A neverending battle trying to make my E46 handle well.

[Hellmet]

Yeh it sucks, the tap was not cheap either. Oh well, if I ever have to tap something of the exact same size in the future, I have the tools now....
Although it was my first time doing this, I watched a few videos on youtube and took a lot of care while doing it, taking the tie rod off the steering rack so I had plenty of room to get the tap in straight. Probably not a lot I could really do differently.

Anyway, I think I'll take it to a shop tomorrow morning and let them figure it out as I don't have the tools or experience to start cutting into my frame rail or drilling the hole out. Finding a decent, honest shop that is willing to put the effort in to do a good job will be difficult as already shown by the fact that some garage somewhere put the subframe in, couldn't torque the bolt and though 'f*ck it, it'll be fine'. I have somewhere in mind though, so with a bit of luck I'll be able to post back and give some news, hopefully good, and my bump steer will have disappeared!

Maybe it's just placebo but the bump steer does seem worse when hitting bumps on the right side of the vehicle.... hmm.....

[Hellmet]

UPDATE:

Ok, I just got the car back from the garage, they put a bigger bolt in and from what I can tell they have done a good job. They explained everything that they did and didn't charge me a ridiculous amount. They also changed my motor mounts while the subframe was out as they were broken.

Unfortunately, my bump steer problem persists, maybe a little bit less than before but still pretty bad. So, all major suspension components are new, everything is bolted down correctly and the alignment is correct, but, I have bump steer. Wonderful. I was really hoping that this would fix it but now I have a feeling that this neverending battle really will never end.

[Hellmet]

Even though I can see most of you are devastated that my bump steer problem hasn't been resolved, or are just so damn bored of reading this thread (I'm not surprised...), I decided to do a bit of fiddling on the car this afternoon and to try and gauge what is happening when I drive over bumps, so I set up a 1.5cm (ish) thick piece of tile in my yard and started driving over it while noting exactly what happens with my steering wheel. I suppose I'm just clutching at straws here but I'll post anyway just in case anybody has any further ideas, although I'm not too hopeful!

With the steering wheel perfectly centred I proceeded to slowly drive over this piece of tile.

Forwards: Front right wheel hits and mounts the tile, the steering wheel shoots off to the right. Front right wheel dismounts the tile and the steering wheel passes the centre point and ends up pointing left.
Front left wheel does the same thing but mirrored.

Backwards: Front right wheel reverses over tile, the steering wheel shoots off to the left and stays left after dismounting.
Front left wheel reverses over tile, the steering wheel jiggles a bit and after dismounting stays facing left, just like with the right wheel.


This is probably useless information but I thought I'd post it on the off chance. As the symptoms aren't mirrored exactly from side to side, it makes me think that maybe there is one failed/broken/bent component that could be causing this. I noticed that my camber isn't the same both sides, if one wheel hub was slightly bent, could this cause bump steer?

Hellmet.

[Doge]

What issue were you having with your steering rack that it needed to be refurbed?
Forgive me if you already stated, but I don't feel like re-reading all these posts :P, is there any slop in the steering? Even after all the remediation?

[Hellmet]

A mixture of very slight clicking and throwing money at the problem. I figured that as everything else is new that the rack 'must' be the problem. It wasn't.

I have 0mm of play in the steering, The only thing I notice (as stated in a post somewhere in this thread) is that the steering is very light for the first cm of travel left or right. The wheels do turn though.

[Doge]

I really hate to bring this back up (probably for the 8th time).
With everything being new I would still want to blame the urethane. I think that the lack of deflection could be enhancing the issue.
I would have said anything other, but with no play in the steering (I think it being light is simply the age of the rack allowing tolerance play), I would think the urethanes are having an unwanted impact...But that should be the same on both sides I would imagine.

I will run a guess that, yes, a bent hub could maybe cause some steering weirdness...Not sure how a hub gets bent...When you had the front sub-frame repaired did you have an alignment re-done?

I'm just spit balling, I really have no idea BTW.

[Hellmet]

And I hate to go against friendly advice, but I just cannot believe that the powerflex bushings can be the CAUSE of this shitty steering problem. I know they are stiff so they will not hide the problem the way an OEM bush might, but they aren't the cause. Now, I could spend more money and replace my perfect condition powerflex LCAB's with OEM units, which may reduce the sensation somewhat, but if they aren't the source of the problem, the problem will still exist just muffled. I want to fix the problem, not muffle it.

