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Thread: MK60 ABS Standalone info

  1. #1
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    MK60 ABS Standalone info

    Looking at putting the E46 M3 MK60 ABS system into an E36 M3.

    Parts:
    1x E46 M3 ABS Pump/Controller (see item A below for ideal P/N's)
    2x E46 M3 Brake Pressure Sensors P/N: 34521164458 (buy used MC with sensors in it) (*Z3 3.0i Booster fits the MC with sensors and works with E36 brake pedal)
    1x E46 M3 Integrated Accel/Yaw Sensor P/N: 34526764018
    1x Z3 3.0i Front Right Wheel Speed Sensor - P/N: 34526752690
    1x Z3 3.0i Front Left Wheel Speed Sensor - P/N: 34526752689
    2x E46 M3 Rear Wheel Speed Sensors - P/N: 34526752683
    4x Universal ABS Sensor Sockets - P/N: 61131392246
    1x Custom MK60 ABS Harness

    Optional:
    1x Z3 3.0i Upper Steering Column with Steering Angle Sensor (needed for DSC, but you'd also need a CAN ECU ie E46 ECU or stand alone).

    Info I've found (not sure how accurate)
    A) There are 3 versions of the ABS Pump/Controller with 2 different BMW Part Numbers but 3 different ATE numbers:
    1) BMW PN 282250, ATE PN 10.0960.0813.3, Standard E46 M3 but is reflashable to CSL (and maybe Motorsports or Custom)
    2) BMW PN 282250, ATE PN 10.0960.0818.3, Standard E46 M3 not flashable (most common)
    3) BMW PN 282420, ATE PN 10.0960.0817.3 M3 ZCP/CSL, flashable to Motorsports or custom (unobtainium)

    B) Everyone seems to "know a guy" who can flash the ZCP/CSL unit, but no one has come out and said they have had any actual experience with one of these guys or a flashed unit. Is this vaporware? Do these guys actually exist. Most importantly, anyone actually have PERSONAL experience getting their unit flashed?
    Does anyone have names of people I can follow up with to find out about flashing MK60 ABS.
    UPDATE: Neel Vasavada of Apex Speed used to but has since moved on to Bosch M4.
    Curt Jung of Jung Motorsports
    Eric Scheibe of Electron Speed
    Andrew at E30Zone.net
    hakentt-mss54 on M3Forums
    Volker VV on M3Forums (recommends Paul or Marko)


    C) The E46 M3 speed sensors can be modified to fit and work with E36. There are two types of E46 speed sensors, blue and grey. I hear only one type works well for the mod.
    1) Anyone know which version it is (I've seen conflicting reports). Got a part number for the correct sensors when doing the mod?
    2) What all needs to be done in order to get the speed sensors to fit/work?
    UPDATE: Blue connector sensors, see post#9 below for ideal part numbers and mod

    D) Apparently once the system is in place, it needs to be reprogrammed for the car. NCS Expert or INPA can do this apparently. I don't really know anything about either of these.
    1) Anyone have detailed info on the INPA cable, what is required to use it, and how it is used, etc?
    2) I see that you can buy a cheap INPA cable on eBay, but I believe it requires a special laptop or something. Why is that?
    3) What actually has to be programmed/done once installed?
    UPDATE: Check out these threads:
    Making sense of INPA, EDIABAS, NCSExpert, NCSDummies, DIS/GT1, EasyDIS, & Progman - BimmerFest
    BMW INPA Ediabas installation guide + software - BMWCoders
    DSC MK60 Module Replacement and Recode DIY - E46Zone (see step 11)
    Replacing a faulty ABS module - E46Fanatics
    Reprogram VIN, LWS in MK60
    MK60 programming parameters
    Disable ASC and MSR


    E) What else needs to be hooked up?
    1) Brake light switch?
    2) Fluid level indicator?
    3) ABS Light?


