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Thread: i call on all the 8 series gurus

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon850 View Post
    Also can you connect the multi meter the fuses 23 and 24 and ground and tell me the voltage you are getting when the car is on?
    I'll try this in a few days when I'm finish work and let ya know? What are you thinking?

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  2. #77
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    Just want to make sure pumps are getting proper voltage

    Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

  3. #78
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    Is a 2 psi difference that much? What would you suggest I do?
    This could be attributable to a loss of vacuum on one side of the engine (39psi). Try pulling the vacuum line to each FPR and check the pressure again. Also check for fuel in this line (can cause erratic idle) and replace FPR if so.
    You could also check the vacuum in each intake manifold.... should be about -18inHg at idle.
    Last edited by BMSman; 08-22-2017 at 01:04 PM.

  4. #79
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    I've got a theory--
    You may have bad Cylinder ID (donut) probes-- (Or they may have been installed on the plug wires in the wrong orientation..)
    Since an ignition coil is a big giant flyback transformer, The Spark of the ignition coil generates a ring wave-- With a big peak (several thousand volts), and then some harmonics, including a few cycles of negative voltage. The cylinder ID probes on the other hand, are basically little transformers picking up the energy field coming off the coil wire, and they too will have a similar ring wave but MUCH smaller voltage. This AC voltage gets fed into the DME as a feedback signal, likely down to a TTL 5V level. (You'll also notice in the ETM the resistors BIASing the Cylinder ID probe between 5V and Ground).

    The probes (in the ETM) are labeled North/South. If the probes were installed backwards, they may be picking up the bottom half of the ring wave instead of the top half, and the pulse would go the wrong direction.

    First off-- I'd measure the voltage of the cylinder ID probe connector to make sure the DME is still putting out that ~5V signal (It'll likely be less than 5V based on the ETM diagram)
    Next, If possible, try reversing the cylinder ID probe on the plug wires. If it won't come apart you might be able to do it with a few jumper leads on the X8221 connectors.

    Interestingly-- If someone had aftermarket ignition coils, the voltage transferred to the DME might be too high, and could do all sorts of things. But it would or could also mask reversed cylinder ID probes since the ring wave would be higher magnitude in both directions...

    Edit: Oh yeah-- And I bough a set of brand new plug wires once upon a time that had bad/reversed cylinder ID donuts.. Car wouldn't start when I put them in, had to put my old ones back in..
    Last edited by EEDegreeToDrive; 08-27-2017 at 10:24 AM.

    '94 525i, '89 735i, '91 850i, '81 MB 380SLC (For Sale), '00 323i -- Trying to collect them all, just need a 1 & 6

  5. #80
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    Sorry guys but I haven't had any time to spend on the car to try anything new. I still have to get my multi metre back from my father to check the fuses. I did swap fuel pumps with my spare and the same issue persists. As for the wires, I've already swapped them twice with 2 works oem sets and nothing. I do drive the car to work every morning. As soon as I start the car and pull out of the garage it runs much better. The trouble all starts when it gets to operating temperature. Then there is a big loss of power. Once it's sits over night again of fine for the first minute. I'll try to get some more work done on it this weekend. Thanks again for all the suggestions

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by liquidblueloft View Post
    Sorry guys but I haven't had any time to spend on the car to try anything new. I still have to get my multi metre back from my father to check the fuses. I did swap fuel pumps with my spare and the same issue persists. As for the wires, I've already swapped them twice with 2 works oem sets and nothing. I do drive the car to work every morning. As soon as I start the car and pull out of the garage it runs much better. The trouble all starts when it gets to operating temperature. Then there is a big loss of power. Once it's sits over night again of fine for the first minute. I'll try to get some more work done on it this weekend. Thanks again for all the suggestions
    Reading a little more of your post-- reminds me of a problem my car had..
    One of my ignition coils was bad, but it would work for the first ~20 minutes until it got warm (then presumably something expanded and would arc)..
    If you can identify which bank is down, try swapping ignition coils and see if your problem moves..

