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I recently got my hands on a 2002 m3 6 speed with 140,000 miles and from the outside the car looked great but as soon as I drove it I knew something wasn't right I thought it was just bad bushing because it was only making a tiny noise in the back so after a days I decided to get to the bottom of the cause so I started removing interior and found the worst subframe failure I have seen on the internet but I couldn't leave it like the so it's at the shop now getting the whole rear end of the car overhauled I will post pics of the damaged and the repairs unfortunately I didn't get pics from underneath the car but it didn't look any better they are going to weld in a subframe reinforcement similar to the one I posted and most likely a four point cage after the subframe is fixed
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Fast
Damn. That's definitely one of the worst. Thats about $8-$11,000 worth of damage to repair if the sheetmetal underneath needs to be replaced. Study up on Redish Motorsports out of the UK. They are absolute masters and have several youtube videos of repairs and how to address them.
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I have been doing a lot of research on it and I have seen a few worse but my car is at the shop right now and I just looked at it and from the looks of everything they're not going to need to replace the sheet metal they were able to put everything back into place and weld it and they are adding in welded rear shock and subframe reinforcement and they're putting a big steel plate back there where the diff mounts to and hooking it to the subframe reinforcement
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From the looks of it on the lift I think that failed subframe bushings are the cause
Fast
Correct. Most failures happen on the left rear and right front mounting points. The torsional load from the power directly stresses those two points.
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Some pics I snapped of the progress so far and I ordered power flex subframe bushings still waiting for those it should be done next week
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And one of the muffler cleaned up
Fast
Nice work. Put reinforcement plates in.
Member
Out of curiosity, how would you know or suspect you have the subframe problem?
Member
The best way to find out if there's a subframe problem is to get the car on a lift and look. The bushings are fairly easy to see. The problem seems to occur in the early E46s. I think BMW increase the thickness of the sheet metal starting with model year 2002.
The actual number of early E46s with subframe issues is likely very small. But, if you get serious about an BMW you NEED to have the car undergo a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) performed by a reputable shop that specializes in BMWs. It'll cost between $150 and $250. Consider it money well spent.
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Yeah I wish I would have payed more attention when I got my car but luckily there is a shop about two miles from my house and they build and sell alot of tube frame dirt car chassis and alot of hot rod performance stuff so this wasn't that hard for them I stopped by again today to check the progress and it's looking good
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They have more welding to do but they said that they should be done with the roll bar and welding today and that they were going to start dropping the sub frame to put in the new power flex subframe bushings
Member
Can you jack the car and loook underneath?
Can you lift the trunk carpet and get an idea of damage or not?
E39 DIYs done: Wipers, O2 sensors , MAF , Upper/Lower Intake Boots , FSU , ABS module fix , Power Steering Reservoir , Changed Rear Differential Oil , DISA , SAP, Vacuum lines , Radar Detector Hardwire , Fuel Filter , LED Angel Eyes , Headlight Adjusters--> [1],[2], [3] , Headlight Polishing, Punted: Fan Clutch/Tensioner/Pulleys , Oil cap O-rings , Window regulator ,Crumbling Cowl
Member
what i find interesting is that they are doing some serious welding on the car with the battery still attached. while i don't have an opinion on the subject, the rest of the world is pretty adamant about whether its right or wrong, most saying that you never, ever, weld with the battery connected.
Originally Posted by 96E36slider
Tom D
77 e21 - m42
88 e30m3
04 330 dinan3
84 r1000rt
02 r1150rs
all of them gray
14 f800gsa - red headed stepchild!
Such Membr
Yes to the former.
Kind-of to the latter.
The best way is underneath the car. The problem starts at the point where the sub bushings contact the underside of the floor (or seat depending on perspective). The damage can range from really, REALLY bad (see: OP's pix) to just a crack.
Unfortunately the cracks (alone) will be hard to find without dropping the sub-frame off of the car in some way. Sometimes you can get under and if the crack has traveled out enough you will see it poking it's head out from the bushing junctions.
If the damage is severe then you will be able to pull the trunk's carpet out and it will smack you in the face.
But, if it's just a crack I doubt you would notice any serious detriment to performance unless you track the car, if it's severe you likely would already know because the racket it makes would make you mental.
I have done a fair amount of research on the subject and the earlier (pre 09/01...I think?) chassis and just about all M3s suffer this fate. It also seems like the problem is not as endemic as some may have you believe, save for the M3...To support Marco.
Fast
For anyone curious about preliminary signs of cracking, I highly recommend watching all of Redish's videos on youtube.
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I wish I would have checked this car out better when I bought it but I picked it up today so i can enjoy it for the weekend but it still doesn't have working turn signals so it will go back to the shop next week
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Here's the before pic
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