Any option for rear wing on my e30, style APR GT -250

[Marc124444]

Would like a bit less expensive!

Any options?

[dmw16]

There aren't a ton of real wings with properly selected airfoils. APR or Bimmerworld are pretty much it.

[eye145]

Lots of options, here are a few that I know of that make quality air foils. If you want cheap and generic then go with an ebay wing.

http://www.goodaero.com/

http://www.sneed4speed.com/e36-aero/

http://www.ajhartmanracing.com/aj-hartman-aero-1/

http://brooksmotorsport.com/

http://aeromotions.com/

http://www.djracecars.com/carbon-fib...-aerofoils.asp

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Body-Aero...8hEaAvcm8P8HAQ

[dmw16]

How much horsepower does your car have? The challenge with lower HP cars is finding a low enough drag airfoil that still gives useful downforce. Obviously on the straights you're giving up speed in exchange for additional grip so just make sure you're optimizing.

[fbirch]

Reviving an old thread here. I'm looking to replace the LTW wing on my E36 race car with something that generates more downforce. My home track (NOLA) has some fast esses (90+ MPH) where rear grip is the limiting factor for my car. Most of the cars that run near the top of their class at NOLA have significant aero. My car is set up to run ST4 NASA rules, puts down about 255 - 260 WHP (using the 7-point avg that NASA now specifies for ST) and I have an adjustable front splitter that I can probably pull out to maybe 3-4 inches at max extension.

So reading this and other threads - most of which are quite old - I'm looking for opinions on current offerings. I' aware of the following:

1. BimmerWorld V3, https://www.bimmerworld.com/BimmerWorld-V3-Carbon-Race-Wing_2.html - 66 inches wide, looks positively huge mounted on the E36. Is this likely to be too much wing for my splitter?
2. APR GT 250, http://aprperformance.com/racing-product/gt-250-adjustable-wing/ - Can be built to custom width, appears to make just a bit less downforce than the V3 at similar AOA and speed
3. Brookes ??
4. Sneed for Speed ??
5. Other ?

[Pat533i]

I love my bimmerworld wing, I ran it with just the maxv splitter and it didn’t overpower by a lot. You can run it at 0 degrees and it still makes good downforce. Check out nine lives racing too. Not a huge wing but should be a lot better than the ltw wing. Will drag a lot less too.

[SS Ball3r]

Nine lives racing makes a wing for the e30’s now. Fit and finish is great. Don't have the best pictures at the moment, but the actual end plates look great installed.

]https://www.instagram.com/p/B66cCO_nRHq/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6V2Z88Hjpd/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[fbirch]

Nine lives racing makes a wing for the e30’s now. Fit and finish is great. Don't have the best pictures at the moment, but the actual end plates look great installed.

]https://www.instagram.com/p/B66cCO_nRHq/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6V2Z88Hjpd/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Thanks for the feedback. That's a good looking wing. What is the chord length? Seems a bit shallower than the BW wing or APR. Also, the 9L website shows data that seems to correspond to the wing with no Gurney flap. Do you have a flap on yours? Also, what made you choose it over the alternatives?

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I love my bimmerworld wing, I ran it with just the maxv splitter and it didn’t overpower by a lot. You can run it at 0 degrees and it still makes good downforce. Check out nine lives racing too. Not a huge wing but should be a lot better than the ltw wing. Will drag a lot less too.

Thanks for the feedback. Do you have any pictures of your car with the V3 installed? What stanchion height did you go with?

[Pat533i]

I have the large uprights.

[fbirch]

Thanks, Pat! That looks pretty good, actually. ST4 requires the wing to be no wider than the body of the car at its widest point. Can you confirm that's the case for the V3? That top photo of your car makes it look a bit wider than the car, but I realize the perspective could be misleading. Seems as if the V3 has the deepest cord of the currently available wings. That should allow decent downforce at modest AOA. It's hard to compare the DF numbers for the three wings I'm considering (BW V3, APR GT-250, 9 Lives) because they all quote DF at slightly different speeds, and at least one (APR) quotes DF with no Gurney flap, despite the fact that a Gurney flap is included. I believe 9L also quotes DF with no GF. Makes it hard to compare apples to apples.

One more question: Did you do anything to hard mount the rear deck lid to the body of the car, or do you just let the downforce press on the lid gasket?

[SS Ball3r]

Thanks for the feedback. That's a good looking wing. What is the chord length? Seems a bit shallower than the BW wing or APR. Also, the 9L website shows data that seems to correspond to the wing with no Gurney flap. Do you have a flap on yours? Also, what made you choose it over the alternatives?