    Useful threads: (I'll number them and add new ones to bottom to make it easier to see when I've added a new thread)
    1. Teves Mk 60 as stand alone ABS - BimmerForums
    2. MK60 Part Number Info - M3Forum
    3. DIY 1995 M3 with an S54/Mk60, California Smog Legal - BimmerForums
    4. ABS on track / competition car? - PistonHeads
    5. E46 ABS into E36 - details wanted - BimmerForums
    6. Slightly Different MK60 ABS Questions - BimmerForums
    7. BMW Motorsports ABS Control Unit (real racing ABS!) - BimmerForums
    8. Anybody have an E46 M3 ABS "Motorsports Control Unit"? - BimmerForums
    9. MK20 vs MK60 pdf - BMWTech
    10. Replacing a faulty ABS module - E46Fanatics
    11. BMW INPA Ediabas installation guide + software - BMWCoders
    12. DSC MK60 Module Replacement and Recode DIY - E46Zone
    13. Making sense of INPA, EDIABAS, NCSExpert, NCSDummies, DIS/GT1, EasyDIS, & Progman - BimmerFest
    14. MK60 DSC thread - M3Forum
    15. BMW E46 MK60 ABS/DSC Retrofit kit - S14net
    16. Official E46 M3 ABS in E30 M3 thread - S14net
    17. BMW/Teves Mk60 ABS data to AiM loggers - RennList
    18. SQ6M with standalone MK60 ABS - ApexSpeed
    19. M-Track Mode retrofit
    20. Continental Teves ABS Presentation


    -Scott
    Last edited by sab0276; 10-03-2017 at 11:04 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    Looking at putting the E46 M3 MK60 ABS system into an E36 M3.

    Parts:
    1x E46 M3 ABS Pump/Controller
    2x E46 M3 Brake Pressure (buy used MC with sensors in it)
    1x E46 M3 Integrated Accel/Yaw Sensor
    1x E46 M3 Front Right Wheel Speed Sensor
    1x E46 M3 Front Left Wheel Speed Sensor
    2x E46 M3 Rear Wheel Speed Sensors
    1x Custom Harness
    I did this in my car, it works great! There is debate on whether you need the accel/yaw sensor if you're not running DSC, but my understanding is some of the ABS-only functions use its input.

    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    Info I've found (not sure how accurate)

    A) There are [url=http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showpost.php?p=1066884696&postcount=134=3 versions of the ABS Pump/Controller with 2 different BMW Part Numbers but 3 different ATE numbers[/url]:
    1) BMW PN 282250, ATE PN 10.0960.0813.3, Standard E46 M3 but is reflashable to CSL (and maybe Motorsports or Custom)
    2) BMW PN 282250, ATE PN 10.0960.0818.3, Standard E46 M3 not flashable (most common)
    3) BMW PN 282420, ATE PN 10.0960.0817.3 M3 ZCP/CSL, flashable to Motorsports or custom (unobtainum)

    B) Everyone seems to "know a guy" who can flash the ZCP/CSL unit, but no one has come out and said they have had any actual experience with one of these guys or a flashed unit. Is this vaporware? Do these guys actually exist. Most importantly, anyone actually have PERSONAL experience getting their unit flashed?
    Does anyone have names of people I can follow up with to find out about flashing MK60 ABS.
    I have option 1, the flashable one, but have not found any info on how to do it. Like you, I've heard that it is possible but that's it. My worry is sending a unit to a flasher and not noticing a difference after spending $many.


    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    C) The E46 M3 speed sensors can be modified to fit and work with E36. There are two types of E46 speed sensors, blue and grey. I hear only one type works well for the mod.
    1) Anyone know which version it is (I've seen conflicting reports). Got a part number for the correct sensors when doing the mod?
    2) What all needs to be done in order to get the speed sensors to fit/work?
    blue ones bolt directly in to the M3 stuff, at least they did on my 9/95. Electrically, the will connect to the chassis side once you remove the key-ing features of the chassis-side connector. Alternatively, you can de-pin the chassis connector and re-pin the blue connector, which is what I did eventually. Then it's entirely plug and play in the wheel well.

