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Thread: Hillclimb Racecar turbo E36 M3 Build

  1. #151
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    Just finishing up the interior and getting ready to paint it. I ended up tieing the cage to the front of the subframe for piece of mind. Id like to thank chikenhed for the advice there....along with delaying the rest of the build by another week, lol!




    And also delaying the build was my wife who has been wanting a lift kit on her truck. Installing the kit for her should buy me unlimited garage time for myself for the remaining month before hillclimb season starts so i can get this thing done! We got a BDS kit, and i must say the hardware and instructions are excellent. Although the instructions said it would take 10 shop hours but it took me about 25! My brother in law works as an engineer at FOX shocks so we got hooked up pretty good










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  2. #152
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    Turned out ok, the titan silver interior looked better. Either way, time to thrash to get it back together!










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  3. #153
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    I think i need different wastegate springs if I want a bit more power. I had 7psi springs and used the MBC to get 15 PSI and got 500whp. If I want 600whp should I get about 10PSI springs so I can double the rate with an EBC?
    96 328i ITR Racecar
    95 M3 blk/blk - hillclimb project - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1798796 - Retired to street duty after two awesome seasons!
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  4. #154
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    You will know because your boost will be unstable ie. it will drop at high rpm. A 3 port vs a 4 port solenoid EBC set up can also make a difference on how much boost can be run.

  5. #155
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    What engine managment are you using? If you are using a standalone with traction control and boost control built in you should consider doing C02 boost control or a small air compressor. With that you can run a very small or no wastegate spring and run 0-30 psi and anywhere in between, which would be really effective if you integrate the boost control into the traction control strategy.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    What engine managment are you using? If you are using a standalone with traction control and boost control built in you should consider doing C02 boost control or a small air compressor. With that you can run a very small or no wastegate spring and run 0-30 psi and anywhere in between, which would be really effective if you integrate the boost control into the traction control strategy.
    I will just use my Technica tune on MS41 for now....I really really want standalone for rally style antilag and all the fancy boost control that you mentioned but i cant afford it this year. I just want to pick a spring that is close to correct because i cant change the one in the IWG without removing the engine!


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  7. #157
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    Remember guys, he's M​BC, not EBC.

  8. #158
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    We can fix that. I have an AMS-500 I’d like to sell.

  9. #159
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    Hillclimb Racecar turbo E36 M3 Build

    I have been slacking on updating this thread. Car is together and i have actually done two events already and it is running great.





    Fixing crash damaged euro oil cooler. Bolt boss broke off so i had to cut a boss off a junk m52 cooler and have it welded on.



    My steed manifold was warped so it had to be surfaced.













    The spherical bearing in my bw shifter was almost completely locked up so i had to replace it two days before my first race.











    I was thrashing on this car up until the night before the first event. My homebuilt motor had about 9 street miles on it before i went full send at the event, and honestly my expectations were low because I rushed the entire process....but it held together and it is a blast to drive!
    I am however a little gun-shy with racing since my crash and i did get faster at my second event, but i am still off the pace of my ls powered competitors. I just need a few more events to put my purse down and grow a set again


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    Last edited by bimmerbumm193; 07-21-2019 at 08:23 PM.
    96 328i ITR Racecar
    95 M3 blk/blk - hillclimb project - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1798796 - Retired to street duty after two awesome seasons!
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  10. #160
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    Hillclimb Racecar turbo E36 M3 Build

    Doublepost
    Last edited by bimmerbumm193; 07-21-2019 at 08:07 PM.
    96 328i ITR Racecar
    95 M3 blk/blk - hillclimb project - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1798796 - Retired to street duty after two awesome seasons!
    2002 325XiT - daily


  11. #161
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    YES! Excellent job sir. Looks wonderful.
    95 turbo 330ti. 01 maxpsi m3 e85. 01 m5. 01 m coupe. 03 AIM 996t e85. 06 x3 w/Meyers plow and winter daily. Prussian Motors is hiring!! prussianmotors.com/jobs
    Current e39t LS Turbo swap: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...LS-e39-Touring

  12. #162
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    How concerned do I need to be with a afr of 10.1 at WOT? I was in such a rush to get the car done, i only did a few pulls to make sure it wasn’t lean, but at Duryea Hillclimb there is a straight where you can hit 150mph in 5th so it was the best data i have so far at it is really rich.



