What Kind of Remote Keyless Entry Did My 1991 850 Come With

[E36Ron]

My 1991 850 has VIN CB74000, and I need to figure out what kind of Remote Keyless Entry it originally came with.

It has working Central Locking, and it has a factory anti-theft setup, as shown by working LEDs in the radio and on the console upper right adjacent to the gear shift.
But the remotes it came to me with, which look like this, BMW Key with Integral Remote.jpgdo not lock or unlock the car remotely.


The Owners Manual, original with the car, shows a remote key similar to this, BMW Flip Key Remote - Back.jpgBMW Flip Key Remote - Front.jpg


1. Is this the key type that most owners of similar early 850 cars have?

2. Is this the famous "infrared" system that preceded radio frequency remotes?

3. Were I able to acquire one or more of these, is "initializing the keys" what programs the remote to the car?

4. If this is not the type of remote that you have, or which you think belongs on my car, what would be the likely type I should be looking for, and how would I program one, if acquired, to my car?

5. If this is definitely the correct type, and it can be programmed to my car, does anyone have one or two they'd like to part with?

Thanks to all,

-- E36Ron


CB74000 - E36Ron.JPG

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My '91 only came with a standard key and not remote function. It has a fancy push button Roundel though to guide me in when it's so dark I can't see the key hole! Haha.


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[olinjohnston]

The only thing I know for certain is that the remote style you got did not come out until 9/1993. (94 MY)

[E36Ron]

My '91 only came with a standard key and not remote function. It has a fancy push button Roundel though to guide me in when it's so dark I can't see the key hole! Haha.


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Yes, that's the one with the light in the key.

- - - Updated - - -

The only thing I know for certain is that the remote style you got did not come out until 9/1993. (94 MY)

Thank you. Agreed, it is one of the later RF ones.

[G8nightman]

The 91 cars remote lock unlock is disabled. This was not available till 93 I think and from what I have read it's a hassle getting to work. I would just get a newer alarm that you can use with a smart phone and call it a day.

[E36Ron]

The 91 cars remote lock unlock is disabled. This was not available till 93 I think and from what I have read it's a hassle getting to work. I would just get a newer alarm that you can use with a smart phone and call it a day.

Thanks, I may have to do that eventually. But meanwhile, do you have any links to that discussion, or, better still, to one that got it to work?

[NYGUYBMW850]

I have a 92 850 build 7/1991 with a separate transmitter that looks different from what you posted. I will include a picture.

[cartoonz]

a lot of the US 91's had an Alpine 3 button remote FOB. Not built into the key, a separate FOB
IF you have that receiver under the knee bolster under the steering column, that's the only remote that will work, no matter what anyone tells you.
3ButtonFob.jpg

Some cars have the system, some do not. I'm thinking it was a dealer option over here, but not sure. i do know that none of the infrared's survived the boat ride though (thanks US legal system)

[NYGUYBMW850]

Mine looks like the pic posted by Cartoonz separate from key.

[E36Ron]

a lot of the US 91's had an Alpine 3 button remote FOB. Not built into the key, a separate FOB
IF you have that receiver under the knee bolster under the steering column, that's the only remote that will work, no matter what anyone tells you.

Some cars have the system, some do not. I'm thinking it was a dealer option over here, but not sure. i do know that none of the infrared's survived the boat ride though (thanks US legal system)

That's very interesting, and is consistent with what the guys at United Auto Security told me. I too believe the Alpine is a dealer install, and this would explain why what came on the US cars differed from what was printed in the original Owners Manuals, that were printed in Germany.

Can you elaborate on why "none of the infrareds survived"?

And why, even if we could somehow get an original flip type IR remote now, we could not get it to work?

Thanks,

-- E31Ron

[CaifanSC]

The 91 cars remote lock unlock is disabled. This was not available till 93 I think and from what I have read it's a hassle getting to work. I would just get a newer alarm that you can use with a smart phone and call it a day.

Accurate, but with a big asterisk!

Some US models actually were fitted with the wiring for the IR system but the hardware was removed in order to disable the system. Your best bet would be to check for the IR connectors in the sunroof panel and in the pass side footwell. IF they are there, all you have to do is plug in the module, get the IR sensor and install it and get the cool switchblade keys (cool but expensive). Otherwise, you can easily install some of the Alpine/BMW kits with separate fobs with 1/3 buttons.For those you will need matching "Chips" in module and remotes.

[E36Ron]

"Some US models actually were fitted with the wiring for the IR system but the hardware was removed in order to disable the system."

Can anyone explain historically why the system was deliberately disabled?

-- E31Ron

[olinjohnston]

Can anyone explain historically why the system was deliberately disabled?

-- E31Ron

Purely bureaucratic reasons pertaining to outdated/ridiculous regulatory BS in the United States.

[NYGUYBMW850]

Here is what mine looks like . Although it looks like Cartoonz it only has one button.bmw remote.jpg

[E36Ron]

Here is what mine looks like . Although it looks like Cartoonz it only has one button.Attachment 575032

Attachment didn't come through -- "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator."

Perhaps you can try embedding the picture?

-- Ron

[LouM]

I also have a '92 with a single button remote. You also need a remote matching module (FCC ID #s should match. My ID # is A269ZUA087). The module is attached to the kick panel above the driver's foot well. There is a chip inside the remote that must match the chip inside module. All of this is Alpine. See pictures.
remote controller.jpgremote.jpgremote chip sm.jpg

I do have a spare remote (in the picture). I also have a link to the chips somewhere. Not sure if they are still available. But they were when I was going through this same search.

LouM...

By the way... Is your VIN # correct? My '92 is CB42540.

[E36Ron]

By the way... Is your VIN # correct? My '92 is CB42540.

