Topic of Developing Track Facilities in Hawaii

[Roku35]

I'm sure that this has come up before, but can anybody paint the picture for development of track facilities in Hawaii. Insurance for a race track must be out of this world and very hard to support on a regular basis with Hawaii's small group of enthusiast and wanna be racers. Being on an island with a small number of track ready cars could also be limiting. I think us folks in Hawaii are at a disadvantage when it comes to having the means, know how and shear numbers to support/fund/maintain what most car enthusiast desire. A safe track!

There really needs to be a safe place for enthusiast to have track outings. How much would you pay to participate in a track session? $1000-$2000/half-day? The more I think about this, having this type of facility takes a great amount of management commitment and funding from all stakeholders (owners, dealers, developers, sponsors, clubs and especially the user/patrons). Even membership worthy that should span nationally to include a much larger group of organizations that have facilities all over the United States.

I really am just rambling and have no idea when it comes to national organizations. I just know that on the mainland there are way more enthusiast with way more BIG MONEY sponsors and organizations who promote these amenities to the enthusiast community. It probably doesn't help that our island population doesn't have the local support and money to kick-start something more serious than a large parking lot and a bunch of cones. Is it the Legislature?

I understand that mainland track/driving schools charge in excess of $3,000/day with a 3-day minimum prior to being released onto the open track. I think education is the key to making this successful. But, would enthusiast go that far and spend the money to obtain the qualifications to really make a track facility successful? This would surely help with obtaining and affording the right insurance for a track facility. Serious questions for serious enthusiast.

Has there been any attempts at driving or race driving schools on island?

What are the hurdles that have been encountered? City & County, Police, Fire Department support? Land lease, Land use, cost of buildings and maintaining facilities, restrooms/concessions/management/etc.

Sorry for my rambling...once I got started, I had more and more questions....and I don't even have a fast car!

Your thoughts on this subject matter is much appreciated. Mahalo!

[The Beastmaster]

Been there, done that.

[Roku35]

Must be a dead subject. No money! NO HONEY!

Doesn't matter, its all about how you look anyway

[The Beastmaster]

Must be a dead subject. No money! NO HONEY!

Doesn't matter, its all about how you look anyway

We used to host the BMW CCA HPDEs at Hawaii Raceway Park. Pretty much a car control clinic on Day 1, and lapping on Day 2. I can't remember how much we charged, but it was a few hundred dollars for the 2 days including meals and drinks. We also hosted HPDEs and Street Survival on Maui. There were 2 racing schools here, Skip Barber and Hawaii International Racing School.

IF there were to be another track on Oahu, it would have to serve multiple communities: road racing, quarter mile, dirt track, moto-x, auto-x, karting... For something like that, you'd probably need at least 75 acres and estimates to build that was about $150 million.

[Roku35]

Great comments! I forgot about the X-Games racing events. 150million really isn't that much if the Facilties will touch all those types of events. I'm sure the 75 acres can be worked and planned to be less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Beastmaster]

Great comments! I forgot about the X-Games racing events. 150million really isn't that much if the Facilties will touch all those types of events. I'm sure the 75 acres can be worked and planned to be less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The original plan was to get state funding or special purpose revenue bonds to finance the purchase of the land and construction. Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen here as we have other pressing problems such as affordable housing and the ever increasing homeless. There was another thought of creating a world class facility so auto manufacturers and race teams could do year round testing. These activities would generate substantial income to support the facilities.

However, with these world class facilities, organizations such as BMWCCH would not be able to afford to pay the going rental rate. We used to pay about $1k per day at HRP. Someplace like Laguna Seca charges between $8k - $20k per day, depending on the season, plus their associated personnel costs.

[Roku35]

The original plan was to get state funding or special purpose revenue bonds to finance the purchase of the land and construction. Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen here as we have other pressing problems such as affordable housing and the ever increasing homeless. There was another thought of creating a world class facility so auto manufacturers and race teams could do year round testing. These activities would generate substantial income to support the facilities.

However, with these world class facilities, organizations such as BMWCCH would not be able to afford to pay the going rental rate. We used to pay about $1k per day at HRP. Someplace like Laguna Seca charges between $8k - $20k per day, depending on the season, plus their associated personnel costs.

Ahhh yes. I knew this could be BIG business tickets. Then sponsors and developers would be the key element to give this any fighting chance. Like everything else on this island, without a constant flooooow of visitors, this State just doesn't work.

Like the Convention Center. Without consistent amount of large groups of out of town guests that book 1-2 weeks stay and activities, it will be impossible for the local population alone to support a project of this size magnitude.

The additional logistics of shipping cars/vehicles back and forth overseas for special events really isn't very convenient either. The more I think about the possibilities and growth required, the more I realize that Hawaii isn't ready for this AND is not at any level close enough to support the "Auto-Scene". Just not enough local interest. Back to Island living

[EvilBunny]

Greed is the biggest problem

[bimmer7602]

http://westhawaiitoday.com/news/loca...ng-speed-again

seemed like it was gaining support over here and then i stopped hearing about it.

