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Thread: S54 ---> Hellrot E36 328I

  1. #51
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    Be curious to see that as well, I was thinking of using the cluster now since have been seeing them pop up a bit. Not too bad of price new from dealer at 0 miles either

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastAlpine View Post
    Damn man, love the work into this! I am starting my swap this week and will be referencing this thread and probably reaching out with any questions I have.



    No problem - I'll help how ever I can, just know that apart from the mechanical stuff, I am also leaning heavily on some very smart dudes from around the US who have pioneered this swap. They've put the leg work in so they get the credit! My plan is to pull all that info together and document it in a final, "very laymen - how I did it explanation."


    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i View Post
    Ah, I see where you were coming from. We did code my cluster in with the swap VIN, but I don't know whether that was for CA compliance or whether it was needed. It worked just fine uncoded while we were chasing down other issues too. Tamper dot only appeared when we started playing with the mileage to figure out how to display chassis miles.

    Regarding cluster wiring, I didn't de-pin any of the connectors for the unused wires, I just left them there. The only reason I can think of that I would've depinned would be if the Z3M cluster expected a different input signal from E36 (OBD1 in my case) cluster.

    It's kinda amusing now because setting cruise control turns on/off the Z3M TPMS bulb, since the indicator is in the same place.



    Thanks for the info, personally, I wouldn't mind if the cluster didn't match frame / motor for a while. What I don't know is if at inspection time I'll get shit for the roll back. We are no where near CA strict, but PA isn't a walk in the park either. My main hurdle will be first start up, then I'll be happy to work out the kinks. Do you recall if you cluster was coded on a bench or while in the vehicle!?


    Lastly, per GPeterson, there are a few to eliminate, but that may be an OBD2 aspect - either way, I'm following that direction exactly.


    Quote Originally Posted by gpeterson View Post
    Your harness will need to run CANH and CANL from MSS54 x60004 to the cluster. The other two are A/C signals, I'll document when I can.



    That documentation would be great. From what I have found while reviewing Hackentt's build is the MSS54 X60004 slot is the 4th connector from the left (40 pin).


    Can bus HIGH should be the X60004 Pin 36 and it should be wired to the S54 Z3M X16 Pin 6


    Can bus LOW should be the X60004 Pin 37 and it should be wired to the S54 Z3M X16 Pin 7


    I won't mind working out A/C last, but for info sake I'd like to have it at least figured out on paper. I'm seeing the X60004 Pin 29 as the A/C compressor relay control. Is this one of the two wires needing run to the cluster X271 location? And if so, is it run to X271 pin 7 (A/C Activation) or X271 Pin 6 (A/C on signal). Last question if it does go to one of those, what is the source of the other? Thanks! If you'd rather I wait for your documentation of the wiring, just say the word. No rush!


    Quote Originally Posted by SneauxM3 View Post
    Be curious to see that as well, I was thinking of using the cluster now since have been seeing them pop up a bit. Not too bad of price new from dealer at 0 miles either



    I'll keep you posted here! Where have you seen them pop up!? I do believe the regular Z3 clusters are CAN also, but the rev limit is obviously the handicap with those. Still though, it's a fitting option to hold you over until you can locate a Z3M unit.





  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by PITT M3 RR View Post

    That documentation would be great. From what I have found while reviewing Hackentt's build is the MSS54 X60004 slot is the 4th connector from the left (40 pin).

    Can bus HIGH should be the X60004 Pin 36 and it should be wired to the S54 Z3M X16 Pin 6

    Can bus LOW should be the X60004 Pin 37 and it should be wired to the S54 Z3M X16 Pin 7

    I won't mind working out A/C last, but for info sake I'd like to have it at least figured out on paper. I'm seeing the X60004 Pin 29 as the A/C compressor relay control. Is this one of the two wires needing run to the cluster X271 location? And if so, is it run to X271 pin 7 (A/C Activation) or X271 Pin 6 (A/C on signal). Last question if it does go to one of those, what is the source of the other? Thanks! If you'd rather I wait for your documentation of the wiring, just say the word. No rush!
    The CAN part is correct.