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    95 M3 blk/blk - hillclimb project - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1798796 - Retired to street duty after two awesome seasons!
    2002 325XiT - daily


  13. #163
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    That could be your sensor/AFR controller pegged at the richest that it will read/report to your EMS. It could in fact be richer than that which would eventually be a problem.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    That could be your sensor/AFR controller pegged at the richest that it will read/report to your EMS. It could in fact be richer than that which would eventually be a problem.
    As far as i can tell the sensor reads even lower so i dont think its pegged. If the sensor is not pegged, is 10.1 rich enough to wash the cylinder walls and damage it? The car runs perfect and i would hate to mess with it, but i also dont wont to damage anything that i spent so much time and money on.


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    96 328i ITR Racecar
    95 M3 blk/blk - hillclimb project - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1798796 - Retired to street duty after two awesome seasons!
    2002 325XiT - daily


  15. #165
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    Hillclimb Racecar turbo E36 M3 Build

    Well the hillclimb season is over and I am looking for some turbo related advice for next year. I am running a 87mm 9:1 S52 with the Steedspeed manifold and a 8374EFR. I run boost by gear and even in high gears I am only running about 14-16PSI and estimating about 525WHP. The car drives great at the events and routinely hits the highest or close to highest top speeds on the straights out of 80-100 cars, but a hillclimb is not a drag race. I am loosing time in slow second gear corners waiting for the turbo to spool and am ending up 8th or 10th place. As fast as this twinscroll EFR spools and hits I need it to happen a little earlier. I am looking for advice on how to make this happen whether is be smaller turbo, higher compression, antil-lag, etc. This video is an example of a tight corner where you can here the car dogging then take off, if it can come in a little bit earlier it would make a big difference. I have tried going from a 3.23 diff to a 3.46 and it didn't really help. What would be the most cost effective solution?

    1. Smaller turbo - This would only require purchasing the turbo and slapping it on there, but which one? A 8374EFR can make 650 or more on a S52, so if I only need 550whp and earlier spool, what would be a good choice? This option would just be the cost of the turbo and maybe making a new down pipe.


    2. Raise compression - I have a built bottom end with 9:1 JE pistons and run race gas. I think raising compression would be best bet if cost was no issue, but I dont really want to build another motor! Are the tolerances close enough when they manufacture pistons that I could order 10:1 87mm JE pistons and they would match exactly my bored block? I do not want to run E85, but racegas on 10:1 might give me that extra little bump in spool, right? This option would cost a new head gasket and pistons (if it is possible to just swap them without machine work?) but a ton or work.


    3. Tuning? Is is possible to get a new tune to help spool at a lower RPM with ignition timing or even messing with cam timing?. This would be by far the easiest for me. Maybe this would be a good reason for me to finally go standalone for the ease of tuning.


    4. Can I have the best of both worlds, keep the 8374 and rip to 600whp but have rallly anti-lag to help with the slow corners? I read that the secondary air injection method is much better than the throttle kicker method so I would use the Turbosmart antilag valve and plumb the air injection lines into the steedspeed manifold. This would require going standalone, then getting a regular tune, then once that is working, tune the antilag = expensive. Also I read that anti-lag on an engine with hydraulic lifters can cause problems, but I dont know?

    Here is video of a slow corner:






    Here is some data of that corner. Mid corner, off throttle RPM is 3600, then hitting the throttle is starts making boost, but it feels like there is decent lag and it makes full boost (in second gear 10 PSI) by 5100. This is the area I need more response.
    Last edited by bimmerbumm193; 10-06-2021 at 09:33 AM.
    96 328i ITR Racecar
    95 M3 blk/blk - hillclimb project - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1798796 - Retired to street duty after two awesome seasons!
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  16. #166
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    Without some form of ALS, you're probably limited to turbo size changes and or anything related to the turbo system to reduce lag time. Increasing CR would help somewhat, but for sure is a much larger cost - especially if the motor is together now and running well.