    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    D) Apparently once the system is in place, it needs to be reprogrammed for the car. NCS Expert or INPA can do this apparently. I don't really know anything about either of these.
    1) Anyone have detailed info on the INPA cable, what is required to use it, and how it is used, etc?
    2) I see that you can buy a cheap INPA cable on eBay, but I believe it requires a special laptop or something. Why is that?
    3) What actually has to be programmed/done once installed?
    I can't comment on this, the only coding I had to do was to align the yaw sensor module, dsc computer, and DME with the right VINs and such...and I had a coding experienced friend help with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    E) What else needs to be hooked up?
    1) Brake light switch?
    2) Fluid level indicator?
    3) ABS Light?
    I think those are all optional. I don't recall wiring my brake light switch into the DSC harness, but check my thread for the wiring schematic details. It's been a year since I dealt with the wiring. The ABS light would be good to hook up in case of faults.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i View Post
    blue ones bolt directly in to the M3 stuff, at least they did on my 9/95. Electrically, the will connect to the chassis side once you remove the key-ing features of the chassis-side connector. Alternatively, you can de-pin the chassis connector and re-pin the blue connector, which is what I did eventually. Then it's entirely plug and play in the wheel well.
    What does removing the key-ing feature mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i View Post
    I think those are all optional. I don't recall wiring my brake light switch into the DSC harness, but check my thread for the wiring schematic details. It's been a year since I dealt with the wiring. The ABS light would be good to hook up in case of faults.
    You used the late model Z3 steering column with Steering Angle Sensor. What part numbers are needed? I have to replace my upper steering column in my E36 M3, so might as well use this now and be able to add DSC later.


    Thanks!
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    What does removing the key-ing feature mean?
    If memory serves, there's a little piece/rib of plastic in the chassis-side connector that prevents plugging a blue into a grey. You can either cut this out, or using a pick tool, de-pin the chassis side connector and repin into a blue chassis side connector. This plastic rib acts as a key.


    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    You used the late model Z3 steering column with Steering Angle Sensor. What part numbers are needed? I have to replace my upper steering column in my E36 M3, so might as well use this now and be able to add DSC later.
    I did. I don't remember the part number though. it should be any non-M Z3 from the M54 generation when they used DSC Mk60, and I believe the same steering angle sensor as the E46.

    To be honest though, DSC is kinda pointless on a track only car. I did it so that I could pull steering angle data in through the canbus data loggers, and having working DSC was a nice bonus. I've left it on for a couple track sessions before, and it does work surprisingly well in an E36, but it isn't the fast way around the track. It is a pretty fun cheat mode for rainy/damp track days though.

    Why do you need to replace the upper column anyway? My takeoff one is available, should you not want to bother with the Z3 one.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

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  5. #5
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    Had an impact and there is a bind on left turns. Replaced everything but upper shaft. So figured would try that.
    I'd like DSC for same reason as you, data logging and use DSC in wet. DSC would be off 90% of the time.
    Can DSC be implemented with an S52? Or does it require drive by wire throttle (E46 or newer) or something in order to control engine power?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    Had an impact and there is a bind on left turns. Replaced everything but upper shaft. So figured would try that.
    I'd like DSC for same reason as you, data logging and use DSC in wet. DSC would be off 90% of the time.
    Can DSC be implemented with an S52? Or does it require drive by wire throttle (E46 or newer) or something in order to control engine power?
    Makes sense!

    I doubt DSC will work on an S52, for a couple reasons. You don't have a CAN connection to the DME, nor the dbw throttle, so the DSC's torque limiting commands won't go anywhere.