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I ordered their 1/2" gurney flap with the wing, although they offer a 1/4" and 3/4" option as well. They have some data on the site that shows CFD data with the various gurney flaps and angles of attack: https://9livesracing.com/pages/cfd-testing

I have no idea wat the chord length is, I'm a bit of a novice at these types of things. One of the biggest reasons I chose this wing is they offered real data, they seem to be pretty popular on track driven miatas so I knew the wings actually produce downforce, and the pricing is good. The other thing is I couldn't find any other vendor data on e30 specific kits and didn't want to be a Guinea pig on a $1k+ item. The guys at the shop are super responsive and answered all my questions before I placed my order. Fit and finish was great, although I plan on painting or powder coating the air foil.

[fbirch]

I ordered their 1/2" gurney flap with the wing, although they offer a 1/4" and 3/4" option as well. They have some data on the site that shows CFD data with the various gurney flaps and angles of attack: https://9livesracing.com/pages/cfd-testing

I have no idea wat the chord length is, I'm a bit of a novice at these types of things. One of the biggest reasons I chose this wing is they offered real data, they seem to be pretty popular on track driven miatas so I knew the wings actually produce downforce, and the pricing is good. The other thing is I couldn't find any other vendor data on e30 specific kits and didn't want to be a Guinea pig on a $1k+ item. The guys at the shop are super responsive and answered all my questions before I placed my order. Fit and finish was great, although I plan on painting or powder coating the air foil.

Thanks you! I couldn't find that data when I originally looked. Comparing to the BW V3 at 100 MPH, the one data point where data exists for both wings with flaps included, it looks as if they are right on par in terms of down force. Maybe a bit less drag for the 9L wing, but a negligible difference considering the drag od the vehicle itself.

I just got back from visiting a friend who tracks a K24 Miata and just purchased an APR wing for it. That wing is a work of art! I need to see if I can find some APR data that includes the Gurney flap as well.

[JPJ]

I have been happy with Nine Lives also. Didn’t have a flap last year but have the 3/4” on order. At 9 degree AoA felt like it could still use more rear downforce (4” splitter). Should be able to reduce the angle and fine tune after the flap is on.

Going from memory, but think the chord length is 8.5”.

[Pat533i]

Thanks, Pat! That looks pretty good, actually. ST4 requires the wing to be no wider than the body of the car at its widest point. Can you confirm that's the case for the V3? That top photo of your car makes it look a bit wider than the car, but I realize the perspective could be misleading. Seems as if the V3 has the deepest cord of the currently available wings. That should allow decent downforce at modest AOA. It's hard to compare the DF numbers for the three wings I'm considering (BW V3, APR GT-250, 9 Lives) because they all quote DF at slightly different speeds, and at least one (APR) quotes DF with no Gurney flap, despite the fact that a Gurney flap is included. I believe 9L also quotes DF with no GF. Makes it hard to compare apples to apples.

One more question: Did you do anything to hard mount the rear deck lid to the body of the car, or do you just let the downforce press on the lid gasket?

It is not any wider than the car I double checked. I had to make my own endplates (easy) beacuse the ones that came with were 14 inches long, not legal in tt4/st4. (might be now, not sure) The wing is 12 inches and I just had some sheet metal cut to that. No reinforcement to the trunk, You can kindof see in the pics where it pushed down a little, but thats where it settled to.

The year I added it I hadn't changed anything else to the car besides adding aero. I could still see the same back straight speeds at the glen. Not much drag at all, and that was like 1-2 AOA

[fbirch]

I have been happy with Nine Lives also. Didn’t have a flap last year but have the 3/4” on order. At 9 degree AoA felt like it could still use more rear downforce (4” splitter). Should be able to reduce the angle and fine tune after the flap is on.

Going from memory, but think the chord length is 8.5”.

Thanks for the info. From the pics I've seen, it looks to have a bit less chord than the APR 250 or the BW V3. It's amazing they can get so much low speed down force from it. Did yours come with the uprights that mount to both the top and rear of the boot lid? Also, are you stanchions solid or truss-like?

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It is not any wider than the car I double checked. I had to make my own endplates (easy) beacuse the ones that came with were 14 inches long, not legal in tt4/st4. (might be now, not sure) The wing is 12 inches and I just had some sheet metal cut to that. No reinforcement to the trunk, You can kindof see in the pics where it pushed down a little, but thats where it settled to.