    Also, If it's truly temperature dependent, maybe disconnect one or more of the temperature probes and let the car use default values.

    '94 525i, '89 735i, '91 850i, '81 MB 380SLC (For Sale), '00 323i -- Trying to collect them all, just need a 1 & 6

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEDegreeToDrive View Post
    Reading a little more of your post-- reminds me of a problem my car had..
    One of my ignition coils was bad, but it would work for the first ~20 minutes until it got warm (then presumably something expanded and would arc)..
    If you can identify which bank is down, try swapping ignition coils and see if your problem moves..

    Also, If it's truly temperature dependent, maybe disconnect one or more of the temperature probes and let the car use default values.
    The only thing is I swapped out the coils with new oem, off my other car and the didn't change. This is the nightmare I'm living. It's stumped me and some of the best 8ers. I have 2 8's and usually I can figure things out by swapping from the good car. Plus I have lots of spare parts I've collected over the last 15 years. Its so frustrating.
    Last edited by liquidblueloft; 09-01-2017 at 12:55 AM.

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  8. #83
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    If anything, this post will be a great source of information in case someone else has the same problem

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  9. #84
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    Did you meanwhile solve the problem? Maybe mixed up the connections of the oxygen sensors? Someone has a picture which plug from sensors in exhaust goes to which plug in the cable loom plugs coming from the e-box on the 850?
    I know from the E32 750 that quite often people mix up the connectors when they change the oxygen sensors. So the signal from the o2 sensor goes to the 'wrong' DME

    component location view page 7100.0-24
    X6220 4-pin connector gray goes to connector from DME # II page 1210.6-15
    X6210 4-pin connector gray goes to connector from DME # I
    http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e31/e31_91.pdf
    Last edited by shogun; 11-17-2017 at 10:42 PM.
    SHOGUN'S TRICKS AND TIPS FOR THE SEVEN SERIES
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  10. #85
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    Have you tried changing the spark plugs?
    my problems started with a leaking waterpump.
    i changed it out.and replaced both coils
    then the car refused to start.
    i thought that I damaged the brittle wires on the CPS
    I changed them out.
    still no start.
    i changes HT leads
    still no start
    I checked fuel pumps
    1 was seized. Car out of use for a year
    i changed both still no start
    changed plugs NGK
    fires up on 12
    only took me 4 years to fix
    gone for a repaint now
    try changing the fuse on DWA I Think it has a anti tilt divice in the alarm.

  11. #86
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    i ruled this out last summer. I even swapped them for a few day and it was worse. thanks for the suggestion
    Quote Originally Posted by shogun View Post
    Did you meanwhile solve the problem? Maybe mixed up the connections of the oxygen sensors? Someone has a picture which plug from sensors in exhaust goes to which plug in the cable loom plugs coming from the e-box on the 850?
    I know from the E32 750 that quite often people mix up the connectors when they change the oxygen sensors. So the signal from the o2 sensor goes to the 'wrong' DME

    component location view page 7100.0-24
    X6220 4-pin connector gray goes to connector from DME # II page 1210.6-15
    X6210 4-pin connector gray goes to connector from DME # I
    http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e31/e31_91.pdf

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  12. #87
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    i changed my wires to magncore and coils to MSD blaster SS and drove it with no issues for 8 months until i had to fix unrelated problem that took a couple years to sort out.
    Since I've had it back on the road, I've been having these issues. i have even swapped it all back to the original oem setup from two working vehicles with no change.

    Quote Originally Posted by koenig d View Post
    Have you tried changing the spark plugs?
    my problems started with a leaking waterpump.
    i changed it out.and replaced both coils
    then the car refused to start.
    i thought that I damaged the brittle wires on the CPS
    I changed them out.
    still no start.
    i changes HT leads
    still no start
    I checked fuel pumps
    1 was seized. Car out of use for a year
    i changed both still no start
    changed plugs NGK
    fires up on 12
    only took me 4 years to fix
    gone for a repaint now
    try changing the fuse on DWA I Think it has a anti tilt divice in the alarm.