    Downpipe/exhaust combo (larger), IC/pipework changes (smaller, shorter, more efficient core), change turbo (downsize) and/or turbine housing if possible.

    What type of boost control are you using, how well is it programmed, is it PID? Does it keep the solenoid @ 100% during spool? Until what point, and how much overboost do you have or can you contend with.

  17. #167
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    Revs, I'm running an M52 now. Reving to 8100ish... you'll never fall out of power if you can stay in the meat. You'd have to probably change to like E46 M3 gearing then youd be in the top of second. I honestly dont think there's any magic tricks to make power below 3400rpm on these. Just add revs, shorter gears.

    I'm headed to highway 129 at the end of this month, wich is probably a slower road than your hill climbs. Ill report back if it is useable or junk lol.
    Last edited by Mklock; 10-06-2021 at 01:39 PM.

  18. #168
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    Gosh.. I've been out of the game for a while. Is your Steedspeed a t3 or t4?
    95 turbo 330ti. 01 maxpsi m3 e85. 01 m5. 01 m coupe. 03 AIM 996t e85. 06 x3 w/Meyers plow and winter daily. Prussian Motors is hiring!! prussianmotors.com/jobs
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  19. #169
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    Are you regularly spinning the motor to the top of the RPM band? Would it kill the performance to shift at 6,500 or so? I'd suggest that a smaller turbo is the way to go if you can sacrifice the top end power a bit. On my current build, I'm going with a 2L Honda K20 motor with a twin scroll EFR7163. I'm expecting a lot more low end boost response that what you're experiencing. However, I'm building an 11:1 motor and the Honda cylinder head flows a bunch better than the M50 based heads. HP targets are 475whp at about 18psi on 93 octane pump gas and 525-550 at 20-22psi on E85. You could probably hit the same power levels on race gas as what I'm expecting on E85.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    Are you regularly spinning the motor to the top of the RPM band? Would it kill the performance to shift at 6,500 or so? I'd suggest that a smaller turbo is the way to go if you can sacrifice the top end power a bit. On my current build, I'm going with a 2L Honda K20 motor with a twin scroll EFR7163. I'm expecting a lot more low end boost response that what you're experiencing. However, I'm building an 11:1 motor and the Honda cylinder head flows a bunch better than the M50 based heads. HP targets are 475whp at about 18psi on 93 octane pump gas and 525-550 at 20-22psi on E85. You could probably hit the same power levels on race gas as what I'm expecting on E85.
    I do spin it to redline often, but I guess I could shift a little quicker. I wouldnt mind a slightly smaller turbo, but it seems there is a gap in the sizes. For example I dont need a 700whp GT35ish sized turbo such as my 8374, but the GT30ish sizes seem too small for a 3.2 L. Isnt there a 550WHP turbo for a 3.2 L that can run to redline? What if I get rid of the divided housing in favor of a GTX35 with a smaller hotside? Would the lose of twinscroll be offset by a smaller AR?
    Oh and my friend that I run with has a Civic SI that is superfast and works extremely well for the hills. I am quite jealous of his powerband. He has a K24a2 at 10.6:1 with a GT3076r with 0.81 AR and it spools instantly and pulls to 8k. When he exits the tight 2nd gear turns he rolls into the throttle and is accelerating SO much quicker than I am. We end up with almost identical times because my car is faster but his is quicker.

    Quote Originally Posted by bubela View Post
    Gosh.. I've been out of the game for a while. Is your Steedspeed a t3 or t4?
    T4 divided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mklock View Post
    Revs, I'm running an M52 now. Reving to 8100ish... you'll never fall out of power if you can stay in the meat. You'd have to probably change to like E46 M3 gearing then youd be in the top of second. I honestly dont think there's any magic tricks to make power below 3400rpm on these. Just add revs, shorter gears.

