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Thread: BMW E24 AC upgrade(AS OF 2016)

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcains View Post
    Any of the Sanden "508" clones you see will work, as long as you choose one with the double V-belt pulley. You may see different versions with various types of fittings for the hoses, but that's not a big concern because you'll be getting new hoses anyway.

    Here's an example:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-C-AC-Compr...pWXdDJ&vxp=mtr
    thanks. I'll be picking one of these up,earlier drier and a few Orings.

  2. #102
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    I had a new Trane system installed in my house with R-410 ("Puron") refrigerant. Don't know anything about that, but it is legal and cheap.

    But it is a high pressure refrigerant as follows:
    Emerson Technologies and other industry partners have identified R-410A as an excellent long-term solution for residential and light commercial air-conditioning, due to its combination of high-efficiency performance and direct GWP value, which is close to that of R-22. System manufacturers have had great success with R-410A because of its energy efficient properties and ease of use in their systems. In addition, components are now widely available for designing efficient R-410A systems.
    Newer air conditioning models are designed to be used with R-410A for reliable and more efficient operation. Because R-410A can absorb and release more heat than R-22, an air conditioning compressor can run at a cooler temperature, reducing the risk of compressor burnout due to overheating.
    R-410A also functions at a higher pressure than R-22, so new compressors are built to withstand greater stresses, reducing the chance for cracking. If someone were to put R-410A refrigerant into a system designed for R-22, the pressure would be too much and the unit would break.
    All air conditioners use an oil to keep the compressor lubricated during operation. R-22 air conditioners use mineral oil and R-410A systems use Polyol Ester oil (POE). POE oil is generally more soluble with R-410A than mineral oil is with R-22. This means the R-410A system operates more efficiently, reducing wear and tear on the compressor.
    In addition, temperature glide is a property of some HFC refrigerant blends or mixtures and is generally undesirable. Because the composition alters during a phase change, there is a slight change in evaporating and condensing temperature at constant pressure. Commercial air conditioning systems that use higher glide refrigerants are usually designed to work around the problems associated with glide, with little or no effect on system performance.
    Last edited by Sansouci; 07-08-2016 at 10:40 PM.

  3. #103
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    Therein lies the beauty of R152a in your car's A/C system - very low system pressures, low load on the compressor and seals, great cooling capacity, cheap.
    Dean
    Lutz, FL

    '85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
    '87 Spider Veloce
    '92 Spider Veloce
    '08 350Z


  4. #104
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    If you're a beginner like me like will come in handy.

    8866.jpg
    94045.jpg
    153631.jpg
    176886.jpg
    This shows all(if I'm not mistaken) layout of the system and the o-rings that'll need to be replaced. I'll update this with part list for each picture later.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by hakeem43020; 07-09-2016 at 04:16 AM.

  5. #105
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    Replacement o-rings are available at your local auto parts store, so don't sweat that too much.

    Cheers,

  6. #106
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    All ears here. Shop just diagnosed a leaky condenser and gave me a $2000 estimate to fix my AC.

  7. #107
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    Can you run r152 with a sd508 meant for r134? Also is it mandatory to replace the expansion valve or can I remove and clean it?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonym427 View Post
    Can you run r152 with a sd508 meant for r134? Also is it mandatory to replace the expansion valve or can I remove and clean it?
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it matters as long as you use the correct oil.

    if you can I'd say just replace the expansion valve and get it over with. I'm sure you wouldn't want to have to go through all the center console disassembly all over again when you're done. Be sure to change Orings and clean the evaporator while you're in there. Putting some lube in the fan also wouldn't hurt. My fan use to squeak on low speed but a little lube fixed it. Do all those to avoid having to pull it out again because it's really time consuming.

    Regarding r152, I'm tempted to try this but people keep mentioning how flammable it is. Has anyone had any issues with it?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powershouse View Post
    All ears here. Shop just diagnosed a leaky condenser and gave me a $2000 estimate to fix my AC.
    I'd love to see them itemize that bill. What a bunch of BS, but you show up in a 30-year old German car . . . Find another shop.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tonym427 View Post
    Can you run r152 with a sd508 meant for r134? Also is it mandatory to replace the expansion valve or can I remove and clean it?
    No issues, but you do need to use the proper (Ester) oil with R152a and flush the system properly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem43020 View Post
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it matters as long as you use the correct oil.

    if you can I'd say just replace the expansion valve and get it over with. I'm sure you wouldn't want to have to go through all the center console disassembly all over again when you're done. Be sure to change Orings and clean the evaporator while you're in there. Putting some lube in the fan also wouldn't hurt. My fan use to squeak on low speed but a little lube fixed it. Do all those to avoid having to pull it out again because it's really time consuming.