I have read practically every thread relating to bump steer/steering movement on bumps/etc etc.. and there have been cases where replacing bad LCAB's with OEM units has fixed the problem, where powerflex units have also fixed the problem and various other solutions all of which I have replaced on my car with new quality parts and it hasn't fixed the problem.

I have also specificly searched for any relation between powerflex bushings and bump steer, and it just doesn't exist. Too many people (I know it's not everyone) love the feel of this material, and TRUST me, if you drove my car you would NOT love the feel. My car handles beautifully on smooth twisty roads, really, it's a dream to drive, but on uneven ground, or gravel the wheel shakes more than my penis during a rough masturbation session.


I'm aware that my situation isn't normal and that it is now very difficult for anyone to give any advice without actually driving and inspecting my car so I am going to start making some assumptions. My camber is slightly off, caster too, I had a loose subframe bolt and when I bought the car I had a wheel that was slightly buckled, so I am going to assume it has been in some form of accident sometime in it's life. I mentioned the wheel hub because I remembered the buckled wheel and thought that maybe it could be accident damaged. When the weather perks up a bit I will try and measure things (wheel hubs, subframe) and see if there is anything apparently wrong. I don't know what else to do.

I saw that on one forum a new power steering pump fixed his bump steer problem, but his pump died completely, and mine isn't showing any signs of failing. I'd hate to throw more money at something that isn't broken.
I drive a BMW because I LOVE driving but this car is really really getting on my nerves. My old E36 with destroyed everything didn't bump steer like my E46 does.

Hellmet

EDIT: If I can I'll try and upload a video while driving over uneven ground so you can see just how bad it really is. It really is very very exaggerated.

[Doge]

Only reason I bring it up again is due to a few articles I read relating to urethanes causing/exaggerating bump steer..I wasn't trying to anger you..Just researching attempting to help.
I won't bring it up again, since you know your car better.

Just use a straight edge to profile the hub..
I have a similar problem where my wheel is off by ~5degrees either way depending on the road (or where on the road) my car is tracking. In New Jersey many of our roads are counter-banked, so it slopes down toward the shoulder...My wheel compensates opposite to the banking of the road..I am at the point of looking really hard at my steering column, my wheel attachment, and my rack. Only difference is my wheel has a wee-bit of play when centered, kind of like a sloppy rack rattling the teeth.
However, I do not have any bump-steer per-say..Aside from normal I suppose.

[Hellmet]

Definitely no anger here (at least not as much as you with Bimmer Benjamin the other day), and I appreciate your researching my issue, but after a lot of researching myself aswell, I come to the conclusion that I stated in my previous post. They may well make the issue more evident than OEM bushes but I just cannot believe that they are the cause.

As to your issues, please, make a thread about them, myself and others will be more than happy to help.

If nobody else has any thoughts or things to check assuming the car has had a bump, I will go ahead and try and measure various bits and pieces when I can get the car on stands (next couple of days).

[dworthy]

Another clue I have found is you noticed that the steering is easy for the first 1/4 turn of the wheel, then it starts to get stiffer for the rest? There is a rubber bushing between the rack and the steering column, I would have a look there too.

Something else to try: Lock the steering wheel, then with the front raised, see if you can turn the wheel.

[Hellmet]

Another clue I have found is you noticed that the steering is easy for the first 1/4 turn of the wheel, then it starts to get stiffer for the rest? There is a rubber bushing between the rack and the steering column, I would have a look there too.

Something else to try: Lock the steering wheel, then with the front raised, see if you can turn the wheel.

Do you mean part No.1 or no.2? http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_0942 Part No.2 is new.
It's not loose for a 1/4 turn but maybe 2cm either way. As I stated, there is no play, it just feels looser.

Do you mean to lock the wheel as in remove the key and engage the steering lock, or turn full lock one way? Doesn't the steering lock still allow a bit of movement anyway?

[dworthy]

#2 and the CV or U-joints as well. Yes lock the steering wheel and then grab the wheels at 9 - 3 o-clock and see if you can turn the wheels While the lock will allow a little movement, see if you can observe the U-joints for play.

[sprintman]

Get the car to a pro suspension shop win a shaky hoist. See what's really going on unlike a static hoist.

[Hellmet]

#2 and the CV or U-joints as well. Yes lock the steering wheel and then grab the wheels at 9 - 3 o-clock and see if you can turn the wheels While the lock will allow a little movement, see if you can observe the U-joints for play.

Had the car on stands this afternoon and checked what you said but I cant get any movement at all out of anything. No play in any joints or anywhere.

