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Thread: E36 Hater's Phase 3, AKA what's a budget build?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    if you have larger cylinders (ie. more displacement) you are consuming more air per cylinder.. if you're using more air, you need more fuel to reach your target AFR.

    Remember you are adding fuel to the air mass, not the other way around.
    Yes, but AFR is a function of power is it not? Also, air mass is a function of volume and density. Your volume is lower, but your air density is higher due to running more boost.



    Sorry for derailing this thread. Everyone just seems to be stabbing in the dark to explain your power. Let all just agree you made the power and stop the derailment I caused. Sorry

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    Last edited by cragg56; 04-12-2016 at 07:32 PM.

  2. #77
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    I don't think we are on the same page. I'm referring to two engine with the same mass flow, not necessarily the same boost pressure. Are you saying that all else being equal a 2.5 making 700 whp at 28lbs of boost will use less LPH of fuel than a 3.2 making 700 whp at 20 lbs of boost, both at there peak HP rpm? How about a 6 liter v8 at 10 lbs of boost making 700 whp?


    86 325es, 2.8L NV m50, S366, Megasquirt 2, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, T56 Magnum trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  3. #78
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    Visual representation, only difference between the two is engine displacement.

    Notice the injector DC and fuel flow curve differences.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by NOTORIOUS VR; 04-12-2016 at 07:28 PM.

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  4. #79
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    you have the boost pressure the same so the mass flow and power would be substancially higher on the 3.2. Im talking about two motors making the same peak power and same mass flow of air


    86 325es, 2.8L NV m50, S366, Megasquirt 2, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, T56 Magnum trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  5. #80
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    Anyone use a vibrant race muffler on their cars? Vollosso your car sounds great, I didnt get a resonator because I want that "supra rasp" so I got the race muffler whicj has a very slim body.

    Also im surprised nobody is hating on the TPV "n1", style vibrant, I cant wait to have it on my car I think it will complete the look I want.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    you have the boost pressure the same so the mass flow and power would be substancially higher on the 3.2. Im talking about two motors making the same peak power and same mass flow of air
    Take the boost away completely to simplify this all.

    The 3.2L will require more fuel because it draws in more air then a 2.5L so it will make more power due to a higher mass of air going into the motor, which will require more fuel, if you're going to compare by saying that the LPH between a 2.5 @ 26.5 # is the same as a 3.2 @ 17.5 #, of course that will calculate out more or less. Ain't no one making 700+whp on 17.5 psi though.

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Ain't no one making 700+whp on 17.5 psi though.
    Unless your name is Derek

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Anyone use a vibrant race muffler on their cars? Vollosso your car sounds great, I didnt get a resonator because I want that "supra rasp" so I got the race muffler whicj has a very slim body. Also im surprised nobody is hating on the TPV "n1", style vibrant, I cant wait to have it on my car I think it will complete the look I want.
    Yeah a race muffler will up the rasp for sure xD but i think 4" will rasp more inherently.... Soooo...

    I built a few exhausts for my car now, try and use only 45* bends everywhere, it will lower your drone in the cabin.

    By n1, you mean the tip? I like it.
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Unless your name is Derek
    who.dat

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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Take the boost away completely to simplify this all.

    The 3.2L will require more fuel because it draws in more air then a 2.5L so it will make more power due to a higher mass of air going into the motor, which will require more fuel, if you're going to compare by saying that the LPH between a 2.5 @ 26.5 # is the same as a 3.2 @ 17.5 #, of course that will calculate out more or less. Ain't no one making 700+whp on 17.5 psi though.
    I'm saying 700 hp at 7k rpm on a 2.5 should use the same fuel as 700 hp at 7k rpm on a 3.0 if the boost is the same.

    "Believe nothing you hear, half of what you read"


  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    who.dat
    thats me lol
    328i Sedan Twin s366's, 6.0LS, TH400, MS3 Ultimate
    9.20 at 150 on 22psi

  12. #87
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    Back on track boys. This is a build thread. Let's stay on the topic of this sweet build. No more fuel talk. If we're interested in a debate someone fire up a new thread.