    I'm headed to highway 129 at the end of this month, wich is probably a slower road than your hill climbs. Ill report back if it is useable or junk lol.
    I went from a 3.23 to a 3.46 and it didnt really help, even though I was higher in the revs the delay in spool was the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Without some form of ALS, you're probably limited to turbo size changes and or anything related to the turbo system to reduce lag time. Increasing CR would help somewhat, but for sure is a much larger cost - especially if the motor is together now and running well.

    Downpipe/exhaust combo (larger), IC/pipework changes (smaller, shorter, more efficient core), change turbo (downsize) and/or turbine housing if possible.

    What type of boost control are you using, how well is it programmed, is it PID? Does it keep the solenoid @ 100% during spool? Until what point, and how much overboost do you have or can you contend with.
    I am using a Cortex boost controller, it is pretty capable, but have not messed with any of the features really. I need to spend some time on the dyno and have someone tune it that knows what they are doing. The controller does have "spool" settings that you are asking about. I have not enabled them, so maybe the solenoid is not 100% like you are suggesting. It is so hard to tune this car because it is an obnoxous, loud racecar and I cant really be driving around on the streets doing full throttle pulls. I was hesitant to try the spool settings because the manual says there is more of a chance of spiking and I already have that problem once I start to get over 12 PSI. What do you mean overboost, like a spike?

    I have a three inch downpipe to three inch exhaust with zero mufflers. Would 3.5" make a difference?

    Also, I think I only have 7 PSI springs in the gates, so maybe it would spool better with a higher poundage? I like only having 10psi or so in second gear though, so maybe I could increase it to 10 or maybe even 12.
    96 328i ITR Racecar
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  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerbumm193 View Post
    Oh and my friend that I run with has a Civic SI that is superfast and works extremely well for the hills. I am quite jealous of his powerband. He has a K24a2 at 10.6:1 with a GT3076r with 0.81 AR and it spools instantly and pulls to 8k. When he exits the tight 2nd gear turns he rolls into the throttle and is accelerating SO much quicker than I am. We end up with almost identical times because my car is faster but his is quicker.
    That's the type of spool/boost response I'm shooting for with my build: I'll only be 2L, but 11:1 compression, E85 (extra ignition timing) and the twin scroll. Will be using a dual port wastegate actuator and a 4 port boost solenoid. They can help keep the wastegate closed at the bottom of the rev range to promote spool. And a stiffer wastegate spring can help too.

    I have no personal experience with this, but they say a larger downpipe/exhaust can help spool the turbo harder.
    Last edited by jakermac; 10-12-2021 at 02:06 PM.

  22. #172
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    Mcoupemindy (IIRC) Johnathan Thayer uses a T3 with great results. If you do go different turbo route.. a T3 manifold would also help significantly. I wish I had gone with a T3 a dozen years ago with my e36 build.
    95 turbo 330ti. 01 maxpsi m3 e85. 01 m5. 01 m coupe. 03 AIM 996t e85. 06 x3 w/Meyers plow and winter daily. Prussian Motors is hiring!! prussianmotors.com/jobs
    Current e39t LS Turbo swap: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...LS-e39-Touring

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubela View Post
    Mcoupemindy (IIRC) Johnathan Thayer uses a T3 with great results. If you do go different turbo route.. a T3 manifold would also help significantly. I wish I had gone with a T3 a dozen years ago with my e36 build.
    Remember how Jays S52 spooled? Oh man.

  24. #174
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    Something that would help the low end would be to use the m52 intake manifold, not the larger M50.
    WOT

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsvturbo View Post
    Something that would help the low end would be to use the m52 intake manifold, not the larger M50.
    If this works it would be awesome, it is basically free and easy to try at least (although i did just throw two m52 manifolds in the trash so I would have to buy one, lol.) Does anybody have experience with this? I wonder how much it would choke up top?


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