Looking into making an MSPNP Pro for the M50 and M52 engines

[dcvee]

I ain't skeered!!

Don

[Def]

That is ridiculous. My dad built the house I grew up in but was not a carpenter. I asked him once how did you know how to build a house. He said I didn't, but I decided I wanted to do it so I went to the library and read a couple books and I built a house. I didn't know how to tune or wire or even solder a PCB when when I bought my first megasquirt kit.

So you learned how to tune before you tuned - exactly my point. Don't get a standalone and think you're going to jump right into it with no idea of what anything does. Will it takes years of study to get started? No, but I'd say at least a few dozen hours of research and study should be done before really changing many things.

For fueling calibration at steady state the auto tune is nice for sure. There is not an auto tune for ignition though which is the more difficult aspect and the one that grenades engines.

You are right though that if someone reads up on basic engine calibration theory/methodology they should be able to learn as they go without causing too much damage. Thats what I did, but I took on the project full knowing it would be a learning experience.

I agree with Def the wiring is the easy part and its a great way to learn the system and how the various I/O work.

Exactly. If you think wiring a simple E36 engine is tough, you're going to be absolutely stuck when you want to actually use any of the more advanced functions of a standalone...

It's easy to say, "Oh yea, just make sure your ignition timing is safe and you're golden" - then when a n00b opens up the software and is looking at dozens or hundreds of tables and "just" makes a little change... You ask them a few hours later what they did, and what all did it affect - they probably couldn't give you an answer. It seems crazy until you've seen it over and over.

I disagree. The wiring is going to be the difficult part for most people, mainly because you dont need to know how a coil driver works, or whether or not your crank sensor is VR or Hall, or what a pull resistor does to tune. But you do need to understand all of that to wire it properly.

Other then high load high value ignition timing and un reasonable AFR's, its going to be hard to damage a good running engine with tuning.

Im not saying anyone can do it. But if you truly understand how a turbo setup works, and you built your own car, then you qualify.

Meh, my tuning experience over the past 14 years or so says otherwise. Some people pick it up quickly, other people make a huge mess of things and wonder why they have little shiny specks on their plugs and low compression after beating on the car. Even with a knock sensor you can smoke an engine when you've got complete control over the tune...

Lol, first 20 pages are.....

"this is great, you guys will have no problem with it. Easy peasy lemon squeezy"

Last 5 pages

"You guys shouldn't be tuning the cars, you don't know what your doing. Its really tough. Takes years to get right"

Wiring and tuning are NOT hard. But that doesn't mean they're on the level of a DIY oil change like it seems some of you guys are advocating. Somebody who is "completely green" on tuning and relieved they don't have to wire it up and can just start changing values should maybe reevaluate their skill level. If you have no idea how an ECU wires up, you can still tune pretty well, but in many ways, the knowledge to do one helps immensely with the knowledge to do the other.



I still say the tuning aspect is harder than wiring, and I've done both multiple times before. If you cut the ECU connector off a stock harness and can't crimp some pins and put them in the right position, I really don't think you should jump into the standalone world. Or I guess you could pay a shop $300 to wire in a flex fuel sensor or something in the future... Which sounds asinine if you've actually taken the time to tune your own car...

[Butters Stoch]

Personally, I'm not too concerned. A whole back I installed tuner studio, and the AEM one. I was leaning to the infinity box a whole back, but stupid emission testing has been holding me back. So, this makes things easier. After screwing around for a few hours on a "example project" its pretty much all there.
If you understand how a car runs, you should be fine.
Much much easier now then it was 8 years ago.

But, it should be said that the base map that this will include is a STOCK base map. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want to pop that box in and go boosting. Should fire the car up once injectors are determined.

I'm sure our community smart ones will lay out a nice safe starting point for timing. From there, should be fun. I'm actually looking forward to this. Once dialed in, I may even dyno before and after once with TT DME and with MS3.

#50degreestimingforme

[somebody5788]

Personally, I'm not too concerned. A whole back I installed tuner studio, and the AEM one. I was leaning to the infinity box a whole back, but stupid emission testing has been holding me back. So, this makes things easier. After screwing around for a few hours on a "example project" its pretty much all there.
If you understand how a car runs, you should be fine.
Much much easier now then it was 8 years ago.

But, it should be said that the base map that this will include is a STOCK base map. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want to pop that box in and go boosting. Should fire the car up once injectors are determined.

I'm sure our community smart ones will lay out a nice safe starting point for timing. From there, should be fun. I'm actually looking forward to this. Once dialed in, I may even dyno before and after once with TT DME and with MS3.

#50degreestimingforme

The huge advantage here is that we can all learn from each other!

[dburt86]

I mean if you cant use a 18 year old e36 BMW to learn to tune, then i dont know what you could start with LOL

[MacM3]

Just couldn't wait any longer and got a deal on a used ms3pro. Im sorry, but take me off the list please.