    I don't know either if DSC will, in absence of CANbus, use brake vectoring to act in absence of the DME cutting power. I believe it has the capability to do so from stability control standpoint, but I don't think it will do it without communication with the DME. There is info floating around online for how the Mk60 functions and the different levels of 'safety' fallbacks if/when systems fail. I have it on my home computer somewhere but some google should find it also.

    My gut feeling though would be that you can have ABS functioning and maybe brake vectoring with the steering angle sensor and yaw sensor, but probably not DSC.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

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    I'm running standalone ABS in my car E30. I think most all your questions have been well covered here. I will second that I've heard the DSC sensor is not required by may help with ABS only functions.

    With regards to full DSC it requires (as I understand it) an S54 DME because there's a lot of interplay between the ABS unit and the engine controller to make that work.

  8. #8
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    Obviously would not have engine torque reduction, but hoping for CBC, ADB, etc.

    Would be cool if you could program Select-High Regulation to work above 25mph (essentially never use Select-Low Regulation).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    C) The E46 M3 speed sensors can be modified to fit and work with E36. There are two types of E46 speed sensors, blue and grey. I hear only one type works well for the mod.
    1) Anyone know which version it is (I've seen conflicting reports). Got a part number for the correct sensors when doing the mod?
    2) What all needs to be done in order to get the speed sensors to fit/work?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i View Post
    blue ones bolt directly in to the M3 stuff, at least they did on my 9/95. Electrically, the will connect to the chassis side once you remove the key-ing features of the chassis-side connector. Alternatively, you can de-pin the chassis connector and re-pin the blue connector, which is what I did eventually. Then it's entirely plug and play in the wheel well.
    I thought I’d chime in on the wheel speed sensors since I just installed mine last night. I’m working on a full write up for my E36 M3 (build date 10/94) with a bit of fluff, but I’d like to get this out sooner than later since it seems to be a recurring question - I’ve asked it as well.

    I went a bit overboard and purchased new sensors to eliminate the potential problems of a used sensor. When I was looking for the front sensors I stuck to the E36/7 since both the E36 and Z3 knuckles are essentially the same.
    Front wheel speed sensors are from a late model Mk60 based Z3.

    - Front ABS Speed Sensor - Left: 34526752689
    - Front ABS Speed Sensor - Right: 34526752690

    Side by side comparison of the front:



    Rear wheel speed sensors are from an M3

    - Rear ABS Speed Sensor: 34526752683

    Side by side comparison of the rear:



    The chassis side connectors were to be a simple fix since you can buy a new socket that has a universal key way. Unfortunately one of my sockets broke while removing it and I failed to realize how simple it was to change the keyway to match the universal socket. I put together a few pictures to demonstrate the factory socket vs the replacement socket, the appropriate method for modifying the factory grey socket, and what it’ll look like when it’s complete.

    - ABS Sensor Socket - 61131392246

    The three pictures below are for reference and how I modified the front left grey socket to match the universal ABS socket:







    The two pictures below are of the rear left socket:

    Before



    After



    I’m not saying this is the correct way to do it, but it worked for me. I’ll add pictures later this weekend of the front socket installed.

    Update:

    Since I had most of Friday to think about how I was going to install - seal - the new socket I came up with simple solution.

    As you’ll see in the pictures you have a speed signal wire and a shield. Since we’re using the shield as a sensor ground I wanted to make sure I treated it like the signal wire - sounds obvious - and seal it. Below is a step by step of how I went about installing the new sockets

    Expanded a small diameter - ~1.5mm - clear shrink tube to get over the pin.



    Recovered.



    Recovered glue line shrink tube.



    Silicone seals expanded to get over pins.



    Inserted into the socket



    Finished.



    Installed. You’ll notice I left the original seal on the wire run for added sealing - not that it’ll do much.



    I hope this helps!
    Last edited by BMW Mdrei; 07-12-2016 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Update
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Mdrei View Post
    I thought Iíd chime in on the wheel speed sensors since I just installed mine last night. Iím working on a full write up for my E36 M3 (build date 10/94) with a bit of fluff, but Iíd like to get this out sooner than later since it seems to be a recurring question - Iíve asked it as well.

