Does BMW's performance reputation still exists? Does that even matter?

[Tomcat104]

I've been wondering about this for a while, are BMW really still the "ultimate driving machine"? Does that even matter?

Why do I ask? I've tested the F30 3 series recently and it just felt more remote, sterile and numb than my current E90 (and the E36 I had before that). Granted, this was a pre-facelift version and perhaps the post-facelift F30 may have better steering feel and road feedback, but it made me ponder, does BMW still deserve that performance reputation? Or is that pass its sell-by-date and BMW is just another plain vanilla luxury brand indistinguishable from any other?

Sure, BMW still have the M models and the 2 series coupe, which from what I've heard, retains the classic handling prowess expected by traditional bimmer fans. But in general, BMW appears determined to move away from its performance foundation now to cater to all needs and wants, including soccer moms (BMW 2 series Active Tourer-not offered in the US as far as I am aware, but a soccer mom wagon for all intents and purpose). I understand BMW needs to provide a substantial profit and hence dividends to its shareholders. As a business strategy, you can't fault them. I'm not even necessarily against a front-wheel drive, heresy or not, because under the right design and conditions, a front wheel drive car can be fun to drive with decent handling (i.e. the VW GTI and Audi A3). But in trying to please everyone so long as they have the money to pay for a bimmer, has BMW diluted its performance heritage to the point it has disappeared? Can BMW really say its different to Mercedes, Audi, Lexus or Cadillac? I don't think so. And does that even matter? Are we actually ok with a BMW that is pretty much just another luxury auto brand hardly different than any other?

[MassiveWalrus]

i agree. Hence why i will not buy a brand new BMW. Ive leased a F10 550i spt pkg & a 335i M sport and they do not feel like my E30, E34, E36 & E46. Call me old fashion but i like my cars with old style suspension and hydraulic steering.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

I can't stand having the f30 loaners, they are just boring to drive. But they still have great performance oriented models. The 235 is a great car, the m2 is a great car, m3/4 are also quite raw. One of my favorite cars that bmw made in a long time has been the 1 series also. E36 basically with modern amenities.

[Tomcat104]

i agree. Hence why i will not buy a brand new BMW. Ive leased a F10 550i spt pkg & a 335i M sport and they do not feel like my E30, E34, E36 & E46. Call me old fashion but i like my cars with old style suspension and hydraulic steering.

Yeah, I can't help but feel disappointed about BMW in some respects. On balance, I guess one can say the F30 is still a reasonably good car to drive with decent handling, but it just does not feel like a 3 series. It has a level of detachment between the driver and the road that you would not expect from a 3 series. I suppose I can consider the 2 series coupe, but the number of bmw models that retains the classic handling and road feedback seems to shrink each year.

[RyansBMW]

Perception of how something feels is different that how its performing. The newer cars don't feel as raw like previous generations but the older generation cars don't hold a candle to what these new cars can do.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Perception of how something feels is different that how its performing. The newer cars don't feel as raw like previous generations but the older generation cars don't hold a candle to what these new cars can do.

I feel like the new m3/4 and m2 are plenty raw, perception kind of works both ways though, we just assume these aren't as raw. But in their stock form, I'd venture a guess that the m2 and m4 are much more raw than e46 was, or the e90. The biggest drawback to these cars is the electric steering, that's really it.

[montaillou]

Sure, BMW still have the M models and the 2 series coupe, which from what I've heard, retains the classic handling prowess expected by traditional bimmer fans.

So, they're a car company that wants to offer more than just one type of car. They do have shareholders after all.

[Tomcat104]

So, they're a car company that wants to offer more than just one type of car. They do have shareholders after all.

And I never said they don't have to worry about shareholders (read my original post). But I'm getting a little tired of the argument that "Its business" when it comes to their core models. Like I said, I understand their rationale to cover more segments of the market. I don't even object to a front-wheel drive bimmer so long as it drives well. But their sense of connection to the road, that feeling is missing from their base models.

Before, you don't need to get a M model or top of the range regular model (i.e. 340i) to get that road feedback. Now, the newer models may have better performance (i.e. superior 0-60 time), but the sensation is more sterile, more diluted.