On another note I do seem to have another symptom showing itself now though, a clicking noise when jerking the steering wheel back and forth (Not with the steering lock on obviously!!). I cannot pinpoint it exactly, but its from the rack/column area I think, and I am leaning more towards the column itself.
On realoem I see the column itself has a joint at the top, (I cannot see it from underneath the car though). http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_0942 Maybe the joint at the top of part #1 has some wear.

How do you remove this piece to check for signs of wear? After unscrewing the universal/rubber joint (Part #2) do you have to remove the steering wheel to get it out?? I can't see any DIY made for this after a quick google search.

I'm dubious as to whether this could cause my problem as there doesn't appear to be any visible play between the steering wheel and the wheels but I suppose that if it is worn in some way then it is a possibility. Any thoughts? Any tips on removal and inspection?

[dworthy]

I think that you will need to remove the airbox and the upper/lower intake boot to be able to see it clearly. In this case, you can leave the car on the ground and move the steering wheel back and forth to check for play.

[Doge]

To remove the steering guibo the lower portion of the steering column is telescopic. Just push it back into itself and it should give enough to displace it..though it may be a little stuck, as was mine when I did this.

Try and isolate the sections of the column and then have someone play with the wheel. I will be doing this for my issue, I was going to use pliers to hold the column at different areas and see where the issue ceases. Though this may be difficult for some clearance related inspection.

[dhurley34]

Like this?



This was the sound mine made when the rack was wore and needed to be regreased.

[Hellmet]

I cannot isolate the source of the noise. I can't feel any slack on the upper joint and I really can't tell yet if it's coming from the rack or the upper joint.

Like this?

Yes it is sounding similar to yours, although I have just had my rack reconditioned so it SHOULD be 'like new'. The work does have a years warranty though.
Did this problem with your steering rack have any adverse affects on handling?

I saw someone else with a noisy rack but it didn't affect his handling, he repaired it because of the annoying noise.

[dhurley34]

Did this problem with your steering rack have any adverse affects on handling?

It exaggerated an intermittent vibration that I had at 60-75mph. You could grab each end of the rack shaft and move it up and down about 1/8". After replacement, the steering was much tighter and precise.

The vibration turned out to be my replacement brake rotors. They were cheap and not balanced. Replaced them with OEM and it went away.

[Tom D]

bring this back up for the 8th time.....everything being new I would still want to blame the urethane.

.....I just cannot believe that the powerflex bushings can be the CAUSE of this shitty steering problem.

hellemt, i read your first post very carefully, the rest of this tread i just skimmed through, but i think that #1, doge is going in the right direction and #2 that you have probably never driven a car with transparent handling before.

your first post makes it pretty clear that you took a 'driver's car' that handles remarkably well and then added a whole bunch of performance parts to improve its handling even more and then you complain that it handles 'too good'. so what did you expect it to drive like, your living room couch?

with my E30 M3 i can tell at anytime exactly what each tire is doing and if one tire hits a 1/2" pebble i know that too! my suggestion to you is if you want to get rid of this "terrible experience" then start taking those upgraded parts off, including the tires! either that or buy a lexus!

[Hellmet]

hellemt, i read your first post very carefully, the rest of this tread i just skimmed through, but i think that #1, doge is going in the right direction and #2 that you have probably never driven a car with transparent handling before.

your first post makes it pretty clear that you took a 'driver's car' that handles remarkably well and then added a whole bunch of performance parts to improve its handling even more and then you complain that it handles 'too good'. so what did you expect it to drive like, your living room couch?

with my E30 M3 i can tell at anytime exactly what each tire is doing and if one tire hits a 1/2" pebble i know that too! my suggestion to you is if you want to get rid of this "terrible experience" then start taking those upgraded parts off, including the tires! either that or buy a lexus!

Unfortunately, you are wrong.

[dhurley34]

I think what's being lost in this enormous thread is that the issue was there before all the parts were replaced and all of the aftermarket parts have had a positive impact on the "bumpsteer". Before we go further, can you provide a video of what's going on? Coming from a motorsports background, people's handling definitions can vary widely.

[Doge]

I think what's being lost in this enormous thread is that the issue was there before all the parts were replaced...people's handling definitions can vary widely.

I agree with the notion of varying reporting.
Also, IIRC, the issue is asymmetric...I even made reference to this from OP's previous mention.
Let us stop casting aspersions, there has already been way too much of that in this thread...Or are we not adults?

