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Thread: Looking into making an MSPNP Pro for the M50 and M52 engines

  1. #151
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  2. #152
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    OK, I spoke with the boss and our engineering team on this one, and here's what we came up with. There's currently a number of high priority projects that the boss did not want put on hold, and we are in the process of getting ready to move to a different building as well. So we've penciled this one in for fourth quarter this year, barring any unexpected disasters. My BMW will likely be sold by then (and I couldn't persuade the boss to buy it from me), so we'll need to line up a test car - we've got a local racer we are reaching out to, but it may help to have a back up test car available. We'll open up the deposits when we are ready to start actually laying out the board. There is going to be a bit of work going on in the meantime, as we will be testing out an OBD2 cam sensor to see what it will take to support them or if we're better off packaging these with an OBD1 cam sensor conversion. The good news is that the cam sensor looks like it is going to be the only real potential hurdle. Our goal is to determine exactly what we'll do for the cam sensor and other question marks before we take deposits.

    One other thing - it looks unlikely we will be able to support automatic transmissions, at least on the first release. I figure that won't bother most people here, but if that's a deal breaker, let me know.

    That Q4 estimate is with 11 people on the group buy. I've already been impressed with how quickly people have been signing up for this one; he said that if we can get 20 or 25 people signed up and we see the market is even bigger than we expected, that'll give this a massive bump in priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fender13Bender View Post
    Will you be doing OBD1 as well even though there aren't 10 in the group?
    Possibly - if the OBD1 doesn't manage to get 10 sign-ups, we might get it launched anyway if the OBD2 version sells well. We'll have to see.
    Matt Cramer
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  3. #153
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    All I'm hearing is more hype = more sooner. haha
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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by somebody5788 View Post
    All I'm hearing is more hype = more sooner. haha
    Yep. Or more money = more sooner. We're now at 5 OBD1 sign ups and 11 OBD2 sign ups, so right now it looks like we'll get to work on the OBD2 unit once a couple other projects are complete, and then once they're out, we'll see if their sales justify launching an OBD1 model without a group buy.
    Matt Cramer
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  5. #155
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    If you guys end up needing to switch over to the obd1 cam sensor for the obd2 unit, then the only other thing that changes is the actual pin locations

    might make releasing both make more sense if you make that a requirement.
    328i Sedan Twin s366's, 6.0LS, TH400, MS3 Ultimate
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  6. #156
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    Glad to see you guys putting all of this together Matt!

    Fwiw, we just did all of the open loop boost control yesterday on my ms3x e36 using the diy solenoid and it was very easy to setup and get boost dialed in. We hold 18psi steady through 3rd and 4th, over boost setup at 19.5 psi. So anyone curious about setting up basic boost control..it is very simple.

    ..now we get to setup launch control, traction control, anti-lag, and ethanol control!
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    Best if the obd2 guys would not need to mess with the cam sensor at all. Not because its difficult to make the modification but switching back to oem ecu without any changes is important to me.

    She's built like a steakhouse but handles like a bistro

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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    I bought this one years ago. https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Manage.../dp/1932494421 It has some good info in it but honestly you would be better off just reading the tuning manuals in the megasquirt documentation. http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/...ual_1.4.1.html I promise you know more about tuning than you think you do. Once all the basic configuration is set up the only thing you really need to tune to make the car run is; The VE table, Acceleration enrichments, (takes a few minutes of street tuning) timing table (just steal one from someone else till you can go to the dyno) cranking pulse widths (just play with them till the car starts reliably at different temps) idle valve settings (defaults will probably work fine) warmup enrichment (defaults will probably work fine) Once you are satisfied with how everything is working you can start to add the extra stuff like boost control, flex fuel ect...
    I have that Greg Banish book. It answered a lot of questions for me. Money well spent in my case.

  9. #159
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    Matt couple questions

    Are all the inputs analog or digital or both? What is the process and basic time frame once you start things on your end?

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishvt View Post
    Matt couple questions

    Are all the inputs analog or digital or both?
    There are three extra analog inputs. We'll use one for an onboard barometric pressure sensor, which is going to be hardwired in, and one for the MAF - you can remove the MAF and wire other analog inputs to that channel.

    The remaining extra inputs are on/off (digital).

    If you run out of analog inputs, you can bring in more analog data over CAN.

    What is the process and basic time frame once you start things on your end?
    We'll rig up a prototype device that's basically an MS3-Pro Module wired to a DIYBOB and check it on the car to make sure all inputs and outputs work as expected. Once that checks out, we use the wiring from that to lay out a circuit board and order the circuit boards. Then we assemble a prototype using that circuit board, put it through additional checks, and dyno tune the test car to create a base map. If no problems show up on the test car, we build out enough MSPNPs to fill the group buy plus some additional units, and put them up on the website for sale.

    We expect it to take about 3 months from the start of the process to the ECUs being ready to ship.
    Last edited by Matt Cramer; 06-27-2016 at 02:19 PM.
    Matt Cramer
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  11. #161
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    I've been following and reading this thread and I would like to be put on the OBD2 list please.
    THE TIME DRAWS NEAR!

