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Thread: P0141 oxygen sensor - fault moves on swap, but not cleared on replacement.

  1. #1
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    P0141 oxygen sensor - fault moves on swap, but not cleared on replacement.

    2001 Z3 Coupe M54 E368
    Please assist with a strange situation - after swapping oxygen sensors as a troubleshooting step, the fault moved from the one bank to the other, showing where the issue is. After replacing the sensor though, the fault remains.

    I was getting these two codes:
    First P0161 02 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 2) then
    P0160 02 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 2 Sensor 2)

    I swapped the sensors, and the fault moved from bank 2 to bankl 1 - I got:
    P0141 02 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2) after 302 miles

    I then replaced that sensor (i.e. bank 1 sensor 2) with a new one, and after less than 20 miles, the P0141 repeated.

    I also got a pending P0140 02 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 2), but that cleared by itself and didn’t reappear.

    I double checked that I did replace the after-cat sensor on bank 1, i.e. on the exhaust that leads from the front three cylinders, and that the connections were good.

    Is it possible that this is happening because I now have an old and a new sensor side by side – should I replace the other old one with a new one?

    OR - the full exhaust system, headers all the way back, is after market. Is it possible, that when the after-market headers and exhaust were installed, that banks 1 and 2 were somehow swapped in the computer? – seems ridiculous. I plan to move the new sensor to the other bank, just to see what happens, but will hate to take time to do that and see that it doesn’t fix the problem.

    OR maybe the new sensor is faulty out of the box.

    I’ll appreciate your insight on any other possible causes.

    Jack

  2. #2
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Whenever I see anything aftermarket, I wonder about the quality. Are the headers catless? If so, I am surprised you were able to pass the CA smog tests. Next are there defoulers on the rear sensors?

    BTW it is always a good idea to replace both sensor at the same time.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the CA mention as it reminded me to update my location. After-market but still a standard configuration with cats, and pre- and post- cat sensors. This setup has run without this fault for almost 50,000 miles.

  4. #4
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Next I would look at the fuse for the heater circuit. This can cause issues as well, are any of the cables singed or burnt?

    Do you have something other than a pocket reader? An multi-meter by chance? I would check to see what the voltage is coming from those sensors.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

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    EXOTICS
    You are clearing the codes before each swap, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKYZZ4 View Post
    You are clearing the codes before each swap, right?
    Of course.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    Next I would look at the fuse for the heater circuit. This can cause issues as well, are any of the cables singed or burnt?

    Do you have something other than a pocket reader? An multi-meter by chance? I would check to see what the voltage is coming from those sensors.
    Everything looks normal. Voltage, yes, and resistance - I just need to look up the pin layout to do that.

  7. #7
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    Try replacing the sensor one on the bank with code. I think the ecu compares differences between the 2 to determine a fault.
    98 M3 sedan

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    Could you have misconnected the sensors?

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    Thanks - I have a spare one of those.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ben4bama View Post
    Try replacing the sensor one on the bank with code. I think the ecu compares differences between the 2 to determine a fault.
    Thanks - I have a spare one of those.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
    Could you have misconnected the sensors?
    I've checked and can't see a problem - it ran 300 miles before the code, so seems unlikely.

  10. #10
    dworthy's Avatar
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    What brand is the new one? I have seen cheap Chinese junk fail out of the box even when it comes to sensors.
    Darin
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    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
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    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
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    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    What brand is the new one? I have seen cheap Chinese junk fail out of the box even when it comes to sensors.
    Bosch. Same as the the old ones.

  12. #12
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Odd, but lets look at the front banks, are they original or have you replaced them yet?
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    Odd, but lets look at the front banks, are they original or have you replaced them yet?
    Not yet. I'll update as I make changes.

  14. #14
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Which means they are 15 years old. Even on wide-band oxygen sensors, that is getting long in the tooth. Are you over 120k yet?
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    Which means they are 15 years old. Even on wide-band oxygen sensors, that is getting long in the tooth. Are you over 120k yet?
    OK, to clarify, I have not changed any but the one, after-cat sensor while trying to resolve this - but all sensors were new about 50K ago when the after-market system was installed.

  16. #16
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Okay, got ya. I am starting to think that you will need to watch live data to see what is going on. Which will need for you to get a decent mechanic to ride in the passenger seat and see what is being reported to the DME. I wonder why the cat's were replaced in the first place, as to fix a problem that really never went away fully.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    Okay, got ya. I am starting to think that you will need to watch live data to see what is going on. Which will need for you to get a decent mechanic to ride in the passenger seat and see what is being reported to the DME. I wonder why the cat's were replaced in the first place, as to fix a problem that really never went away fully.
    Yup, live data looks like it night be the way to go eventually. The cats were replaced - headers all the way back, about 50K ago. This problem I'm trying to fix is recent.
    Last edited by jslbmw; 07-20-2017 at 06:42 PM.

  18. #18
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    Forgetting this post, I created a duplicate 5 months later.

    On there, the issue was resolved. Something simple after all. Sometime back, the post-cat sensors must have been swapped. I was trying to fix a problem on bank 2 that was actually on bank 1.

    Thanks for chiming in.
    2001 Z3 Coupe M54, E368


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