Hi Lou: That is odd. Mine is a 91 850 with VIN CB74000, build date 06/91. Strange that your VIN for a 92 should be so much lower numerically.

Regarding the keyless entry, thanks for all the detail. I will have to find time to drop the drivers foot well kick panel to see what's under there, to decide how to proceed.

-- E31Ron

[NYGUYBMW850]

Mine looks like LouM's remote.

[cartoonz]

Yeah, most of them looked like LouM's remote... I think the pic I found was for an E36... which you CAN actually use the whole system from if you're crafty

[TedBobo]

a lot of the US 91's had an Alpine 3 button remote FOB. Not built into the key, a separate FOB IF you have that receiver under the knee bolster under the steering column, that's the only remote that will work, no matter what anyone tells you. <img src="http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=574958"/> Some cars have the system, some do not. I'm thinking it was a dealer option over here, but not sure. i do know that none of the infrared's survived the boat ride though (thanks US legal system)

My original & the new replacement I got from Gault many years ago are identical to the one pictured above. The only function that worked was the "locking" function. I had to manually unlock the doors. Tony the "SoCal Electronic Wizard" advised me to trash it!

[CaifanSC]

I also have a '92 with a single button remote. You also need a remote matching module (FCC ID #s should match. My ID # is A269ZUA087). The module is attached to the kick panel above the driver's foot well. There is a chip inside the remote that must match the chip inside module. All of this is Alpine. See pictures.
remote controller.jpgremote.jpgremote chip sm.jpg

I do have a spare remote (in the picture). I also have a link to the chips somewhere. Not sure if they are still available. But they were when I was going through this same search.

LouM...

By the way... Is your VIN # correct? My '92 is CB42540.

I still have those chips I bought from you many moons back . I thought i was going to add this system to the 850 so I ended up getting 2 or 3 matching sets from ya.

[E36Ron]

Hi CalifanSC:

In an earlier post in this thread, you said:

Otherwise, you can easily install some of the Alpine/BMW kits with separate fobs with 1/3 buttons.For those you will need matching "Chips" in module and remotes.

My car seems to have a functioning Alpine remote setup (just without the remote), but it also does have the original IR wiring harness.

That would mean that the console-mounted Alarm LED would be the Alpine one, not the fancy-dandy one that "initializes" the IR remote, so that would have to be sourced as well in order to make the IR setup work, along with the remotes, IR receiver and module. (Hence the reference to "hassle" by G8nightman.)

So, staying with Alpine, suppose my early car came through with the Alpine 1-button remote, and that I wanted to replace that with a 3-button Alpine set, assuming I could find one.

Since that set seems to have a double lock function, would that include comfort-open and close (by just holding down the button the same way you hold the door key turned)?

I really would not want to install any remote system that didn't also do the full comfort open-close. That is one of the coolest features on the car -- and I'd even like to be able to make that work from inside the car.

What do you think?

-- E36Ron

[CaifanSC]

I do believe the console led has a different pn for IR and non-IR. Unfortunatelly i dont have the IR wiring in the 91 and the 94 has a different system. However, i am able to confirm first hand that a fellow 8er with a US market 91 with the IR wiring added the components and the locking and double locking features worked with no recoding aka plug n play. And one of the auto functions worked either auto up or auto down, but not both. Search for posts from user MJRgroup he mentions in one post which was working.

[E36Ron]

Thanks, CalifanSC, for the helpful suggestion to pursue postings by MJRgroup.

The following two threads, in addition to this current one, provide very complete answers to all of my questions concerning early IR remote keyless entry:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...light=MJRgroup

(pictures of complete factory IR switchblade remote setup by MJRgroup at Post 52)

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2097684-Window-up-down-feature-from-remote-key-wasn-t-this-available&highlight=Remote+MJRgroup


The following thread provides useful information, gossip and pictures regarding Alpine dealer installed options:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...+keyless+entry


My overall conclusions from this piece of research, for me personally, are as follows: The original 1991 factory IR remote keyless entry came with full "comfort" open and close up and down capability, but was removed for US delivery due to a safety recall concerning possible injury to occupants from a distant (unseen) remote close.

(Note also, that E31s came through with a potentially much more dangerous "feature," that you could lock someone inside the car with all the windows closed and no way to get out without an ignition key, if the remote was used to double lock the car from outside (think leaving a kid inside the car on a hot day). To me, THIS is a true recall issue, apparently never addressed in the E31, but bypassed at the door handles in the E36, where two pulls from inside undid double locking. But that's another story.)

The US E31 cars were fitted with Alpine dealer-installed, initially 1-button, and later, 3-button, remotes, some of which may have had the remote comfort open feature, but which, for sure, none of which had the remote comfort close feature. (Anyone disagree with this?).

My car has the remote IR wiring, but an Alpine alarm system, presumably an early 1-button just missing the remote. But were I to source and install either all of the IR parts, or upgrade the Alpine to a 3-button, I would still not get remote comfort close. To me having both is just the coolest thing, and I do not want only one.

Apparently in subsequent years, all luxury car makers using this feature provided both the "luxury" remote open and close, as do aftermarket suppliers. I guess the original recall must have become "inoperative" (to use either a Watergate or Ollie North phrase).

United Auto Security provides a tailored aftermarket solution for the E31, their BMWEZX6B, which does both remote comfort open and close, about which I have read favorable passing comments.

Has anyone on this thread ever installed one of these, and what do you think of them?

PS: Also, do you know if they will do the install if you take the car to them?

Thanks to all,

-- E36Ron

[cartoonz]

Too funny, I was going to mention UAS as a solution.
Yes, they work. Yes, they are fairly simple to install.

Doubtful they'd install it, but whatever floats your boat... there are plenty of guys that understand BMW installs