  12. #162
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    Damnit! Where are all the OBD1 guys at?!
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyCK View Post
    Damnit! Where are all the OBD1 guys at?!
    Seriously. It seems like this project is heading for pipe dreams

  14. #164
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    Please put me on the OBD2 list.
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  15. #165
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    OK, we are now at 5 OBD1 and 13 OBD2 sign ups. I'm a bit surprised we don't have more OBD1 sign ups myself. But we don't really have a time limit on sign ups, and if an MSPNP for one set of years for a particular model sells well, we often find it will do a lot to shake loose demand for the rest of the year range.
    Matt Cramer
    1997 BMW 328i convertible, 1972 Chevy C10 pickup, 1966 Dodge Dart slant six
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  16. #166
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    I'm not too surprised by the OBD2 demand. There was a big kick for a while for OBDI folks to upgrade to OBDII for better stock ECU tuning. I will have a 95 M3, which is stock OBDI, but it's converted to OBDII

    Sent from my SM-T707V using Tapatalk

  17. #167
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    I've had people asking, "What about the S50 and S52?" Here's what I have been able to find on the M3 wiring.

    S50s will be easy. They seem to have used the same ECU pinout as the other M50 VANOS motors, with only a change to the tune file. So if you have an S50, you can sign up for the OBD1 group buy no problem.

    S52s are a bit more complicated. They're similar to the OBD1 M50 ECU, but not quite identical - they seem to have more in common with a couple other ECUs, including the ones used on the M44, M62, 1996-1998 Porsche 911 non turbo, and 1997-1999 Porsche Boxster. So if you want a plug and play for anything in that family, let me know. (Note - see subsequent posts. I was on the wrong info.)
    Last edited by Matt Cramer; 06-30-2016 at 03:01 PM.
    Matt Cramer
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    BMW - where "Why doesn't everybody build cars the way they do?" meets "Why can't they build a car the same way everyone else does it?"

  18. #168
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    I didn't realize that S52s would be a potential issue. Are the M3 motors being factored into the development? Would really like this to work on my 99 M3.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Cramer View Post
    I've had people asking, "What about the S50 and S52?" Here's what I have been able to find on the M3 wiring.

    S50s will be easy. They seem to have used the same ECU pinout as the other M50 VANOS motors, with only a change to the tune file. So if you have an S50, you can sign up for the OBD1 group buy no problem.

    S52s are a bit more complicated. They're similar to the OBD1 M50 ECU, but not quite identical - they seem to have more in common with a couple other ECUs, including the ones used on the M44, M62, 1996-1998 Porsche 911 non turbo, and 1997-1999 Porsche Boxster. So if you want a plug and play for anything in that family, let me know.

    Maybe you know this, or know something i dont but

    m50/s50 are OBD1 and share the same ECU pinout

    m52/s52 are OBD2 and share the same pin out
    328i Sedan Twin s366's, 6.0LS, TH400, MS3 Ultimate
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  20. #170
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    I've confirmed that the OBD2 M52 ECU has a completely different internal pinout from the OBD2 S52 unit. Let me know if I need to change anyone's sign up category. (note - see subsequent posts; looks like this was a mistake.)

    An S50 or S52 motor running M52 electronics should not have any problem with the OBD2 MSPNP. We can put together an alternate startup map for this by rescaling it for the different injector and engine size easily enough.[
    Last edited by Matt Cramer; 06-30-2016 at 03:00 PM.
    Matt Cramer
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  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Cramer View Post
    I've confirmed that the OBD2 M52 ECU has a completely different internal pinout from the OBD2 S52 unit.
    M52 aka 328i and 328is is 100% the same pin out as the S52 in the M3 from 96-99. I'm not sure where that info you got came from. But they are the same.

    OBD2 M52/S52 are the same.

    I will be highly surprised if I'm wrong.
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  22. #172
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    yea im a little confused my self.
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  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Cramer View Post
    I've confirmed that the OBD2 M52 ECU has a completely different internal pinout from the OBD2 S52 unit. Let me know if I need to change anyone's sign up category.
    May need to check the source. I believe the S52 and M52 are the same computer other then some coding. I think you can even reflash an M52 ECU to S52 software if you know what you're doing. M50/S50 vs M52/S52 are pinned differently though.
    1997 328is - Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, DKM Organic Twin Disc Clutch, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Mishimoto Rad, Devils Own Meth, Porsche 911 calipers with E46 M3 rotors, Corsa Exhaust

  24. #174
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    Put me down for an obd2 setup but I have a couple questions. My car is an automatic with a powerglide (manually shifted) so I don't any problem there but will I be able to use the solenoid and 4.9 lsu wideband sensor from my current boost controler/wideband setup and will a racepak dash work with the ms3pro?

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  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bke36Is View Post
    Put me down for an obd2 setup but I have a couple questions. My car is an automatic with a powerglide (manually shifted) so I don't any problem there but will I be able to use the solenoid and 4.9 lsu wideband sensor from my current boost controler/wideband setup and will a racepak dash work with the ms3pro?

    Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
    Whoa, a glide!! Sorry for the off-topic, but please make a thread about this if you haven't! If you have, where is it?

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