The year I added it I hadn't changed anything else to the car besides adding aero. I could still see the same back straight speeds at the glen. Not much drag at all, and that was like 1-2 AOA

Thanks for the info. It looks as if it has a nice deep chord in the photos. All else equal, it should be able to generate good down force at modest AOA. There are some cup cars and even a GT3R at my local track, and they have foils with deep chords.

What kind of impact do you think it has made to your lap times?

I also measured my car this evening, and it appears to be just about 66-67 inches at the widest point in the rear.

[DaveITB1]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I am looking at adding aero too, and want to know from those that made the jump: Did you change spring rates front/rear after adding aero b/c the handling characteristics changed? Thanks. Dave

[fbirch]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I am looking at adding aero too, and want to know from those that made the jump: Did you change spring rates front/rear after adding aero b/c the handling characteristics changed? Thanks. Dave

What springs do you have on your car now? My car currently has 800 lb springs on the rear. All of these wings produce roughly in the neighborhood of 200 lb of down force at 100 MPH with Gurney flaps and 5 deg AOA (much beyond that angle and their efficiency starts to roll off). So each rear spring should see about 100 lb max additional down force at the fastest speed you are likely to be cornering. As such, I don't expect the rear end to compress very much beyond what it does with the LTW wing I already have, so I wouldn't expect a spring change to be necessary.

Maybe I'll change my opinion after I try it out. If you are starting out with soft springs and no wing currently, your path forward might be different.

I'd be interested to hear opinions from others.

[Pat533i]

Thanks for the info. From the pics I've seen, it looks to have a bit less chord than the APR 250 or the BW V3. It's amazing they can get so much low speed down force from it. Did yours come with the uprights that mount to both the top and rear of the boot lid? Also, are you stanchions solid or truss-like?

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Thanks for the info. It looks as if it has a nice deep chord in the photos. All else equal, it should be able to generate good down force at modest AOA. There are some cup cars and even a GT3R at my local track, and they have foils with deep chords.

What kind of impact do you think it has made to your lap times?

I also measured my car this evening, and it appears to be just about 66-67 inches at the widest point in the rear.

At the glen Its good for about 2.5-3 seconds. Gains are going to be track dependent of course.

[fbirch]

I ordered the BW V3 with medium uprights. They're only one inch shorter than the tall uprights, and at the legal limit for BMWCCA, below the limit for NASA ST. The BW tech said I won't see any performance difference on an E36 with medium vs tall. Unfortunately they build them to order, so I have to wait several weeks. Will update this thread once I have it installed and tested.

[pMak26]

Fit and finish was great, although I plan on painting or powder coating the air foil.

They have a wrap "kit" for it:
https://9livesracing.com/collections...ost-on-fb-logo

I bought 1'x6' 3m vinyl and wrapped mine. I did just the top surface so the water wouldn't stain the aluminum all nasty-like.

[fbirch]

At the glen Its good for about 2.5-3 seconds. Gains are going to be track dependent of course.

Pat, do you have any pics of the underside of the rear decklid? Just wondering where the stanchions land relative to the bracing on the underside of the lid and how much cutting I'll need to do.

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They have a wrap "kit" for it:
https://9livesracing.com/collections...ost-on-fb-logo

I bought 1'x6' 3m vinyl and wrapped mine. I did just the top surface so the water wouldn't stain the aluminum all nasty-like.

I also plan to clear wrap the V3 before mounting it.

[fbirch]

Installed the BimmerWorld V3 wing on my E36 today. Installation was fairly straightforward. The airfoil is amazingly light and the uprights are rigid and strong. The finish is somewhat dull - BW's builder uses resin with lots of UV inhibitor and only the thickness necessary. Hopefully it'll look sexier when I wrap it with PPF.

I went with the medium height uprights, which BW recommended for an E36. The height looks just about right. One downside is that the blade will contact the rear window if I open the trunk lid all the way forward. I'll need to install a lid limiter of some kind to prevent that from happening.

**Trying Flickr
Front 4 by F birch, on Flickr

[MPWRCPE]

Looks great, you still have front side windows (glass)?

[fbirch]

Thanks. The side windows are removable drop-ins. I just put them in to wash the car prior to taking the above picture.

[MPWRCPE]

Thanks. The side windows are removable drop-ins. I just put them in to wash the car prior to taking the above picture.

Any pictures/specifics? I have a pair held in with pins and they're a PITA. Thanks!