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Thread: High Speed Front End Vibration - Causes / Symptoms. Let's Discuss

  1. #26
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    Yeah man, pitman arm and there should be an idler arm, right? I haven’t checked. My 540 has been rock solid, but for the usually stupid power steering lines.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Have you jacked up the front end and try to shake the wheels to see if there’s any play?
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  2. #27
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    The shop checked for play pretty much everywhere, also for run-out and balance at all four corners. Found one (pass front) tire had a slight high-spot but nothing else. No play anywhere other than <1mm at the half shafts (w/in spec).

  3. #28
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    If you have any friends with a similar vehicle swap out the wheels/tires and see if there is any difference.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy4trains View Post
    If you have any friends with a similar vehicle swap out the wheels/tires and see if there is any difference.
    I should note, the vibration persists with both my summer wheels (18" M-Pars, staggered) and winter wheels (16" style 29's).

    Had hockey last night and the drive back was almost all at speeds where the vibration persists. I pulled off the highway and immediately stopped to check all four wheels / hubs... each cool to the touch so I am doubting wheel bearings.

    It could be in my mind, but at some slower speeds (40-50 ish) it feels like there's some kind of resistance in the car. Like you'd expect with a bearing-related issue turning past a tight spot... almost a similar feeling to driving over slight, intermittent rumble strips. Again, could be my mind playing games at this point...

    Also, the PO (confirmed in his build thread and a separate follow up email) replaced all the steering links. What I don't know is with what brand, and I suspect it was a URO or other bargain kit as we've already replaced a bunch of cheap control arms.... so I know the center link is new (~5-6k miles on it), but it could easily be an off brand.

    So in my mind, I've got it narrowed down to: cheap / worn center steering linkage, CSB(?) or driveshaft not in balance (shop inspected DS and said it looked fine, FWIW).
    Last edited by scottieducati; 05-22-2018 at 09:43 AM.

  5. #30
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    Vibration diagnostics: (as apposed to shotgun and internet guesses approaches)
    https://www.motor.com/magazine-summa...ns-march-2018/

    Quote from article:
    Each individual component in a vehicle has a frequency at which it tends to vibrate, depending on the component’s mass, size and composition. The term frequency of vibration means just that—how frequently the vibration occurs. Frequency is measured in hertz (Hz), which is a measurement of cycles per second. So a frequency of 20Hz means that the component being measured is vibrating 20 times per second. Hz can be converted to rpm by multiplying it by 60, or rpm to Hz by dividing it by 60. The frequency that causes a particular component to vibrate is called its point of resonance.
    Free App: Vibration Isolator Pro by Mecanocaucho.

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  6. #31
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    Scott, I don’t remember the P.O. installing any garbage parts into your car, I remember his thread, he had good parts going into that car.
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    Scott, I don’t remember the P.O. installing any garbage parts into your car, I remember his thread, he had good parts going into that car.
    Unfortunately not the control arm kit. It was URO and he confirmed it with me on the phone. Already replaced the 4 main front control arms w/ Lemforder, and a couple things out back.

  8. #33
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    Damn, I must’ve missed that part.
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenVA View Post
    Vibration diagnostics: (as apposed to shotgun and internet guesses approaches)
    https://www.motor.com/magazine-summa...ns-march-2018/
    Nice read, and for sure worth a shot with a smartphone app. I tune Ducati belts by frequency but have a special auditory tool to do it. From this article: "The lesson of the driveline vibration story is that there are two kinds of driveline vibrations — low-speed and high-speed. Low-speed vibrations (below 45 mph) are most likely caused by a driveshaft, because the shaft spins fast at low speeds. High-speed vibrations (over 45 mph) are usually caused by a tire or a halfshaft, because higher speeds are needed to get the frequency up to the Hz and amplitude necessary for the vibration to be noticed."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    Damn, I must’ve missed that part.
    It's all good, still happy with the car!

    The hard part (6-speed swap) was done well and I knew she was due for some engine and other maintenance.