    I went a bit overboard and purchased new sensors to eliminate the potential problems of a used sensor. When I was looking for the front sensors I stuck to the E36/7 since both the E36 and Z3 knuckles are essentially the same.
    Front wheel speed sensors are from a late model Mk60 based Z3.

    - Front ABS Speed Sensor - Left: 34526752689
    - Front ABS Speed Sensor - Right: 34526752690

    Side by side comparison of the front:Iím not saying this is the correct way to do it, but it worked for me. Iíll add pictures later this weekend of the front socket installed.

    I hope this helps!
    This is amazing, thank you for doing this! I would've loved to have this when I did the swap, and I was in a rush when I installed it so I barely documented it with images.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i View Post
    This is amazing, thank you for doing this! I would've loved to have this when I did the swap, and I was in a rush when I installed it so I barely documented it with images.
    No problem!

    I'd like to provide the answers to questions I've asked and give some insight into potential solutions.
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    Do you have part numbers for the universal connectors? I've never managed to find them and always need to buy the BMW ones and file them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
    Do you have part numbers for the universal connectors? I've never managed to find them and always need to buy the BMW ones and file them.
    He included a link in the post with all the details:

    61131392246
    Last edited by jakermac; 07-12-2016 at 12:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    He included a link in the post with all the details:

    61131392246
    Thanks! Missed that somehow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
    Do you have part numbers for the universal connectors? I've never managed to find them and always need to buy the BMW ones and file them.
    I added the part number to the link like the rest. I thought I included it, but missed it.

    It would be nice to get all of this documented in one place. Like I said in my first post I'm going to be keeping a log of my build for future posting.

    I have most of the parts ready to go in or already installed, but I'm working on additional items as I go. If a question pops I'll try to chime in if I have the answers as I know others will as well. Bimmerman535i has done a great job documenting and the OP has put together a nice list of links!
    Last edited by BMW Mdrei; 07-12-2016 at 06:15 PM.
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    Updated the first post.
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    Bimmerman535i, will this booster/MC/sensors work?
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-Z3-Brake...5XGSYP&vxp=mtr
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    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    Bimmerman535i, will this booster/MC/sensors work?
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-Z3-Brake...5XGSYP&vxp=mtr
    RealOEM shows the Z3M had a master cylinder and booster that are different from the non-M Z3 and E46 M3. It sounds like he used the E46 M3 master cylinder and a new Z3M booster (> $300), bit I'm looking for alternatives as well.
    S54 swap DME flashing - $100
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    $75 - standard or $170 - plug & play
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    Quote Originally Posted by sab0276 View Post
    Bimmerman535i, will this booster/MC/sensors work?
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-Z3-Brake...5XGSYP&vxp=mtr
    Quote Originally Posted by gpeterson View Post
    RealOEM shows the Z3M had a master cylinder and booster that are different from the non-M Z3 and E46 M3. It sounds like he used the E46 M3 master cylinder and a new Z3M booster (> $300), bit I'm looking for alternatives as well.
    The simple answer is yes. The more complicated - no I havenít proofed what Iím about to say - answer is no.

    The non-M booster will bolt on and the master cylinder (MC) will function along with the sensors.

    What you need to take into account are the bore diameters of the master cylinders available. Without looking at all of the specs youíre going to have different bias front to rear depending on your choice of MC. For example, I went with a late model E46 M3 that is different from the early E46 M3 - I donít have the specs on hand. I might change down the road because the specs better line up with the factory E36 MC.

    There are major differences in the booster, but I donít know if itís functionally different. Is a booster a booster or does it change the feel enough to warrant change? Like Bimmerman535i I went with the Z3M booster - ECS Tuning took pictures for their website using the one they sent me. I decided to go new for simplicity and make sure I was getting what I ordered.