    Regarding r152, I'm tempted to try this but people keep mentioning how flammable it is. Has anyone had any issues with it?
    I wouldn't worry much about the flammability of the R152a. Gasoline burns, too, and you may have 20 gallons of that on-board. In either case, you need the spill (although the refrigerant will dissipate almost immediately) and an ignition source fo there to be any flames. There's just not enough R152a to cause a Hindenburg situation.
    Dean
    Lutz, FL

    '85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
    '87 Spider Veloce
    '92 Spider Veloce
    '08 350Z


  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcains View Post
    I'd love to see them itemize that bill. What a bunch of BS, but you show up in a 30-year old German car . . . Find another shop.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No issues, but you do need to use the proper (Ester) oil with R152a and flush the system properly.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I wouldn't worry much about the flammability of the R152a. Gasoline burns, too, and you may have 20 gallons of that on-board. In either case, you need the spill (although the refrigerant will dissipate almost immediately) and an ignition source fo there to be any flames. There's just not enough R152a to cause a Hindenburg situation.
    Thanks for clarifying. I'm stuck now between R12 and R152. So little update. Not wanting to pay $110+ for a drier I read up online and found many claim the earlier dryers also work in the late e24 models. I ordered this drier and the SANDEN 508 compressor will be in later today. I really am not looking forward to removing the expansion valve. After checking it looks like the previous owner changed the expansion valve pipe and put a fitting a size bigger In it so none of the expansion valves I bought(3 of them) fit it because the end that connects to the expansion valve is one size too big. I'll either have to go with an adapter, get the pipe cut or get a whole new pipe. To disconnect the pipe inside you have to remove some yellow sticky stuff that was used to cover the pipe, does this have to be reapplied or can we go without it?
    Last edited by hakeem43020; 07-13-2016 at 01:15 PM.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem43020 View Post
    Thanks for clarifying. I'm stuck now between R12 and R152. So little update. Not wanting to pay $110+ for a drier I read up online and found many claim the earlier dryers also work in the late e24 models. I ordered this drier and the SANDEN 508 compressor will be in later today. I really am not looking forward to removing the expansion valve. After checking it looks like the previous owner changed the expansion valve pipe and put a fitting a size bigger In it so none of the expansion valves I bought(3 of them) fit it because the end that connects to the expansion valve is one size too big. I'll either have to go with an adapter, get the pipe cut or get a whole new pipe. To disconnect the pipe inside you have to remove some yellow sticky stuff that was used to cover the pipe, does this have to be reapplied or can we go without it?

    I hope that drier actually works, its made by URO parts.

  12. #112
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    Hmm, I would think any drier with the proper fittings would work, in theory.

    For the expansion valve I'd be very surprised if there were more than 1 or 2 standard sizes in each type, o-ring and flare fitting.

    I assume you have cork tape over the metal pieces, usually it's black though. You need to cover all exposed metal with cork tape, or it'll sweat condensation everywhere.

    This may be a good read: http://nostalgicac.com/media/PDF/directions-ud.pdf

    Cheers,

    Ray

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem43020 View Post
    After checking it looks like the previous owner changed the expansion valve pipe and put a fitting a size bigger In it so none of the expansion valves I bought(3 of them) fit it because the end that connects to the expansion valve is one size too big. I'll either have to go with an adapter, get the pipe cut or get a whole new pipe. To disconnect the pipe inside you have to remove some yellow sticky stuff that was used to cover the pipe, does this have to be reapplied or can we go without it?
    Using a larger pipe to the expansion valve seams counter-intuitive since that line carries liquid refrigerant.

    To cover the pipes I simply used copper pipe foam insulation.
    demet

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlkrlk View Post
    Hmm, I would think any drier with the proper fittings would work, in theory.