[M3blitkrieg]

Well, I see what your saying gentlemen. But to me as a complete and utter newbie. With my goals and expectations of the build in mind. I feel that this product is kind of a no brainer. Could I build one myself, sure. Might have to do it twice, and by the time I finish this bad boy might be out on shelves. So I guess as a newbie, I kind of look at this product as a plug in device first. And then a instructable tool on top of that through how accessible and DIY friendly it is. So even at the price, its not as costly as buying some second hand tuning device designed for CIA hacking operatives and then buying maps, and blowing up a few engines. .

[M3blitkrieg]

I guess, in another month when the build gets to the point of completion where I have to front this money for this product. I will then. Hoping I font have to wait or front cash is what I'm getting at.

[someguy2800]

So you learned how to tune before you tuned - exactly my point. Don't get a standalone and think you're going to jump right into it with no idea of what anything does. Will it takes years of study to get started? No, but I'd say at least a few dozen hours of research and study should be done before really changing many things.

I learned how to tune by driving around with a dell in my lap. You don't know how to do anything till you've done it. Before I started I bought some tuning book from Amazon, read through the whole thing and determined it was all non helpful gibberish, threw that in the garbage and printed out the megasquirt manual and went outside and started messing with stuff till it ran right. My tune now is just revision 942 of that tune made in the driveway.

[Matt Cramer]

Checking in with a status update. We're now getting settled into the new building and have a few more things to unpack. Next week's big item is that we are sending several people (including myself) to cover the No Mercy drag racing in Valdosta. We should be able to pin the development schedule down soon. One we're ready to get started, I'll create a link to where to place the deposits.

[Def]

I learned plenty about internal combustion engine theory in school, so that when I started tuning it wasn't so much learning to tune as it was in how to deal with that particular platform. YMMV

- - - Updated - - -

I mean if you cant use a 18 year old e36 BMW to learn to tune, then i dont know what you could start with LOL

Oh I agree, no need to treat your car with kid gloves. But honestly, some here have weird hang ups on doing work on cars. For a while it was cracking the bottom end open. Then people got over that, then it was anything but a stock DME, then people started realizing standalones weren't the bogeyman as long as they weren't careless about it, and now it seems to be wiring up a standalone to a simple 90's era engine.

It's just weird to have hangups over some of this stuff and then be diving in to tune your custom turbo setup without any background knowledge.

[exvitermini2]

If you don't do it, you'll never learn.

Grab the bull by the horns and show him the thorns.

[EDrift34]

Checking in with a status update. We're now getting settled into the new building and have a few more things to unpack. Next week's big item is that we are sending several people (including myself) to cover the No Mercy drag racing in Valdosta. We should be able to pin the development schedule down soon. One we're ready to get started, I'll create a link to where to place the deposits.

Awesome, I'm starting to get most of my parts in. I hope this gets done soon

[maaE36M3]

I'm in for obd1

[dburt86]

I spent a bunch of time this weekend with the guys from DIY, including Matt Cramer and Jerry (the owner).

this group buy is high on the priority list but the moving into the new building slowed down the process. But it's very real. I don't wanna over step and say too much but thought I'd chime in and let you guys know this isn't smoke and mirrors and is actually very real

i won't comment on the timeline, but it's going to happen.

[wrecklessfool]

I spent a bunch of time this weekend with the guys from DIY, including Matt Cramer and Jerry (the owner).

this group buy is high on the priority list but the moving into the new building slowed down the process. But it's very real. I don't wanna over step and say too much but thought I'd chime in and let you guys know this isn't smoke and mirrors and is actually very real

i won't comment on the timeline, but it's going to happen.

So NOT vaporware is what you're saying? Good to know as I have tabled all other tuning avenues on my E30 build. The motor is being buttoned up now and will go into the car in April. Not sure what Matt can give for a timeline, but even a rough estimate would be appreciated by those of us waiting and not in the inner circle. Matt?

[dburt86]

i figured hearing it from someone besides Matt might put people's minds at ease, especially since I'm not apart of this group buy

[Butters Stoch]

i figured hearing it from someone besides Matt might put people's minds at ease, especially since I'm not apart of this group buy

I'll just go for shark edit.

[wazzu70]

I'll just go for shark edit.

+Infinity

[dcvee]

I'll just go for shark edit.

Just around the corner. Another month or so. Before you know it.

Don

[Butters Stoch]

I'm totally in no rush for this MS. So, whenever they get to it. I'm just glad they are doing it for us.

[dcvee]

Me either...I was quoting the "shark edit" fiasco.

[Butters Stoch]

Me either...I was quoting the "shark edit" fiasco.

I know.

[Matt Cramer]

Latest update: Kevin here has started a review of the E36 wiring diagrams (and other cars using Bosch electronics from these years) to make sure everything is clear to proceed. The move out of the old shop is almost complete. Not quite ready to open up the group buy, but we're getting there.

[darbyfam]

Any updates?