact with crank.
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimerok View Post
    There is nothing to break in for the rod bearings. They don't have a direct contact with crank.
    TIS specifies 1200 miles before going over 5500RPM, but I agree that there isn't really a break in for rod bearings. I'll likely baby it for 500 miles, change the oil and then let'r rip!

  23. #198
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    The 1,200 mile break in is likely to be sure BMW (or whoever) didn't screw up when they installed the new bearings.

    Again, there is no break in with rod bearings other than heat cycling for the bolts.

    I babied mine for 3 heat cycles (in the same weekend), changed the oil filter and let it rip. She spins to 8K+ gloriously .
    Dave
    '18 RAM 2500 Laramie Cummins
    '15 Pure White VW Touareg TDI
    ///'95 Avus M3 S54B32 Race car -- 2022 ProAutoSports PS1 Champion
    ///'72 Chamonix 2002 (Restoration project)

  24. #199
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    Well good to know, I'll change the oil at 1200mi, but other wise have at it when I get to the garage haha

    Technical_Data_98_M3.jpg


    Looks like the wheel base is .6 wider in the rear for the alignment #s.

  25. #200
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    dude when can I see this thing

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