    For the expansion valve I'd be very surprised if there were more than 1 or 2 standard sizes in each type, o-ring and flare fitting.

    I assume you have cork tape over the metal pieces, usually it's black though. You need to cover all exposed metal with cork tape, or it'll sweat condensation everywhere.

    This may be a good read: http://nostalgicac.com/media/PDF/directions-ud.pdf

    Cheers,

    Ray
    Quote Originally Posted by demetk View Post
    Using a larger pipe to the expansion valve seams counter-intuitive since that line carries liquid refrigerant.

    To cover the pipes I simply used copper pipe foam insulation.
    Thanks guys. Will do . I'll update again when I finally get it off.

  15. #115
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    I bought a similar “OEM” style drier and a couple of things I noticed about it that may or may not be the same on yours: it has the original R-12 service port so an adapter will be needed unless you are adding a high side port somewhere else.

    The original safety switch in the old drier had different threads and didn’t fit the new drier. I had planned to replace it anyway but just happened to notice the threads were different. The new switch I ordered does fit the new drier which is odd, but hey, it works.

    This is the cork tape:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/191862375621...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

  16. #116
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  17. #117
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    Just a heads up gents.

    My a/c compressor brackets are finally in if anyone wants them. These brackets were laser cut out of 1/4" stainless steel on a very cool machine. The shop owner gave me a tour of his facility and said with a smile that the machine saves him $1400 a month in electricity bills.

    I am selling these brackets at cost which currently comes to $32 shipped (paypal fees included and rounded to the nearest dollar).

    PM me if interested.

    TIA
    demet

  18. #118
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    ^^ Thank you..

  19. #119
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    How many ounces is required to refill the system, and can I get the cans off ebay such as these

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/DuPont-Suva-...dXSwV3&vxp=mtr

  20. #120
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    You can get it locally, and you surely only need 2-3 cans, not a dozen. FYI, I do have a small stash of R12, and I'd be willing to sell some. I just posted an ad on myE28.com offering some R12 in exchange for a jack and the associated bits I need for my car.
    Dean
    Lutz, FL

    '85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
    '87 Spider Veloce
    '92 Spider Veloce
    '08 350Z


  21. #121
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    Dean did you end up refilling with r12? Can I keep the standard pag oil in my sanden or would I have to change it for r12?

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcains View Post
    You can get it locally, and you surely only need 2-3 cans, not a dozen. FYI, I do have a small stash of R12, and I'd be willing to sell some. I just posted an ad on myE28.com offering some R12 in exchange for a jack and the associated bits I need for my car.
    Bought some R134 at Walmart yesterday for my DD It was like $4.89 a can
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  23. #123
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    $4.89/can at Walmart, that is cheap. Autozone is trying to get $10/can.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonym427 View Post
    Can I keep the standard pag oil in my sanden or would I have to change it for r12?
    As I understand it PAG is not compatible with R12. This site has more info about oils and it seems to be something about the oil not mixing with the refrigerant so it doesn't get circulated properly: http://www.autoactech.com/issues.htm.

    The AC sticker on the hood of my 85 says "Max Charge 2.42 lbs" of R12. For R134a the rule of thumb is 85-90% so that would be about 2-2.2 lbs. so 3 12oz cans would do it. That's maximum and what you're doing is charging until you get the proper pressures on the gauges. There is no spec since we are designing a new system by replacing the compressor, etc. but another rule of thumb out there is multiply ambient temp by 2.3 to get a ballpark high-side pressure. I'm assuming you reach a point at which the vent air temp doesn't go down anymore and then you stop charging.

    Total disclaimer, this is the first time for me working on AC so I know nothing from experience (yet!) just what I've read.

    A recommendation I saw that I hadn't seen anywhere else was to spray water on the condenser at about 2/3 of the charge which will lower the pressure by cooling it off. I don't totally get that because won't the pressure just go back up once the condenser heats up again? Maybe someone with actual AC experience can comment on that one. Here's where I read that: http://www.aircondition.com/tech/que...ing-Procedures

  24. #124
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    Mineral oil -> R12
    Ester Oil -> R12/R134/R152
    PAG oil -> R134/R152
    Last edited by hakeem43020; 08-09-2016 at 03:30 PM.

  25. #125
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    Thanks Hakeem! That was very helpful

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