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Thread: Hillclimb Racecar turbo E36 M3 Build

  1. #76
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    Awesome!
    www.prussianmotors.com '95 PT6262 330ti / '03 Maximum PSI M3t on e85 / '00 540 6spd / '01 M5 / '01 M Coupe

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    Im from PA, but came up here just to run this event.

    The turbo is running strong and at only 7 psi its pretty damn quick out of the corners! The 1 mile of dirt is down right terrifying on slicks though! Kids got to meet travis Pastrana, very nice guy. Pastrana and Higgens are unbelievable to watch.




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  3. #78
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    I used to course marshal and tech inspect for a regional Rally America event in northern Minnesota. Travis Pastrana Tanner Faust, and Ken Block raced at the time and a few other teams with national sponsorship would come as well as a bunch of local self funded teams. It was just mind blowing how fast Faust, Block and Pastrana were on dirt compared to everyone else. It was like a 200 mile rally course on logging roads and they would finish 25 minutes ahead of everybody.
    Last edited by someguy2800; 07-08-2017 at 08:52 PM.


    86 325es, 2.8L NV m50, S366, Megasquirt 2, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, T56 Magnum trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    I used to course marshal and tech inspect for a regional Rally America event in northern Minnesota. Travis Pastrana Tanner Faust, and Ken Block raced at the time and a few other teams with national sponsorship would come as well as a bunch of local self funded teams. It was just mind blowing how fast Faust, Block and Pastrana were on dirt compared to everyone else. It was like a 200 mile rally course on logging roads and they would finish 25 minutes ahead of everybody.
    Heck yeah, those guys skills are from another planet!

    Weekend was successful, nothing broke and the car ran flawlessly...plus I didnt crash!

    Im still trying to gather all my videos and pictures for a full report.

    Also I am ready to turn up the boost and by throwing in a different wastegate spring in the external gate (internal still has a 14psi...but i cant get to it if I wanted to change it, lol). It may sound crazy but I am so over spending money and time on this car I dont even want to purchase and install a boost controller and will just run on wastegate spring until I gain some more motivation.

    What is a safe pressure to run on a S52 stock bottom end with spacer and cutring? With a 7 psi spring it seems to initially spike up to 10 PSI then taper down to 7 at higher RPM. So I was thinking a 12-14 spring should be safe and about 400-450 whp? When it spikes it will also finally open my internal gate so hopefully it wont spike to much higher...well that was kind of the point of having both gates, we will see.
    96 328i ITR Racecar
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  5. #80
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    Die you have any problems with turbo lag? Or did it respond well like everybody said?

  6. #81
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    I have never driven a turbo e36 other than this car I just built so I dont have much to compare to other than my supercharged car from last year. I will say that the on/off throttle response with this turbo is excellent. Flying down a windy third gear chicane section that required constant on/off throttle feathering, the boost was always there when needed. The first few runs I thought the car felt sluggish exiting slow 2nd gear corners but I think this was because the RPMs were too low and combined with the low compression it felt slow. I just needed to relearn how to drive it and make sure to keep the revs about 3500 and it was always in boost and responsive.
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  7. #82
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    Im gonna head to the dyno on saturday so I can play with turning up the boost. Id like to be prepared and order either a manual controller or different wastegate springs. What PSI should I shoot for, for about 450-475 whp on my 9.0:1 s52 with 3" exhaust? I am kind of hung-up on running on wastegate only for some dumb reason because I think it might be a bit more linear as some pressure is bled off approaching the spring pressure...or is that a dumb idea? Is there any other method of reducing torque and increasing horsepower to save my stock bottom end?
    96 328i ITR Racecar
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  8. #83
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    A boost controller can adjust boost by RPM and gear. The more RPM the more boost which is easier on the bottom end as you can start smaller and keep the tq curve flat by increasing boost. You can also reduce boost in lower gears to save the drivetrain, ect.
    -Nick
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  9. #84
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    Great Job. car looks sick!
    1998 CES Turbo M3 Nick G tuned 692.87 Whp 625.68 Wtq @20.78 Psi. 93 octane & 50/50 water Meth

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM3 View Post
    Great Job. car looks sick!
    Thanks!


