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Thread: Car cranks, but takes a while to fire

  1. #1
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    Car cranks, but takes a while to fire

    I just bought my daughter a 2004 Z4 3.0i with 40,000 miles. I drive a 2001 M3 and my wife drives a 2006 M5, so it was expected for my daughter to join the BMW family when she got her license.

    The issue is occasionally it will crank for longer than normal before firing up. When it does fire up, it's a little rough for a few seconds.

    Before I go about replacing the crank angle sensor, fuel filter, spark plugs, battery, etc. I thought this community may be able to help me out.

    Anyone had the same issue? Any known fix?

    BTW the car appears completely stock except for an AFE intake.

    Thanks in advance,
    Steve
    Last edited by Steve Jarvis; 06-10-2016 at 04:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    Clean the idle control valve while you are at it...

  3. #3
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    Replace the battery first, sounds like you are ready to throw a lot of money at a car without doing the simple fix first.

    Lucky daughter...

    Going into my TENTH YEAR of providing high quality reproduction BMW fabrics!

    PRICE CUT on ALL FABRICS
    Offering the best prices on the best quality reproduction fabrics!

  4. #4
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    The voltage is fine on the battery and it's been replaced. The car might start fine after sitting over night and then crank too long after sitting for an hour. The engine doesn't crank slowly, it just cranks longer the it should some times.

    Later, Steve

  5. #5
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    #1.Check condition of sparkplugs for signs of bad engine performance, and replace with new NGK plugs. I am assuming that there are no CEL,SES lights on dash, correct?
    Last edited by MIKYZZ4; 06-12-2016 at 01:52 PM.

  6. #6
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    Adjust clutch stop to eliminate the possibility that it's preventing engagement of the clutch micro switch in the start sequence. It's not high on the list of possible causes but only takes a few minutes to eliminate from the list.

    Sent from my iPhone using BF.com

  7. #7
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    Putting a new set of plugs in this week.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The car cranks, it just doesn't fire, so I doubt it's the clutch switch.

    Thanks, Steve

    - - - Updated - - -

    FYI no CEL

  8. #8
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    Do you have starting issue after car sit for few hours or overnight? It might be a bad fuel pressure regulator.

  9. #9
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    Actually, it tends to start better after sitting over night. I've even tried giving the car more time after I turn it on, before cranking, so it has a chance to build fuel pressure. This hasn't helped, so I think I'm going to order a crank angle sensor this week and see how it goes.

    Later, Steve

  10. #10
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    I ordered the crank angle sensor, I'll let everyone know how it goes when I get it installed.

    Later, Steve

  11. #11
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    I wondered if you ever found a fix for your hard start issue ,if not, check for loose sensor connections(CPS,CMP,TPS)and that ICV is operating properly and not sticking. A scan with a BMW specific scanner or software may uncover a hidden pending code, that would help with diagnosis.

  12. #12
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    I haven't installed the sensor yet. I'm out of jack stands. I'm doing a brake upgrade on my 911 (which is occupying 4 of my jack stands) and we're getting my neighbors old 356 Speedster kit back on the road (which is using my other jack stands). It's also been 90+ degrees here for the last two weeks, so I haven't been motivated to try to do the sensor.

    I'll let you know as soon as I've replaced the switch.

    Later, Steve

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Jarvis View Post
    I just bought my daughter a 2004 Z4 3.0i with 40,000 miles. ... when she got her license.
    Way to go, dad!

    It's because there's no backseat, right?
    Not so much a signature as a cry for help.

    Hold on, saw this in a cartoon once...think I can pull it off.

  14. #14
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    No back seat and a manual gearbox reduce distractions and hopefully force her to drive and not ride. Big enough to have a measure of safety, but small enough to be maneuverable. I believe the ability to avoid an accident is more important than the ability to survive an accident.

    The cost was less than a new Honda Civic and the insurance was less.

    Later, Steve
    Last edited by Steve Jarvis; 09-07-2016 at 07:30 AM.

  15. #15
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    UPDATE

    I installed the crank angle sensor and it made no difference. I guess i'll do the fuel filter/regulator next.

  16. #16
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    Clean the idle control valve first... Easy to do compared to doing the fuel filter/pressure regulator. I just checked the TIS and it's not exactly a DIY project while lying on your back....

    Sent from my iPhone using BF.com

  17. #17
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    Here's an update.

    I removed and cleaned the Idle Air Control Valve. As expected on a 45,000 mile car, it was already very clean. It turned out to be useful though, because I found this issue.

    Z4 Hose.jpg

    I installed a new hose, but that didn't improve the starting issue. I then installed a new fuel filter/pressure regulator. Installing this didn't fix the issue either.