[GTRSv]

Drive a DCT 135i <3

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Drive a DCT 135i <3

My gf has one, gunmetal with red interior, m sport 135i, with dct. I lvoe that car because it really reminds me of the e36 m.

My 2 feels different, but still a lot of fun.

[BimmerBreaker]

2002 owners feel the E21 was numb and boring
E21 owners feel the E30 was numb and boring
E30 owners feel the E36 was numb and boring
E36 owners feel the E46 was numb and boring
E46 owners feel the E92 was numb and boring
E92 owners feel the F30 was numb and boring

Rest assured that F30 owners will feel the next generation is numb and boring
Such is life.

[xxxxxxx]

BMW has stopped using the tagline "The Ultimate Driving Machine".

Why?

Because that's not what they make any more.

Now it's "Sheer Driving Pleasure". We're getting closer. As detached as the driver is, sheer Riding Pleasure Would be more like it.

"But they're a business, they're in this to make money for their share holders." Just another way of saying they have sold their soul. That special thing which made the older BMW's special. Not every company is as eager and willing to depart from the promise of a unique quality for more money. And in the future, my money will go to them, or to older cars, but not BMW.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

BMW has stopped using the tagline "The Ultimate Driving Machine".

Why?

Because that's not what they make any more.

Now it's "Sheer Driving Pleasure". We're getting closer. As detached as the driver is, sheer Riding Pleasure Would be more like it.

"But they're a business, they're in this to make money for their share holders." Just another way of saying they have sold their soul. That special thing which made the older BMW's special. Not every company is as eager and willing to depart from the promise of a unique quality for more money. And in the future, my money will go to them, or to older cars, but not BMW.

They haven't stopped using the phrase... I don't know where you got that, but they have had both phrases for a long time, the sheer driving pleasure is kind of a conversion from the German advert they had for Freude am fahren..

They still use the ultimate driving machine in their adverts. ..

I have been on this board like 12 years now, and seriously it has been funny to see the e30 guys rag on the e36 guys, the e36 guys would say the E46 was a hairdressers car, then the e90 came out and they talked of the E46 being the last great bmw, now they are taking about how the e90 was the last true bmw. Give it a break seriously, the brand evolves, they can't just make the e30 for 50 years, get real some of you, the new m cars are through and through true bmws from every aspect. The m2 embodies all of the bmw trairs, the m235 is also an amazing car in a lot of ways. The 228 is also a great car, small nimble, light, etc. Oh yeah bmw is still one of the brands that offers manuals on their cars...

I am curious who these other uncompromising companies are? It sure as hell isn't audi, or benz, even porsche is "becoming too soft" these days according to their owners. This is the same old argument being repeated year after year.

[montaillou]

Not every company is as eager and willing to depart from the promise of a unique quality for more money.

Could you name some of these companies, ones that are or were of BMW's size when they lost their soul?

[bostonaudi]

I am curious who these other uncompromising companies are? It sure as hell isn't audi, or benz, even porsche is "becoming too soft" these days according to their owners. This is the same old argument being repeated year after year.

It sure as heck isn't Porsche, their recent (car) models can all be taken straight to a track event right off the showroom floor, beaten mercilessly all day, go like hell and ask for more. Which has pretty much been the case with Porsche since they started.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

It sure as heck isn't Porsche, their recent (car) models can all be taken straight to a track event right off the showroom floor, beaten mercilessly all day, go like hell and ask for more. Which has pretty much been the case with Porsche since they started.

What? Because they didn't spark plenty of controversy with electric steering and pdk only gt3rs? Really? Feel free to take a non s porsche macan or Cheyenne to the track.... and beat it on it all day.

[ELVA164]

2002 owners feel the E21 was numb and boring
E21 owners feel the E30 was numb and boring
E30 owners feel the E36 was numb and boring
E36 owners feel the E46 was numb and boring
E46 owners feel the E92 was numb and boring
E92 owners feel the F30 was numb and boring

Rest assured that F30 owners will feel the next generation is numb and boring
Such is life.

This is very accurate.