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  11. #86
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    Went to the dyno on Saturday. It runs good an makes power but there is a nasty boost spike right when boost hits. I am currently just using a Turbosmart manual boost controller so maybe that is the problem. The manual controller has a restricted orifice on the inlet barb that is RIDICULOUSLY small diameter, like 1 mm or less. How the heck can enough flow go through that tiny orifice and then move two wastegates? I guess I need to pony-up and actually purchase a EBC....I guess?





    The run above was at about 14 PSI, but it would spike really hard at about 3600 RPM to 21-23PSI



    The run above is the same 15 psi setting but you can see the wheels spun at the spike.






    This was the first run after adding a few turns to the boost controller. Boost to 14 and settling to 10pSI





    The graph above is from one of the 500hp runs, spike to 21-22 then settling at 14psi.


    https://youtu.be/vUjDwQ-LnOk


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    Last edited by bimmerbumm193; 07-25-2017 at 04:26 PM.
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  12. #87
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    How much boost for that dyno run?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rajicase View Post
    How much boost for that dyno run?
    15 psi for the 500 hp run, i was adding text while you replied.


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  14. #89
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    What gearing are you currently running?

    Numbers look solid, would love to see what it could do on e85!

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    Are you concerned with how fat the afrs are?


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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerbumm193 View Post
    Went to the dyno on Saturday. It runs good an makes power but there is a nasty boost spike right when boost hits. I am currently just using a Turbosmart manual boost controller so maybe that is the problem. The manual controller has a restricted orifice on the inlet barb that is RIDICULOUSLY small diameter, like 1 mm or less. How the heck can enough flow go through that tiny orifice and then move two wastegates? I guess I need to pony-up and actually purchase a EBC....I guess?


    The graph above is from one of the 500hp runs, spike to 21-22 then settling at 14psi.


    https://youtu.be/vUjDwQ-LnOk


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    It looks like you're running some sort of standalone ECU? Why not just use it for boost control?

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  17. #92
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    Hillclimb Racecar turbo E36 M3 Build

    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    It looks like you're running some sort of standalone ECU? Why not just use it for boost control?
    Nah, using the stock MS41 with Technica tune


    Are you concerned with how fat the afrs are?

    I have concern but not sure if they are too lean or too rich. I used my wideband sensor and connected it to the dyno. Since we couldnt have the sensor connected to my logging AFR gauge and the dyno I did one 10 PSI run to get some data on my guage and the rest with the sensor connected to the dyno to give the AFRs on the dyno plot. The picture of the AEM data at 10 PSI shows the afrs sloping down to 10.5 but if you look at the dyno plot (look at pic below) the AFRs actually start lean and slope down to 11.5. Now this isnt comparing apples to apples because of the diffrent boost pressures so I dont know if is something to be concerned about or if it is because we plugged in my sensor to a different machine and they are not calibrated together.



    What gearing are you currently running?

    Numbers look solid, would love to see what it could do on e85!

    Thanks, yeah E85 would be great...but one step at a time, lol. I am running the stock 3.23.
    Last edited by bimmerbumm193; 07-26-2017 at 08:21 AM.
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  18. #93
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    BTW - are you sure the IWG is EXACTLY centered on the bracket? When I first installed my EFR, I had the WG slightly off center, and figured no big deal. Ran fine when cooler, then when things heated up, the WG rod would catch on the bracket and make it spike before it got enough force to open it. I clocked things to get a better angle on the WG rod and problem was solved.


    But yea, if the MBC is a ball and spring valve, it will tend to have lots of overshoot as you come into boost. EFRs respond so quickly down there, it tends to magnify the problem.


    Are you hearing both WGs open at about the same time, or does it sound like one is delayed when you get the spike?

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerbumm193 View Post

    I have concern but not sure if they are too lean or too rich. I used my wideband sensor and connected it to the dyno. Since we couldnt have the sensor connected to my logging AFR gauge and the dyno I did one 10 PSI run to get some data on my guage and the rest with the sensor connected to the dyno to give the AFRs on the dyno plot. The picture of the AEM data at 10 PSI shows the afrs sloping down to 10.5 but if you look at the dyno plot (look at pic below) the AFRs actually start lean and slope down to 11.5. Now this isnt comparing apples to apples because of the diffrent boost pressures so I dont know if is something to be concerned about or if it is because we plugged in my sensor to a different machine and they are not calibrated together.
    Analog 0-5V outputs are very, very sensitive to ground connections... so the answer is, it depends on how it was connected to the dyno computer/stack. Also was the calibration of the analog input done correctly?