    On the E36 the DME receives 2 signals fro the IHKA (snowflake button and evap temp/pressure switch). It uses these signals and other conditions (RPM, WOT) to decide if the A/C compressor relay should be energized:

    Screen Shot 2016-09-22 at 6.47.28 AM.pngScreen Shot 2016-09-22 at 6.48.44 AM copy.png


    MSS54 does exactly the same thing but receives those signals over the CAN bus (via the cluster or my CAN board). For a CAN cluster you need to wire this:

    -pin 5 of your existing A/C relay to MSS54 x60004 pin 29 (A/C output)
    -pin 10 of IHKA x1527 to cluster x271 pin 6 (snowflake input)
    -pin 4 of your A/C pressure switch to cluster x271 pin 7 (temp/pressure input)
    S54 swap DME flashing - $100
    S54 swap CAN interface board (for proper A/C & check engine light) - $275
    e36 SAP sim/secondary air pump simulator:
    $75 - standard or $170 - plug & play
    e36 post-cat O2 sims: $115 shipped, plug & play

  4. #54
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    All this computer talk is soooo Chinese to me, I don't understand any of it
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  5. #55
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    Little update, harness arrived, but it's from Andrew even though I ordered it from Kassel 2 months ago. Whatever, I may have over paid, but I am just happy to have something in hand. I'll need to add the Can wiring in from the X60004, no big deal, just disappointed in how this all turned out. I should have ordered from Andrew directly and given him my build specs. Clearly they were not passed on from
    Kassel to him. As for Andrews work, the harness is damn well made, had good directions and nice labels.


    My -An fittings Are in along with 10 feet of SS braided line.

    also ordered the EKP relay from Amazon and an E30 expansion tank and a few cooling gaskets from ECS.

  6. #56
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    No more BMWs :(
    That is the exact reason I went with Andrew and not Kassel. I knew that harness would become a nightmare of a wait from them.


    -Nick


  7. #57
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    I hear you. Wish I knew. I drove three hours to him on a Sunday - we bs'd for a few hours, I thought forsure it would all be smooth. I was told 2 weeks. 9 later and here I am. Basically I think he lied saying he knew how, tried to build it, failed and eventually just placed an order to Andrew with my money while he pocketed the rest.

  8. #58
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    ouch.. that blows.. damn middle men...

    Hey did you get the Kassel fuel pump kit? Also what is the EKP relay?
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  9. #59
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    I did get the Kassel fuel pump kit, which again is think is another individuals product. It's a walbro 255 with a techna motorsports machined sleeve I'm pretty sure, gotta look at my old pics. It was handed to me when I met him so no wait on that.

    EKP is the US fuel pump relay that is needed. I don't know the magic behind it, but it's necessary. Don't use the guy on Amazon, he just wrote me and said he needed to refund me as it's not available. I'll go to dealer I guess.

    Anyways today, got the front end on and began adding some wiring to the car. I mounted the Mss54 inside the original E46 housing and then modified that to sit in the E36 location. Then connected the adapter harness roughly. I had to un pin the pedal from the x60004 so it could be run through the original pedal slot in the firewall, same with the sport button (mines coded to sport always for some reason).

    M my O2 harness is an SMG so I have some wiring I need to remove. I'll do that after the fact as I don't want to mess anything up before first start. It's organized chaos at the moment. I'll be buying a ton of marine crimps and proper wiring to clean it all up.

    - - - Updated - - -

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  10. #60
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    if thats the same relay andrew is talking about on rev, then i ordered that from AZautohaus it was $33 got it in 2 days
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 Shifty View Post
    if thats the same relay andrew is talking about on rev, then i ordered that from AZautohaus it was $33 got it in 2 days
    Good look man, just ordered one. Thanks! Let me know if you need anything.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PITT M3 RR View Post
    EKP is the US fuel pump relay that is needed. I don't know the magic behind it, but it's necessary.
    It isn't actually necessary. I ran mine for a year on a regular relay, it just connects to a different pin and will throw a harmless code unless you flash non-US software.
    S54 swap DME flashing - $100
    S54 swap CAN interface board (for proper A/C & check engine light) - $275
    e36 SAP sim/secondary air pump simulator:
    $75 - standard or $170 - plug & play
    e36 post-cat O2 sims: $115 shipped, plug & play

  13. #63
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    2005 M3 & 2004 330i
    Quote Originally Posted by gpeterson View Post
    It isn't actually necessary. I ran mine for a year on a regular relay, it just connects to a different pin and will throw a harmless code unless you flash non-US software.
    In my experience it doesn't even throw the code, at least with sufficiently new software.

  14. #64
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    That's good info. I had already ordered the relay so no harm done either way. I keep realizing little things I need here and there. Ordered E30 coolant level sensor, ECS SAP block off.

    Also got into the O2 harness that came with my SMG drop out. The SMG cars have a DME for that specific function as well. There are addition plugs on the harness that I didn't need, and as cluttered as it was, I felt it best to remove them.

    Stripping the the harness really opens the view of how it works. You basically work backward from the SMG connectors and trace where they tie into the harness. Aside from grounds and power supply - there was CAN to DME, 1 wire power pin to power pin, salmon relay and the SMG 40A fuse.

