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Thread: A neverending battle trying to make my E46 handle well.

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doge View Post
    Your welks.

    I only mention it because I have reads some reviews that "sort-of" substantiate "negative" steering changes with the implementation of urethane.
    IMO (not that it's worth much), a tweaked frame should be visible in the alignment specs. Unless, of course, it was slight and the alignment could compensate in which case you likely wouldn't have any bump-steer...IDK...

    I would still check the steering guibo as was mentioned, it really does make a big difference if the rubber is loose around those rivets.

    I recently had some pretty severe bump steer and tram-lining with a periodic steering compensation visible in the wheel (i.e., I had to have the wheel turned 5-10 degrees counter-clockwise to go straight)...long story short, it was my terrible quality tires about to blow out and uneven wear (you already mentioned yours were newer and not wearing unevenly).
    But it does sound similar to my experience...maybe its the rims? Can you get a road-force balance performed? I know an out of balance tire can cause some weird stuff to occur and a spin balance isn't always the best (I am guessing, I am not a tyre tech).
    Quote Originally Posted by dhurley34 View Post
    OP, when you say the universal joint in the steering column was replaced, are you referring to the rubber coupling or the actual collapseable steering shaft with the u joint in it?
    I have replaced the steering guibo/universal joint. I have not replaced the steering column shaft.

    Although it does sound very much like your tyre issue, I am not convinced that this is my issue. I have tried 2 different sets (Bridgestones and my current Michelin PS3's), with no difference between them. I have OEM style 68's, and I recently replaced the fronts due to one cracked wheel and one bent wheel. I replaced them with OEM style 68's, and the only difference was less vibration (due to the lack of bend). The bent wheel was like that when I bought the car and the other one just cracked one day.... The new wheels are like new.

    I have seen 'roadforce' balancing mentioned across the forums but I have no idea what it is. Over here I have only ever seen the traditional spin balance machines.

  2. #52
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    I had a poor handling problem that I chased for 10 years! It started after I hit a nasty pothole under a bridge. I replaced so many parts that I can rebuild the front end in my sleep. The problem turned out to be the subframe hole in which the LCA inner balljoint shaft sits. The hole was slightly elongated by the impact!! But, there was absolutely no tire, wheel or suspension damage. That really blew some minds!!

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellmet View Post
    Although it does sound very much like your tyre issue, I am not convinced that this is my issue...
    I was just paralleling, more of an anecdote really. I wasn't implying that your issue and my issue were one and the same.
    After what dhurley said I retract my "opinion" of tire issue.
    Last edited by Doge; 04-27-2016 at 10:46 AM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellmet View Post
    I have seen 'roadforce' balancing mentioned across the forums but I have no idea what it is. Over here I have only ever seen the traditional spin balance machines.
    Roadforce is found in the U.S. and I have not seen it here in Europe yet. What it does is balance the tire while on the car, so it can also balance the brakes, hub, ect.

    After the PSI stuff, I quit reading, I agree or not, it is better to be the bigger man and just walk away.

    Let us know what you find out once the car is on the rack, as it has to be something really odd after all of this.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    After the PSI stuff, I quit reading, I agree or not, it is better to be the bigger man and just walk away.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    Roadforce is found in the U.S. and I have not seen it here in Europe yet. What it does is balance the tire while on the car, so it can also balance the brakes, hub, ect.

    After the PSI stuff, I quit reading, I agree or not, it is better to be the bigger man and just walk away.

    Let us know what you find out once the car is on the rack, as it has to be something really odd after all of this.
    Roadforce is not done with the tire/wheel on the car. It's done on a Hunter balance machine, which is just a more sophisticated spin balancer that has the capability of measuring the spring rate of the tire and suggesting corrective measures to minimize differences. Balancing while on the vehicle is completely different. It balances the whole rotating assembly, but does not measure tire spring rate. The two achieve different results. Wish there was a way to incorporate both, but it doesn't exist.
    Last edited by dhurley34; 04-27-2016 at 12:56 PM.