[Roku35]

Of all places, Big Island Kona gets more support than Oahu??? Don't get me wrong, I love Kona, my parents have properties there, but they have soooo much less people to gather that much support in the community. Yes, you can't please all the people all the time and less people probably means less opposition. Pretty sad if the outer island can get a large and legal facility faster then the townies from Honolulu. Who is going to move to Kona? Still affordable homes if you have a solid j o b.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MauiM3Mania]

Find 250 acres on Oahu that is 'affordable', then you are set!

[Roku35]

Find 250 acres on Oahu that is 'affordable', then you are set!

I'm sure there has to be at least one philanthropist with suitable land that is just sitting there. The Navy has Barbers Point that they do not want and do not want to maintain. They will give it away if any and all liability is release from the Govt. Find a developer to maintain the roads and utilities and they will have endless opportunities. I only see money hungry businesses wanting to build solar farms everywhere. Thinking that it would help. Until HECO gets on board to diversify, I don't see how solar farms will help Hawaii overall. Again, the hard part is...if you build it, will they come? Like I said earlier, Hawaii's population would have to grow 10 times to have a chance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Beastmaster]

You are right about needing 10x the population. We have over 1M people on Oahu, but I think the motorsports racing community is less that 1%, or 10k. Of that 10k, we may have 1k active participants, + spectators. The bottom line is it is hard for those figures to pencil out, or break even. We suck.

- - - Updated - - -

Furthermore, if you want 250 acres of land, or even 75 acres, it is going to be zoned agricultural or conservation. Ala Moana Center encompasses 50 acres, so you'll need at least 1.5x the size of AMC. To operate a racetrack, the ag zoning must be changed to commercial, making the land extremely valuable. Greed kicks in and the racetrack goes away and office building, storage or whatever comes up instead, or they build houses.

[EvilBunny]

Big island would mean bigger track, less bullshit, better facilities, world wide accommodations and potential international recognition.

[Roku35]

Big island would mean bigger track, less bullshit, better facilities, world wide accommodations and potential international recognition.

Probably right. But maybe 200,000 people on island and maybe 100 enthusiast. Very different demographic on the Big Island (if you know what I mean). I love the Big Island, wish I could move/live there.

Like our rail. Needs everyone's support. Sad but true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EvilBunny]

It very much does need everyones support.

But Oahu odds a horrible place for a track, it has become the trash barge of the Pacific with the population hypocrisy, double standards, ignorant, and greed.

We're seriously thinking of selling our Oahu home now, beefier the market crashes again. Pay off big island house, get land in Montana or Idaho.

[Roku35]

No doubt there. Being able to afford to live in Hawaii is NOT for the faint of heart. It is jet the price you have to be willing to pay to live in paradise (figure of speech). To most visitors this is Paradise, with our great weather, beaches, clean air, outdoors, huge mixing pot of cultures and a perceived Aloha spirit, it is hard to beat when visiting.

I really don't see a facility thriving on any other island but Oahu. Outer islands just don't have the infrastructure or sophisticated support systems/organizations to execute. And I really believe it is NOT about space or money to build, more about how will this track help Hawaii.

Living is another story all together. And EVERYONE here knows it! Hawaii is unique as even with market crash, Hawaii real estate is relatively still stable. It may dip a little, but folks who make the choice to buy and live in Hawaii are in it for the long haul, so in a crash there are hardly any loss of values, because no one sells. It will just sputter and then pick up where it left off with slow increases each year. Definitely not like the mainland or Vegas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MauiM3Mania]

I really don't see a facility thriving on any other island but Oahu. Outer islands just don't have the infrastructure or sophisticated support systems/organizations to execute. And I really believe it is NOT about space or money to build, more about how will this track help Hawaii.

Eh.... Maui has had an NHRA sanctioned drag strip for over 50 years and they get a good turn out from our 150k residents. In addition to the drag people there is a world class kart track, moto-x is busy and even our junk auto-x course area has been steady since late 2003. At the height of participation, we (auto-x) attracted 35 drivers. What stops people from returning is our poor track surface, otherwise who knows what the turnout would be if our twelve acres had some decent asphalt.

The running joke here is the idea to convince Oprah to give us 640 acres of her upcountry property to be operated as the Oprah Winfrey Maui Motorsports Park for the Disadvantaged Maui Racer. Picture this, F1 could stop by on the way to Japan, HPDE/driving schools/race car rentals for the challenged Wailea visitors and all the while, the local motorsports enthusiasts would keep the track from getting dusty.

I feel outer islands are in a much better position to host a facility simply because of land availability compared to Oahu's limited area/crowded scene. Heck, didn't Kauai build a 1/4 mile strip in the past ten years?

[Roku35]

Eh.... Maui has had an NHRA sanctioned drag strip for over 50 years and they get a good turn out from our 150k residents. In addition to the drag people there is a world class kart track, moto-x is busy and even our junk auto-x course area has been steady since late 2003. At the height of participation, we (auto-x) attracted 35 drivers. What stops people from returning is our poor track surface, otherwise who knows what the turnout would be if our twelve acres had some decent asphalt.

Cool! I didn't know that. When had the ferry, I do remember a bunch of race nutz having to ship over their vehicles over to Maui for an event. I thought getting rid of the ferry was such a stupid thing to do. If you ask me, that decision was pure politics. It really did more damage to Hawaii than help. I hear that it is now gone for good. Shame on them!