    I have now driven the car enough to isolate the issue. It cold starts without any issue (such as sitting over night). If you turn the car off and back on in a short period of time (like stopping to get gas), it's not an issue. The car has a starting issue when it has set for 45+ minutes, but not long enough to be totally cold. Given this, I'm starting to think it's either a coolant temperature sensor (though I don't have a code) or it has an aftermarket tune that is creating the issue.

    Here's the intake that is currently on the car and making be believe it has a tune.

    Z4 AFE.JPG

    I may replace the sensor since it's pretty cheap, but I'm also going to see if I can determine if it has an aftermarket tune.

    Later, Steve
    Last edited by Steve Jarvis; 05-05-2017 at 03:33 PM.
    2017 BMW M4 Comp
    2011 BMW Z4 35i 6sp
    2001 Porsche 911 Turbo 6spd
    2004 BMW Z4 3.0i 6spd
    2001 BMW M3 6spd
    2018 BMW M550i X-Drive

  18. #18
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    Has a diagnostic scan ever been performed with BMW specific software, such as INPA? If not, any scan tool? Codes?
    We need info, as of now everyone is guessing-and your throwing parts!
    Lean codes, followed by a smoke test would have easily discovered that torn intake boot, and other leaks, if present!
    Last edited by MIKYZZ4; 01-02-2017 at 11:04 PM.

  19. #19
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    I have scanned for codes and none are present. I have not scanned using a more high end scanner, but I will.

    The car appears to be too rich when it finally fires.

    Later, Steve
    2017 BMW M4 Comp
    2011 BMW Z4 35i 6sp
    2001 Porsche 911 Turbo 6spd
    2004 BMW Z4 3.0i 6spd
    2001 BMW M3 6spd
    2018 BMW M550i X-Drive

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Jarvis View Post
    Here's an update.

    I removed and cleaned the Idle Air Control Valve. As expected on a 45,000 mile car, it was already very clean. It turned out to be useful though, because I found this issue.

    I installed a new hose, but that didn't improve the starting issue. I then installed a new fuel filter/pressure regulator. Installing this didn't fix the issue either.

    I have now driven the car enough to isolate the issue. It could starts without any issue. If you turn the car off and back on in a short period of time (like stopping to get gas), it's not an issue. The car has a starting issue when it has set for 45+ minutes, but not long enough to be totally cold. Given this, I starting to think it's either a coolant temperature sensor (thought I don't have a code) or it has an aftermarket tune that is creating the issue.

    Here's the intake that is currently on the car and making be believe it has a tune.

    I may replace the sensor since it's pretty cheap, but I'm also going to see if I can determine if it has an aftermarket tune.

    Later, Steve
    I would not assume it has a tune just because it has a CAI as that is one of the cheapest mods one can do. You could consider swapping back to an OEM intake as it could be causing issues on its own though. MAF is another area I would suggest.
    Last edited by chickdr; 01-03-2017 at 01:36 PM.

  21. #21
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    I know it may or may not have a tune, but a bad tune could cause this very specific issue.

    The issue is definitely related to coolant versus engine temps.

    Later, Steve
    2017 BMW M4 Comp
    2011 BMW Z4 35i 6sp
    2001 Porsche 911 Turbo 6spd
    2004 BMW Z4 3.0i 6spd
    2001 BMW M3 6spd
    2018 BMW M550i X-Drive

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Jarvis View Post
    I have scanned for codes and none are present. I have not scanned using a more high end scanner, but I will.

    The car appears to be too rich when it finally fires.

    Later, Steve
    If stored codes have recently been cleared, you might need to perform a long enough drive cycle for updated codes to appear.

  23. #23
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    I have recently purchased a 2004 3.0si z4, i am having the same sort or issue with starting, if it's sat a while it will start second or third crank of the engine, if it's been sat a short period of time the it will take 10-15 cranks or even won't start, when if finally does start it splutters and starts off awrfully.
    when i turn the ignition on i can here the fuel pump from the tank kicking in but this is intermittent and rather loud.
    i have changed the plugs and this has not helped, the next stage is to change the LPFP in the tank and hopefully this will do the trick.
    if anyone has and other ideal just let me know, thanks

    Ben

  24. #24
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    Scan for codes, so I don't have to guess!

  25. #25
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    Here's an update.

    As previously mentioned, I have installed a new crank angle sensor, new plugs, new intake elbow (after the maf) and new fuel filter/pressure regulator. No luck.

    I have now had a scan performed and there are no codes (other than a misfire code caused by the issue). We also checked the software version and it is the original/stock software (based on the install date).

    My guess is it could be the coolant temperature sensor, but I need to spend some time monitoring the data as it's not throwing a code. I may have to resort to calling my local BMW guy to see if they have seen more of this issue.

    Later, Steve
    2017 BMW M4 Comp
    2011 BMW Z4 35i 6sp
    2001 Porsche 911 Turbo 6spd
    2004 BMW Z4 3.0i 6spd
    2001 BMW M3 6spd
    2018 BMW M550i X-Drive

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