    Sorry I started the OT

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    Last edited by cragg56; 04-12-2016 at 07:46 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fender13Bender View Post
    I'm saying 700 hp at 7k rpm on a 2.5 should use the same fuel as 700 hp at 7k rpm on a 3.0 if the boost is the same.
    Yes... But the power would only be the same because the 3l would be moving less air than it should or the 2.5 would be moving more air than is should..
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fender13Bender View Post
    I'm saying 700 hp at 7k rpm on a 2.5 should use the same fuel as 700 hp at 7k rpm on a 3.0 if the boost is the same.
    only if BSFC is identical, then it has to use the same amount of fuel..

    ok sorry for the OT


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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    Yeah a race muffler will up the rasp for sure xD but i think 4" will rasp more inherently.... Soooo...

    I built a few exhausts for my car now, try and use only 45* bends everywhere, it will lower your drone in the cabin.

    By n1, you mean the tip? I like it.
    Will keep that in mind, its pretty much a straight shot fron the trans point, hard to keep it with minimal bends as top mount but we are going to flare 3-3.5inch dp in the engine bay and snake it around the shock tower, have a vbanded section there like matt (fender13bender) did so its easy to swap out plugs and pop the valve cover off, and as it reaches the bottom of the car its going to flare to a 4 inch exhaust with the small vibrant race muffler after the trans crossmember and vibrant tpv muffler out back.

    And yes the n1 style big cannon tip, I've always loved the look.
    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    who.dat
    Dburt86 with the 6.0 chevy twin turbo swapped e36 sedan lol.
    Last edited by E36 HateR; 04-12-2016 at 07:51 PM.

  16. #91
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    Rpm is also relevant because afr is what is used to control heat. At lower rpm you need more fuel to keep the cylinder cool.. when the heat is in the cylinder a shorter time at higher rpm you can use a bit less fuel.. So if it makes more power 1k later you could squeeze more power out of the same injectors..

    But at really high rpm you also have less total time they can be open... Anyway...
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    only if BSFC is identical, then it has to use the same amount of fuel..

    ok sorry for the OT

    I'm just thinking he's going from high to lower compression, but bigger motor. I'd say fuel consumption will be similar IMO.

    "Believe nothing you hear, half of what you read"


  18. #93
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    Hah i like the tip. We will see how huge it looks in the bumper though hah!

    I was tired of fabbing and just cut a hard angle and tacked it on my exhaust while it was still on the car:

    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fender13Bender View Post
    I'm just thinking he's going from high to lower compression, but bigger motor. I'd say fuel consumption will be similar IMO.
    As far as compression vs displacement goes, from all the research I've done, the favorable trade off is drop compression for displacement, the high compression/high displacement combos are a much better race application but I want a little more of a street able setup, especially with me wanting to drive it long distances and beat on it on pump gas.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    Hah i like the tip. We will see how huge it looks in the bumper though hah!

    I was tired of fabbing and just cut a hard angle and tacked it on my exhaust while it was still on the car:

    4 inch tip? Any more pics?

  20. #95
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    3.5"

    I just took a couple for you, hah that 4" is gonna be large!!



    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  21. #96
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    Nice man, I feel like the 4inch will look great especially with the diffuser I have.

    Last edited by E36 HateR; 04-12-2016 at 08:07 PM.

  22. #97
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    Perfect with diffuser. Agreeeeedddd!
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  23. #98
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    I've got a 3.5" to dual 3.5" exhaust tips in titanium from HPF that I would let go if someone wanted/needed. I however think it doesn't fit in the stock e36 m3 diffuser (I was running a ACS rear bumper when I bought it)

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

  24. #99
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    I've got a 4 inch tip. Looks great imo.

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  25. #100
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    Another of the 4" tip

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