    Only hiccup I ran into was a 3 pin connector what would have been on the SMG trans. From it there was a switched power, black to pin 11 of the SMG 40pin connector and a brown wire to X60002 pin20. Pin 20 is listed as gear select recognition on both SMG and 6 Speed. At the moment I'm assuming that on the 6 speed the black wire is not present making the connector a 2 pin in the 6 speed application. And I went further and removed it from the harness all together As there will be no plug on my ZF to accept the connection anyway. It's all marked for reinstall if necessary. I guess I'll find out on first start.

    I can go further into this if anyone needs. Also if anyone has an SMGII DME pin out please post up! I'd like specifics on pin 11 of the 40pin connector. Thanks!!




    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 10-02-2016 at 07:48 PM.

  15. #65
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    She cranks!!! Starts!!...then dies immediately dammit.

    Anyone have any ideas? The set up as it sits is.

    S54 / DME with all wiring hooked up.

    - No air box / intake or HFM (vacuum lines are open free)
    - No belt
    - e36 cluster still installed

    when it fires it's a solid start, full on running, then cuts out. I'm going to install air box and run out for a belt, but in the mean time. Any suggestions are appreciated.
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    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 10-06-2016 at 06:33 PM.

  16. #66
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    Update - I contacted Kassel, explained the issue and he thought it sounded EWS related. I was skeptical as I was under the impression ews was deleted from my DME. Anyway, Jim spent about an hour and half with me over text problem solving. I'm actually very impressed with the service. He stated that I could express the DME to him to be checked and he would cover cost or if I had a cable, I could pull the BIN and email it to him. Luckily I had a new vagcom FTDL cable I purchased while ago. He walked me through BMWflash on my sisters Mac, I pulled the partial bin and sent it. He replied that EWS was on!! He apologized, rewrote the BIN and emailed it to me. I uploaded it with direction and started the car...apparently there was a miscommunication regarding the harness as well, long story short, as I stated earlier I ended up with an Andrew harness. I spoke with Andrew and he stated the the order was placed when I originally made mine...it was just a busy month etc...

    Anyway, here's a video of first start!
    <a href="https://youtu.be/q-tQKd0ZRyI" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 12-09-2017 at 07:56 PM.

  17. #67
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    Wow congrats man! Must feel really good to see that
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  18. #68
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    Mazda 3
    Damn you're making pretty quick progress on this swap. Was the shaky idle due to the lack of intake and everything else?

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 Shifty View Post
    Wow congrats man! Must feel really good to see that
    Thanks bud, it really does! I had never heard the motor run so I was 100% sure it was on the up and up. It looked very healthy on tear down. Just nerves I guess. Lots of money in already.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSxDreamer View Post
    Damn you're making pretty quick progress on this swap. Was the shaky idle due to the lack of intake and everything else?
    Yup! The idle was sporadic due to no vacuum system, HFM, 02 sensors Wernt hooked etc. it was bare bones. Oil only in motor.

    Started to get into the permanent wiring. Gutted my E36 harness carefully. All wires that ran unimpeded the length of the fire wall I allowed remain. The extension of the e46 harness will be custom. If you plan to go this route, document everything pre and post junction, know the pin outs and have the etm on hand.

    The knock sensors and CPS are shielded cord - in order to extend them you need to strip the outer layer, fold shielding, join sensor wiring and the re apply shielding from new and old wiring. The E46 sensor are 2 wire, E36, 3. I'll post more on this as I go.
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    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 10-08-2016 at 12:01 AM.

  20. #70
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    So quick update: I have successfully, physically, extended the harness. If you're reading this, it can be done. However, I have also ordered the Z3M harness. 1, because the time spent cutting, wiring, pinning, labeling etc SUCKS. Its not worth the $460 you save for a Z3M harness. 2nd, though I have extended the harness. I found that there are multiple different AWG's used in the harness. At first I though each was 22AWG, but soon found out that they size ranges per signal. Take the injector pulse signal wiring...it appears to be 18AWG etc... it is very time consuming to pick those wires apart for the remaining 20, 22's, not to mention I found this out about half way through when I thought I was going cross eyed. I proceeded correctly from there and will need to check about 11 connections made prior.

    I have set this aside and will have it completed once the car is done, then I can document it as an option for those who would rather spend the time than save the $460.00.