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    Let's explore a popular problem solving technique where we go back to the point of failure. Did your vehicle have this problem before changing out all of those parts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhurley34 View Post
    Let's explore a popular problem solving technique where we go back to the point of failure. Did your vehicle have this problem before changing out all of those parts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellmet View Post
    The problem has been there since I bought the car, and as I mentioned in the original post, practically all of the changes that I've made have had a positive impact on handling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doge View Post
    Must have missed that post by the OP. What is the item that had the most positive impact?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhurley34 View Post
    Must have missed that post by the OP. What is the item that had the most positive impact?
    Changing the FCAB's and RTAB's made the most positive impact by far, although these were also the first things that I changed.


    On another note, the guy who offered to let me use his ramps is now ignoring me so I doubt I'll get any ramp time. When it stops raining I'll get the car on jackstands and have another good look underneath.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
    I had a poor handling problem that I chased for 10 years! It started after I hit a nasty pothole under a bridge. I replaced so many parts that I can rebuild the front end in my sleep. The problem turned out to be the subframe hole in which the LCA inner balljoint shaft sits. The hole was slightly elongated by the impact!! But, there was absolutely no tire, wheel or suspension damage. That really blew some minds!!
    I will bear this in mind and try and check all the mounting points that I can find. This type of damage is probably going to be the likely culprit. How did you manage to fix it?

    I don't know why people offer to do things and then bail out, probably just to look good in the moment.
    Last edited by Hellmet; 04-28-2016 at 07:57 AM.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellmet View Post
    Changing the FCAB's and RTAB's made the most positive impact by far, although these were also the first things that I changed. On another note, the guy who offered to let me use his ramps is now ignoring me so I doubt I'll get any ramp time. When it stops raining I'll get the car on jackstands and have another good look underneath. I will bear this in mind and try and check all the mounting points that I can find. This type of damage is probably going to be the likely culprit. How did you manage to fix it? I don't know why people offer to do things and then bail out, probably just to look good in the moment.
    The subframe will be replaced.

  12. #62
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    When you have a chance, inspect the front and rear sway bar end links if you haven't already.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhurley34 View Post
    When you have a chance, inspect the front and rear sway bar end links if you haven't already.
    The fronts are new, haven't checked the rears.


    I would like to add an extra piece of information, about 1cm off center in each direction, the steering is EXTREMELY light, it feels as if there is play in the steering but there is NOT. In that 1cm each way, the wheels DO move, it just feels really light. I don't have even a mm of play though (turning the steering wheel with the wheels staying stationary). I'm not sure if this is normal, or even if it has anything to do with the 'bump steer' problem, as the bump steer occurs even mid corner when the steering is tight. I've also noticed that the car isn't very stable when passing trucks on the highway, the change in air pressure makes the car sway. (Again, I'm not sure how normal this is.).

  14. #64
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    Ok, I have the car on jackstands (I've just removed my cdv) and I have been having a good look around underneath to look for anything abnormal. I have found something that could possibly/hopefully play a part in my issue.

    All subframe bolts are very tight apart from the passenger front bolt, which although is tight-ish, appears to be stripped and won't torque up to specs. It is not difficult to move.

    I personally can't get any movement out of the subframe, but I imagine that with the weight of the car on the ground, the subframe is allowed to shift very slightly when I hit bumps. Does this sound feasible??

    This is the bolt:


    I have ordered a new one from bmw which I'll pick up tomorrow morning. Now, I'm not sure what the best way to go about this is as I have not had much experience with recovering damaged threads. Should I try and fit the new bolt and see if it torques to spec, or is it more likely that the thread inside the frame rail is damaged too? I have been searching a bit, and it seems that the bolt thread is designed to be softer than the frame rail thread to avoid damage, but I'm not sure how accurate this is.
    Last edited by Hellmet; 05-02-2016 at 08:01 AM.

  15. #65
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    That seems promising (for finding the fault of course). A bad bolt can cause some weird things to happen...strange it's only the one.

