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Thread: E36 Hater's Phase 3, AKA what's a budget build?

  1. #126
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    I have the s52 head sitting on my bench ready for disassembly which is good cuz I can keep running the car till its done then make the switch. Its also a rebuilt low mileage head so I know the guides aren't worn. Just need to order some stuff from supertech and I'll be good and ready

  2. #127
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    The wv golf tdi has a fuel cooler ,it's a small radiator under the car,maybe the guys with two pumps should try to put one on the return line and watch the fuel temps.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    its like nearly 10% more flow i think... If you convert to 6mm..

    The throat diameter of an M50 valve seat is 28mm, which is an area of 6.1544 CM². A 6mm valve stem is .2826 CM², and a 7mm valve stem is .38465 CM². This is a reduction in throat area of 2% by using 7mm valves.

    However, this does not mean there will actually be a 2% reduction in flow. It is actually very important to maintain a minimum throat diameter when porting heads because you need to have a venturi effect in the throat to build some airspeed in the port and get inertia in the air going past the valve seat. The optimal ratio for this is a throat diameter is about 85-90% of the valve seat sealing diameter. An M50 head with stock valve is about 87.5%. Notice this formula factors in the throat diameter rather than the throat area. This is because the geometry of the throat going into the valve seat is much more important than the throat area. The air speed in the port is at its absolute highest in the throat of the port close to the valve seat. The air is rushing around the corner created by the valve seat to get out the valve and airspeed is slower and slower the further you go away from the seat. Even at full lift the air speed near the valve stem is much lower than near the valve seat. At low lift where the majority of the actual air is flowed, the valve stem has absolutely no affect on flow because the the curtain area of the open valve will be far less than the throat diameter. The valve stem diameter is not particularly important because it occupies a space in the port that is not choked in flow.
    Last edited by someguy2800; 04-14-2016 at 05:33 PM.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  4. #129
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    I just looked for a few minutes.. cant find anything on my phone...

    I vaguely remember finding someone who posted flow data from a while back and If I remember correctly there was like a 16cfm difference out of something like 200cfm..
    1989 535i - sold
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    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  5. #130
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    Good stuff guys makes allot of sense! Thanks

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    I just looked for a few minutes.. cant find anything on my phone...

    I vaguely remember finding someone who posted flow data from a while back and If I remember correctly there was like a 16cfm difference out of something like 200cfm..
    I would be pretty skeptical of that without seeing it with my own eyes. Also small changes such as back grinding the valves and the way the seat was cut, the proximity of the flow bench tube to the valves, and whether or not a clay radius was used on the port opening make big differences in flow. A stock M50 head flows about 240 on the intake.

    I happen to be reading an article earlier today where they were testing a wedge type cylinder head and a hemi type cylinder head on the same BBF short block with same cam, similar headers, intake, ect... Long story short the wedge head flows 392 CFM and the Hemi head flows 407 CFM, but the wedge head made 805 hp and the Hemi head made 914. The Hemi head made more power at every RPM tested. The reason is due to port geometry. The air speeds and pressures in a real running motor are much higher than on a flow bench. When I was in school I remember seeing an example of a short stroke SBC NA drag motor where they replaced a 245cc head with an intelligently ported 220cc head and made more power at every RPM even though the smaller head flowed worse at all lifts above .200"

    this was the article, its a pretty good read.

    http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...ate-dyno-test/

    - - - Updated - - -

    When I was learning to port in school I had a SBC dart head that I had brought up to about 320 CFM from as cast which was like 270 or so. I never touched a thing before the throat and this was on a 2.02 valve. Anyway I made a small change to the chamber and went to flow it again only to find it was down 40 cfm. I had accidentally put a 3.75" plate on it rather than the proper 4" plate.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  7. #132
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    Spoke with the machine shop today, block will be ready on monday.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Spoke with the machine shop today, block will be ready on monday.
    Wow. I wish my machine shop was as fast as yours. Did they assemble the bottom end completely or just machine the block?

  9. #134
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    Just machine the block, I'll be putting it together and gapping the rings.

  10. #135
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    How quick you need that crank ?
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  11. #136
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    I have my old motor I broke some pistons on, i can dig it up, i think the crank was okay, ill let you know by sunday if I need it okay.

  12. #137
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    Frank,

    Glad to see your new setup is underway!
    Good luck and can't wait to see it at MPact

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Just machine the block, I'll be putting it together and gapping the rings.
    Outstanding!! The red bull WILL ride again!!!

  14. #139
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    I haz a s54 crank laying about


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  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Anyone use a vibrant race muffler on their cars? Vollosso your car sounds great, I didnt get a resonator because I want that "supra rasp" so I got the race muffler whicj has a very slim body.

    Also im surprised nobody is hating on the TPV "n1", style vibrant, I cant wait to have it on my car I think it will complete the look I want.
    Cant wait to see it and hear it man. Good luck with the build.

  16. #141
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    Car looks Beautiful, very tastefully done

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by George318 View Post
    What if you put an external pump in line under the car,i think is going to help a lot.
    i've always wondered if you guys with your heavy fuel demands, used such as set up and I guess you do, sounds pretty cool...
    Last edited by angeleye540i; 04-16-2016 at 12:53 PM.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    My understand of brushless is cursory but the way i understand it is the speed is controlled by the angle at which the magnetic field is applied.. Regardless i feel like pulsing the power constantly would wear the motor, but perhaps i am wrong
    angle for speed + magnitude for torque

    The whole point of the brushless set up is that whole thing of pulsing electricity to the motor does not wear on the motor... Every time a brushed motor get power it sparks and creates bad connections where the brushes are brushless doesn't do that... I'm no forced induction expert, however I'm learning a lot from you guys, I do know a lot about electrical engineering though
    Last edited by angeleye540i; 04-16-2016 at 12:52 PM.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by angeleye540i View Post
    angle for speed + magnitude for torque

    The whole point of the brushless set up is that whole thing of pulsing electricity to the motor does not wear on the motor... Every time a brushed motor get power it sparks and creates bad connections where the brushes are brushless doesn't do that... I'm no forced induction expert, however I'm learning a lot from you guys, I do know a lot about electrical engineering though
    it was interesting to find a rc car brushless speed control rebranded by AMS for an alpha9 i was working on.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Hofmeister; 04-17-2016 at 03:02 PM.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hofmeister View Post
    it was interesting to find a rc car brushless speed control rebranded by AMS for an alpha9 i was working on.
    Well woulda look at that!

  21. #146
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    I noticed that too. I run that castle ESC in my 1/10 scale RC's

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  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyr283 View Post
    I noticed that too. I run that castle ESC in my 1/10 scale RC's

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    especially funny when you see the price hike from ams

  23. #148
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    Got my turbo from Turbo lab of america, they did the right thing as far as customer service goes, everyone has issues, and I was given a discount due to my issues but in the end im happy.



    Billet 67x95 comp wheel and standard 64mm turbine in 10 blade trim which should flow more.

    Lets see if we can kiss 800whp this season.

    Also picked up my block from the machine shop, im pretty much ready to assemble.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Got my turbo from Turbo lab of america, they did the right thing as far as customer service goes, everyone has issues, and I was given a discount due to my issues but in the end im happy. Billet 67x95 comp wheel and standard 64mm turbine in 10 blade trim which should flow more. Lets see if we can kiss 800whp this season. Also picked up my block from the machine shop, im pretty much ready to assemble.
    Good stuff! I look forward to your results.
    OLD
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    636whp
    1/4 mile: 10.91@144.38
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_f7fUVqblI

    NEW BUILD
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    520whp
    635wtq
    120.51mph trap speed




  25. #150
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