[Tom D]

rob, I might be wrong, but I might not be. too date you haven't demonstrated anything that would indicate bump steer, take your following statement for example.

Front right wheel hits and mounts the tile, the steering wheel shoots off to the right. Front right wheel dismounts the tile and the steering wheel passes the centre point and ends up pointing left.

bump steer is a phenomenon that occurs when a wheel toes in or out while the suspension is being compressed and or rebound, but it does so without any input from the steering wheel. the fact that as your steering wheel moves as the wheel mounts and unmounts the bump would be an indication that there is no bump steer taking place.

I went back and re-read your first post and you do not say anything about your ride height so let's start there, are you at the factory height? if not and the car is lowered then that's a problem.

why are you throwing parts at the car if you feel you have bump steer? you really should be measuring how much bump steer there is, whether it's toe in or toe out and then correcting the actual cause of the problem. it's no wonder your frustrated, you must first identify the problem before you can correct it.

bump steer testing is done by setting the car at it's normal ride height with the springs and swaybars removed. then as you articulate the suspension one corner at a time you measure the toe change at certain intervals, like every 2" of compression and or rebound. ideally you want zero bump steer, but that is hard to achieve, so instead try getting as little bump out as possible (.010-.015") and never setup a car with bump in.

[Hellmet]

hellemt, i read your first post very carefully, the rest of this tread i just skimmed through, but i think that #1, doge is going in the right direction and #2 that you have probably never driven a car with transparent handling before.

your first post makes it pretty clear that you took a 'driver's car' that handles remarkably well and then added a whole bunch of performance parts to improve its handling even more and then you complain that it handles 'too good'. so what did you expect it to drive like, your living room couch?

with my E30 M3 i can tell at anytime exactly what each tire is doing and if one tire hits a 1/2" pebble i know that too! my suggestion to you is if you want to get rid of this "terrible experience" then start taking those upgraded parts off, including the tires! either that or buy a lexus!

This post is just so unhelpful I don't know where to start. Now, I understand why you didn't read the whole thread as it is indeed very long, but the fact is you didn't. I have provided plenty of information in this thread to make your post redundant. You don't know me or what I have driven, so jumping to these kind of conclusions is just not helpful. The car didn't handle 'remarkably well' and the handling is now is not 'too good', I don't want a lexus or a new couch, I just want to fix the issue that my car has. The only upgraded part that I have put on that is 'harder' or 'sportier' than stock are the powerflex bushings, and while in the future I may indeed change them for OEM bushings ....ufff I'm not going to repeat myself.

rob, I might be wrong, but I might not be. too date you haven't demonstrated anything that would indicate bump steer

I'll give you that. I am aware that my issue probably isn't bump steer in it's technical sense, I called it as such because with any bump or rut my steering wheel jerks/moves and the car changes direction. With my steering wheel dead straight sometimes I can be turning left, sometimes right depending on the camber of the road, and any bumps in the road will throw me off course. Even though I may have provided an incorrect title for the thread, my explanation of the handling issues that I have provided have (hopefully) cleared up this misunderstanding.

I went back and re-read your first post and you do not say anything about your ride height so let's start there, are you at the factory height? if not and the car is lowered then that's a problem.

I have factory ride hide height on stock sport springs.

why are you throwing parts at the car if you feel you have bump steer? you really should be measuring how much bump steer there is, whether it's toe in or toe out and then correcting the actual cause of the problem. it's no wonder your frustrated, you must first identify the problem before you can correct it.

I have not been throwing parts at the car. I have been systematically changing parts to improve the cars handling, which when I bought it was fairly appalling. As I have mentioned in this thread, all the parts replaced have had a positive impact on the cars handling, but this 'bump steer' (steering wheel jerking) has been there since the beginning and still remains.

I have been driving for years, I have owned 4 BMW's along with other makes and I have driven more cars than I can count. I am aware that I'm not a professional racing driver, but I love driving and have enough experience to know how my car should handle and I know for a fact that my car DOES have a problem.

Before we go further, can you provide a video of what's going on? Coming from a motorsports background, people's handling definitions can vary widely.

I will try and get a video in the next couple of days.

For the time being, I have identified something that is noisy (rack or column), I just need to pinpoint which it is. I couldn't 'feel' any play in the column but I couldn't actually see the joint to observe it either. Over the next few days I will try and pinpoint it, but without a helper it proves quite challenging! Oh, and to those that are still taking the effort to post in this enormous thread, thank you guys.