  16. #66
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    The question is why is it stripped in the first place. Was the subframe removed for some reason by the PO? I would run a tap through the threads in the hole to clean them up before installing the new bolt. Its important to have that particular bolt tight to not increase the probability of tearing the subframe sheetmetal. The torsional load is spread primarily on that bolt and the drivers rear. If one is loose, it will rock back and forth like a see-saw until sheetmetal splits.
    Last edited by dhurley34; 05-02-2016 at 02:11 PM.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhurley34 View Post
    The question is why is it stripped in the first place. Was the subframe removed for some reason by the PO? I would run a tap through the threads in the hole to clean them up before installing the new bolt. Its important to have that particular bolt tight to not increase the probability of tearing the subframe sheetmetal. The torsional load is spread primarily on that bolt and the drivers rear. If one is loose, it will rock back and forth like a see-saw until sheetmetal splits.
    The PO must have done something, I don't know what or why though. I'm going to pick the new bolt up tomorrow, but I have no tapping tools or experience with this. I'm not sure what to do, I hate giving anything I own to anyone else as professionals are very lazy and unprofessional here.

    From your comment though, it looks like it could be influential on my specific problem.
    Last edited by Hellmet; 05-02-2016 at 02:35 PM.

  18. #68
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    So they're...UNprofessionals!
    ....anyone....anyone???...no?...*hangs head in shame*

    Tapping is easy, but if you haven't done it before I wouldn't start with this unless you're confident. You would need a specific type of tap too (there are many types for the same thread and bore).
    Do you have a friend that works in a machine shop? That person should know how to hand-tap for clearance...

    Look on youtube and watch a video on "clearing threads with a tap" it is also called "chasing the threads"..you may be undervaluing your abilities, FWIW.

  19. #69
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    Alright, I would put a very light coat of thin cutting oil or WD-40 on the bolt and try to toque it. If it strips, the only other way to fix it would be to perform surgery. Which would be to cut a small hole in the sheetmetal around the top side of the bolt, attach a nut to the end of the bolt, tighten it, then weld the window back up.

  20. #70
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    With how that bolt looks don't you think it's more of an inevitability that the new bolt WILL strip?
    I have had that happen in my devices and the only remedy is to re-tap it. I have tried with other bolts and I ended up just scrapping them because of the compromised threading.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    You still having this problem? What I would do is go back thru the whole front end and re-torque every bolt to ensure they are tight. Next I would take a look at the front sub-frame to see if it is tight too.

    On some roads you will get the trim lining or trim vanning.

    What size are the front tires?
    Wow hit this on the head!

    I am sorry it took so long to get under the car, but yeah do chase the threads with a tap. You can get a single tap at most automotive stores and take the bolt with you to ensure you get the proper size.
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  22. #72
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    Got a new bolt and tapped the hole. The bolt now goes in nice and smooth but I still can't get any torque on it, even less than I had on it yesterday. The bolt just pops back out. What the hell can I do now?

    I imagine I'll have to take it to a shop and get a helicoil or similar put in.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Hellmet; 05-03-2016 at 12:26 PM.

  23. #73
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    That or find a larger bolt to put up in there by one size larger. Sometimes you can find bolts like that at either Hardware stores or automotive parts store.
    Darin
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  24. #74
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    The problem with using a helicoil for the same size bolt or using a larger bolt is that the threaded metal is pretty thin so there's not much "meat" to use. It must be done with surgical precision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhurley34 View Post
    The problem with using a helicoil for the same size bolt or using a larger bolt is that the threaded metal is pretty thin so there's not much "meat" to use. It must be done with surgical precision.
    +1
    Helicoil is bad for this use, it's way too load bearing.
    That sucks, but the thread was beyond remediation if chasing it resulted thusly. It was more of a "Hail-Mary" anyway as the bolt looked really gnarled.
    You probably ended up re-tapping a cross-threaded portion, this opens up the thread edge closer to the shank bore...which means you won't be able to torque it ever again...at least not without doing the same exact thing.

    I like dhurley's suggestion with the cutting back a flap, tack welding an appropriate nut and then re-welding the flap shut...possibly with some reinforcement.

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