  10. #35
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    Hey Sott, you work on Ducs??? I had been dreaming of a 1299 Panigale, but now, the V4 Panigale replaced that dream. Might be heading to the Duc Pond sometime soon.
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    Hey Sott, you work on Ducs??? I had been dreaming of a 1299 Panigale, but now, the V4 Panigale replaced that dream. Might be heading to the Duc Pond sometime soon.
    Way past my familiar vintage I'm afraid, I do what maintenance I can on 2V and 4V Desmo's, pre-998 Testastretta. Currently I have a '98 ST2 and a '92 851 vintage racer.

    New stuff is better made from a tolerance perspective, but have incredibly tight packaging for maintenance access. Something like 32 fasteners to remove the Tail off the new V4 Pani! Lots of major maintenance seems to require basically removing front ends and rear tail units, but then again the motor is kind of designed to have stuff unbolt from it...

  12. #37
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    Nice! 851! That was a cool bike! Had a ‘96 900 SP, #818. I still have a ‘99 900SS, rest of my bikes are Japanese, a 2000 Kawi ZX12R, an ‘03 Z1000, an ‘04 Yamaha R1, 2 ‘09 R6 trackday bikes, and an ‘08 CRF230 dirt bike, only ridden once... lol. So, been thinking, new bike. Either the BMW S 1000RR, or the V4 Panigale. Planning on getting rid of the track bikes, and the stupid dirt bike. Just too many things to take care of.
    Last edited by BimmrMeUpSnotty; 05-23-2018 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Stupid phone
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  13. #38
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    High Speed Front End Vibration - Causes / Symptoms. Let's Discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    Nice! 851! That was a cool bike! Had a ‘96 900 SP, #818. I still have a ‘99 900SS, rest of my bikes are Japanese, a 2000 Kawi ZX12R, an ‘03 Z1000, an ‘04 Yamaha R1, 2 ‘09 R6 trackday bikes, and an ‘08 CRF230 dirt bike, only ridden once... lol. So, been thinking, new bike. Either the BMW S 1000RR, or the V4 Panigale. Planning on getting rid of the track bikes, and the stupid dirt bike. Just too many things to take care of.
    Ha well my main street mount is a fairly modified ZRX1100, a 5th gen VFR (last of the gear drives!), a VFR400 NC30 race bike, and a Beta Xtrainer. I feel the maintenance pain as 3-4 of them aren’t rideable currently... and I have a 2 year old at home so.... oh and a siiick RD400 Resto mod that’s nearly done and needs to sell ASAP... been sitting on a lift for over a year tho.

    I have a huge 2+ car garage we built and can’t even do any car maintenance. It’s a bike shop and a few buddies bikes live here. Kind of got outta hand....
    Last edited by scottieducati; 05-23-2018 at 07:48 PM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    Ha well my main street mount is a fairly modified ZRX1100, a 5th gen VFR (last of the gear drives!), a VFR400 NC30 race bike, and a Beta Xtrainer. I feel the maintenance pain as 3-4 of them aren’t rideable currently... and I have a 2 year old at home so.... oh and a siiick RD400 Resto mod that’s nearly done and needs to sell ASAP... been sitting on a lift for over a year tho.

    I have a huge 2+ car garage we built and can’t even do any car maintenance. It’s a bike shop and a few buddies bikes live here. Kind of got outta hand....
    Always liked those ZRX 1100 and 1200’s. I used to have a ‘97 VFR750, wanted to make it look like an RC45, but never got to. Your NC30, that was the little brother of the RC30, the 750, right??? The RD400 should sell quick, everyone loves a 2 stroke. My ZX12R is worked quite a bit, has the Raptor cam kit from Muzzy, head was ported and polished, Dynojet III, full Muzzy exhaust, 6 hours on a dyno, fully remapped, stupid bike has 205 at the rear wheel, could have had way more, but I wanted the bike rideable everyday of the year, man, that bike is phenomenal. It’s been sitting, now I need to completely go over it again. Too many hobbies!
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    Always liked those ZRX 1100 and 1200’s. I used to have a ‘97 VFR750, wanted to make it look like an RC45, but never got to. Your NC30, that was the little brother of the RC30, the 750, right??? The RD400 should sell quick, everyone loves a 2 stroke. My ZX12R is worked quite a bit, has the Raptor cam kit from Muzzy, head was ported and polished, Dynojet III, full Muzzy exhaust, 6 hours on a dyno, fully remapped, stupid bike has 205 at the rear wheel, could have had way more, but I wanted the bike rideable everyday of the year, man, that bike is phenomenal. It’s been sitting, now I need to completely go over it again. Too many hobbies!
    I had a friend with an epic ZX12R build, holy warp speed battman! You know what I like about them best though? They're SMOOTH and don't want to shake themselves apart at speed.....