    In any case the data on the gauge itself should be more accurate than the analog out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Analog 0-5V outputs are very, very sensitive to ground connections... so the answer is, it depends on how it was connected to the dyno computer/stack. Also was the calibration of the analog input done correctly?

    In any case the data on the gauge itself should be more accurate than the analog out.
    I agree that the my gauge is probably more accurate. I didnt use the gauge output 0-5v, we connected the sensor directly to his dyno using the sensors plug since they used the same plugs.


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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Def View Post
    BTW - are you sure the IWG is EXACTLY centered on the bracket? When I first installed my EFR, I had the WG slightly off center, and figured no big deal. Ran fine when cooler, then when things heated up, the WG rod would catch on the bracket and make it spike before it got enough force to open it. I clocked things to get a better angle on the WG rod and problem was solved.


    But yea, if the MBC is a ball and spring valve, it will tend to have lots of overshoot as you come into boost. EFRs respond so quickly down there, it tends to magnify the problem.


    Are you hearing both WGs open at about the same time, or does it sound like one is delayed when you get the spike?
    Oh boy, you had to bring up the wastegate bracket, what a pain in the butt! In order to run the piping over the subframe i had to modify the wastegate bracket to make room for the outlet eblow. I knew its alignment was very important so once i clocked the turbo I knew I had X amount of space to work with and painstakingly spot welded, installed, checked alignment, and repeated that process until I got it aligned where it could actuate properly. But may I should recheck it. I have about 1-2 degree of movement that I can reclock to the center section to possibly relieve some sideways tension(if its there) on the wastegate arm. But Im gonna try some other things first as I think I have to take the engine out to do that!

    The manual boost controller is a turbosmart, which I believe is a bleed type. It does have a ball and spring in there but that is just for the "overshoot" tuning. I tried it with the ball and spring in and out and it didnt make a difference.

    I personally cant tell when both wastegates open as the car is so freaking loud. Jacob mentioned to me in a PM that the cracking pressure of the 14PSI IWG is lower than the set pressure. So when I was running on just wastegate spring the gate would open at 10 and then taper to 7 partially because I only had two turns of preload the IWG. This means the EWG was not opening at all at that point. Once I added the MBC and shot for 14-15psi it spiked way higher, but maybe lowering the EWG spring would help as the set pressure was so close to the EWG spring pressure.

    I think I need to try some things first before I get back to you guys. One is shorten the line to the EWG, its probably 6 feet long because I was trying to avoid going close to the manifold. Maybe lower the EWG spring from 14 to 7 while using the MBC. Then order and install a EBC. Maybe fiddle with the IWG preload or try to see if it is binding like Jacob said.





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    Last edited by bimmerbumm193; 07-26-2017 at 10:10 AM.
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  22. #97
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    Just saw your car in the Hoonigans drivers wanted special at Mt. Washington.

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  23. #98
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    I also clearanced the WG bracket middle hole some with a die grinder to open it up a tad. Not sure why it's so tight other than I guess they really don't want someone installing the WG actuator with side load on it which will shorten its life.

  24. #99
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    Hillclimb Racecar turbo E36 M3 Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Def View Post
    I also clearanced the WG bracket middle hole some with a die grinder to open it up a tad. Not sure why it's so tight other than I guess they really don't want someone installing the WG actuator with side load on it which will shorten its life.
    Thanks for pointing that out. I guess i will put the car on the lift and slowly apply compressed air to the actuator and watch it work to make sure it moves smoothly. Then i guess i have to heat it up and try it again.

    Does anyone have anything bad to say about the Apexi Avc-r controllers? It seems u can get them used for 250 and they have VSS based boost by gear that i think would benefit me.


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  25. #100
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    Hacking up your engine harness is a big negative for the install.

    I know I harp on this a lot here, but I think it's better to just go standalone when doing an aftermarket turbo build than dying a death of a million piggybacks and trying to make it all work well. I've done both, and having one box that does everything is so much nicer to deal with, not to mention safer. You can also log everything in great detail and not guess on what is going on anymore.

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