    The take away here is they will bolt in and fit, but the functionality will differ...
    2003 E46 330i ZHP - Daily Driver | Bike Hauler
    1995 E36 M3 - Autocross | Fun


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Northern CA
    Posts
    1,988
    My Cars
    1998 M3/4/5
    So you used this booster? https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/34332282358/

    Are you happy with it and the newer E46 M3 MC? Thanks.
    S54 swap DME flashing - $100
    S54 swap CAN interface board (for proper A/C & check engine light) - $275
    e36 SAP sim/secondary air pump simulator:
    $75 - standard or $170 - plug & play
    e36 post-cat O2 sims: $115 shipped, plug & play

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    95 BMW M3 | 03 330i ZHP
    Quote Originally Posted by gpeterson View Post
    So you used this booster? https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/34332282358/ Are you happy with it and the newer E46 M3 MC? Thanks.
    That's mine - minus the fingerprints.

    I'm still working on the car, but it fits and seems fine. I'll know more once the installation is complete - I'm not in a hurry.

    Like I said above I'm trying to document things as I go.
    Last edited by BMW Mdrei; 07-26-2016 at 10:48 PM.
    2003 E46 330i ZHP - Daily Driver | Bike Hauler
    1995 E36 M3 - Autocross | Fun


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Menlo Park, CA
    Posts
    1,788
    My Cars
    95 M3 & Legacy Manwagon
    Yup, I used a new Z3M booster with a used E46 M3 master cylinder.

    Another alternative is E36 M3 booster, E46 M3 master, and a spacer to maintain the right stack height. I don't know the size needed, but I know it won't work right otherwise.

    I went with a new booster solely because my car had ~180k miles on it when I did the swap, and I knew I would hate to have the booster finally die when things weren't easy to access. I had been fighting a spongey pedal for a while and had addressed everything except the booster.

    I don't see why a non-M but still Mk60 Z3 setup wouldn't physically work, but without checking master sizes and booster difference with the Z3M one, I don't know if I'd risk it.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Posts
    4,433
    My Cars
    e90 M3,X5,e46 racer
    If you guys are building race cars, just get rid of the damn booster ... SOOOO much better!
    Check out the 8legs Racing page: https://www.facebook.com/8legsRacing/


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    MD, USA
    Posts
    570
    My Cars
    2005 M3 Coupe
    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i View Post
    Yup, I used a new Z3M booster with a used E46 M3 master cylinder.

    Another alternative is E36 M3 booster, E46 M3 master, and a spacer to maintain the right stack height. I don't know the size needed, but I know it won't work right otherwise.

    I went with a new booster solely because my car had ~180k miles on it when I did the swap, and I knew I would hate to have the booster finally die when things weren't easy to access. I had been fighting a spongey pedal for a while and had addressed everything except the booster.

    I don't see why a non-M but still Mk60 Z3 setup wouldn't physically work, but without checking master sizes and booster difference with the Z3M one, I don't know if I'd risk it.
    Do you need to adapt the fastener pattern? The E30 masters have a horizontal bolt pattern for the MC and I thought the E36 did as well, but I could be mistaken. I know that the E46 M3 booster has the clocked bolts on the MC.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScotcH View Post
    If you guys are building race cars, just get rid of the damn booster ... SOOOO much better!
    I disagree especially depending on the application. In endurance racing I think boosted brakes are preferable.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Posts
    4,433
    My Cars
    e90 M3,X5,e46 racer
    Quote Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
    Do you need to adapt the fastener pattern? The E30 masters have a horizontal bolt pattern for the MC and I thought the E36 did as well, but I could be mistaken. I know that the E46 M3 booster has the clocked bolts on the MC.



    I disagree especially depending on the application. In endurance racing I think boosted brakes are preferable.
    Raced 6hrs at Sebring ... absolutely no issues in an unboosted e36, stock otherwise. It was perfect.
    Check out the 8legs Racing page: https://www.facebook.com/8legsRacing/


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