  16. #41
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    Exactly! I always took the 12 to ludicrous speed, ala Spaceballs, and saw plaid! That bike, was fast out of the crate, but in 2000, the fuel injection/ mapping had a nasty dead spot between 3,800 to 42 or 4300 rpm, getting into the throttle on a curve was.... interesting, past the dead zone. After the cam job, and all the dyno time re-tuning, the throttle was crisp and totally linear all the way to redline. Stupid thing was a time warp every time you got on it, which was every time I rode it. Always got up past 205-208mph, on GPS, but always ran out of road. Rob Muzzy claims the bike will do 215 with the gearing that I went with, it has a lot more, just never found a road where I could see it’s true potential. This time around, I think I’m gonna put it into more of a diet, shed some more weight, go with carbon fiber Black Mountain wheels, or maybe some magnesium Marchesini’s, there’s quite a bit more weight I could lop off I’m sure, but some of that bikes extra weight is also why it feels so stable at ludicrous speeds. They definitely got the right formula close, straight from the factory. The 14, it’s even faster, but man, I just can’t get past what an ugly bike it is!
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  17. #42
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    Fast bikes are too addictive for me. Drove my buds zx14 for a bit. Just insane acceleration. I vowed to myself never to buy such a beast.
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  18. #43
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    Who the hell are you? And what did you do with my Philly buddy from Philly???

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yeah man! After riding the 12, I hop on the R1, it feels so slow, takes forever just to get to 190... lol
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  19. #44
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    You need to find out what the frequency of the vibration is, ie- which order. With that in min one could do some fault tracing.
    My experience is that the so called "shimmy" at 70 mph (110km/h) is related to the tries not being 1005 round. That said - the vibration may appear larger if the Thrust bushings is worn or the ball-joints have some play.
    Check out the app Shimmy Diagnoser on App Store, has helped me allot to understand different types of vibrations!
    [E39 540i] - with S/C ESS kit (plus some upgrades)
    [E34 540iA] - Gone


  20. #45
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    Downloaded the vibration frequency meter for iPhone and will do a highway run soon!

  21. #46
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    Fairly consistent ~40+ Hz around 80 mph or so. Equates to 2400+ rpm, so it's pointing me away from wheels, tires, brakes, steering link, etc. and towards the driveline

  22. #47
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    So weird that these cars seem to suffer from shakes and shimmies.

    Also note that "shaking" is different from the infamous "shimmy". My shaking ('00 540i Sport) was the driveshaft and the shimmy was the thrust arm bushings ('00 AND '03 540i M-sport). I replaced the driveshaft with a remanufactured, which solved the shaking. For the shimmy, after two replacement sets of Lemforder and then Powerflex Black Track (still on the '00 and still had a slight shimmy before the Trans Failsafe that I'm working on now), I finally dropped the coin for G.A.S. Monoballs on the '03...problem SOLVED! Feels like I'm driving on glass when the road surface is smooth...

    '00 540iA Sport w/235k+ Original TCG's, Vanos and transmission.​*Trans failure at 244k+...FS Now

  23. #48
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    You got to love a final resolution that performs!
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  24. #49
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    Don’t have a shimmy. It’s all in the back.

    Looked into monoballs, May or may not try em out down the road... but already had some PF thrust bushings on hand.

  25. #50
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    I now have an intermittent vibration from around 65-80mph after replacing my thrust arm bushings. They were definitely worn out, and I replaced them with complete Meyle arms. I'm wondering if the vibration had always been there and because of the new bushings it can actually be transmitted to the steering wheel. It feels like an out of balance wheel/tire though, so hopefully an alignment and wheel balance cures it.

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