    Money spent wise here is an updated list

    - S54
    - swap harness
    - dme
    - tune
    - 255 walbro w techna sleeve
    - Viton o ring for CPV
    - coolant pipe w / sensor thread
    - 6 speed intake mani-----------------------------------$5200
    - FPR----------------------------------------------------$70
    - Pedal---------------------------------------------------$30
    - Wpc bearing ------------------------------------------$300
    - Rod bolts ----------------------------------------------$96 (2 sets)
    - Misc Seals, gaskets, orings -----------------------------$200
    - S54 Z3M cluster --------------------------------------$300
    - Oil cooler AN fitting adapter-----------------------------$30
    - N54 studs----------------------------------------------$36
    - Ebay headers (used)-----------------------------------$110
    - E46 M3 fuel line (used Ebay)---------------------------$30.00
    - Derale 51610 fluid cooler (summit)--------------------.$109.00
    - VSK4 weisco shims (summit)........---------........-----...$49.00
    - feeler gauges (autozone)........................................ ..$8.99
    - BMW fuel tank/pump seal ......................,,.................$9.98
    - All those seals and gaskets pictured..........................$172.00
    - air shut off valve--------------------------------------$29.00
    - crank damper bolts------------------------------------$30.00
    - angle torque gauge-----------------------------------$12.00
    - injector orings----------------------------------------$15.00
    -BMW Shim tool-----------------------------------------$30.00
    -2.28, 2.24 valve shim refill------------------------------$30.00
    -clutch alignment tool-----------------------------------$8.00
    -exhaust header nuts-----------------------------------$18.00
    -Alt air shut off valve -----------------------------------$19.00 (used)
    - front fuel line------------------------------------------$35.00
    -2 2" v SS band clamps---------------------------------$39.00
    -Rally road SS pivot pin---------------------------------$30.00
    -CLutch fork release spring-------------------------------$9.00
    -E36 coolant temp sensor to fill techna adapter slot------$13.00
    -2 45 degree an fittings---------------------------------$16.00
    -2 90 degree an fittings---------------------------------$15.00
    -10ft of 10aN braided steel oil line ----------------------$38.00
    -E30 Coolant tank--------------------------------------$90.00
    -EKP relay ---------------------------------------------$40.00
    -Coolant lever sensor E30-------------------------------$10.00
    -SAP block off plate -----------------------------------$14.00
    -S54 Z3m main engine harness--------------------------$460.00
    -heater hoses------------------------------------------$20.00
    -VAG COM cable ---------------------------------------$20.00
    Last edited by PITT M3 RR; 10-15-2016 at 10:04 AM.

  21. #71
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    FYI, The z3 m harness is now $501 at ECS , and $480 at FCP EURO

    what are you using for diadnostics? What software do we need to get? I have the bag on cable with chip in it
    98 Estoril ///M3 4/6
    S54 swap CSL

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 Shifty View Post
    FYI, The z3 m harness is now $501 at ECS , and $480 at FCP EURO

    what are you using for diadnostics? What software do we need to get? I have the bag on cable with chip in it
    Using my sisters mac, BMW Flash program was downloaded and the communication was done with my cable I posted above. Kassel emailed me the file. The original tuning of the ECU was done by them in house though, all I did above was re-upload it with the EWS switched off vs On. I did not personally read the BIN file.

    BMW Atlanta sells the Z3m Harness for $428.00! Came to $460.00 with taxes and shipping for me to my house. There were 5 in US when I ordered it, I supposed all the other 4 are still available. If you're going to use it, just get it haha I wanted to wait until that first start though, in case the motor blew up or something.

  23. #73
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    Z3m harness arrived this AM, identical minus the plug that needs swapped out and length obviously. I was hoping it would be more of a direct fit but it'll do. I say that because the extended section is really extended and bends when installed. Not to mention the harness sort of just floats there. I'll have to fab up some brackets.

    Anyway, I put a solid 8 hrs in...in that time I realized it is impossible to have all 5 DME plugs exit the E36 cover hole. Second I did not just want to shove a bundled mess of wires and relays in with the DME. After a lot of time messing around with it, I decided to modify the cover. X60001 and x60002 now drop from DME chamber and I added a second hole for the X60004 and x60005 to exit. CAN wires were run in theiir own loom aside the power supply. And the x60003 will exit as it Should from the correct spot. I'll be tapping into the X69 plug for CAN to harness connection. I chose blue for high and blue/black for low.



    -corrected alt/coolant plug for Andrews harness
    -mounted z3m harness
    -modified DME chamber cover
    -began to tighten up wiring

    at the moment it looks like it's going to tighten up well and protected. Everything's been taped or padded to ensure safety.

    - - - Updated - - -

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  24. #74
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    Few more photos
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by PITT M3 RR View Post
    Anyway, I put a solid 8 hrs in...in that time I realized it is impossible to have all 5 DME plugs exit the E36 cover hole.
    It really is possible but not easy. All of mine exit that way and run through the E36 rubber boot and plastic tray along the firewall.

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