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  13. #88
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    so here is something new that i just discovered relating to my issues. once the car is warmed up i'm getting a misfire. when i looked under the hood i could actually here the misfire. its actually sounds like its coming from the passenger cap/rotors or wire. It leads me to believe that its its one of those that is causing the issues. This is very frustrating since as you all know i have replaced and tested all of these multiple times with known working parts and getting no change. Now that i can hear an issue i may actually be getting somewhere. I'm going to start with ordering a new set of caps and rotors and begin there. I know the set that's in there has less than 10000kms on the but it is possible one is faulty. I'll need a new set eventually for my other 8 and at least this way i can rule them out. I'll keep ya posted.

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by liquidblueloft View Post
    so here is something new that i just discovered relating to my issues. once the car is warmed up i'm getting a misfire. when i looked under the hood i could actually here the misfire. its actually sounds like its coming from the passenger cap/rotors or wire. It leads me to believe that its its one of those that is causing the issues. This is very frustrating since as you all know i have replaced and tested all of these multiple times with known working parts and getting no change. Now that i can hear an issue i may actually be getting somewhere. I'm going to start with ordering a new set of caps and rotors and begin there. I know the set that's in there has less than 10000kms on the but it is possible one is faulty. I'll need a new set eventually for my other 8 and at least this way i can rule them out. I'll keep ya posted.
    I would visually inspect cap and rotor first, also remove the wire sets and test each wire for ohm resistance while flexing the lead. Should be around 6k ohm.
    Coils are cheap enough, I would get those.
    Remove the rotor and check the other side of it . If cap and rotor look good no need to get new, that's not your issue.

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

  15. #90
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    what are the typical signs of a coil going bad? I actually thought that is where i was hearing the misfire or arch sound.


    Quote Originally Posted by dragon850 View Post
    I would visually inspect cap and rotor first, also remove the wire sets and test each wire for ohm resistance while flexing the lead. Should be around 6k ohm.
    Coils are cheap enough, I would get those.
    Remove the rotor and check the other side of it . If cap and rotor look good no need to get new, that's not your issue.

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by liquidblueloft View Post
    what are the typical signs of a coil going bad? I actually thought that is where i was hearing the misfire or arch sound.
    Usually it pukes white goo from the bottom and kills your ecu... but over time they will degrade and put out a weaker current as it it wasent weak already

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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon850 View Post
    Usually it pukes white goo from the bottom and kills your ecu... but over time they will degrade and put out a weaker current as it it wasent weak already

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk
    Visually i don't see anything wrong with it but like i mentioned, i do hear an intermittent arch sound coming from it. I think that is where i will start since i can get one here locally at a decent price, well decent for Canada
    On a side note Dragon850... i just want to say thank you for all your suggestions over the last 2 years. You have been a great source for me with my car. Its because of people like you and the many 850 gurus that make this forum indispensable. I hope to meet you one day and thank you properly.

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by liquidblueloft View Post
    Visually i don't see anything wrong with it but like i mentioned, i do hear an intermittent arch sound coming from it. I think that is where i will start since i can get one here locally at a decent price, well decent for Canada
    On a side note Dragon850... i just want to say thank you for all your suggestions over the last 2 years. You have been a great source for me with my car. Its because of people like you and the many 850 gurus that make this forum indispensable. I hope to meet you one day and thank you properly.
    I appreciate that!
    Keep us updated on what happens when you change caps and rotors. I am sure will get this sorted.
    Anytime you wanna drive down to SF bay area just let me know

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

  19. #94
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    i do not believe it... i just bought a new MSD Blaster SS this afternoon (dragon850's suggestion) to replace the one that has barely any kms on it and the car is running 80% better. HUGE improvement. The idle is smooth, i have improved power and the strong fuel smell is gone. It makes sense but no sense at the same time. It should have run better when i put the OEM set back on but didn't. I have no explanation but it worked. i do still have a response issue which leads me to the throttle bodies but MAJOR improvement. When i bury the petal to the floor there is a delay before the power kicks in but at least the first step is completed.
    Last edited by liquidblueloft; 04-22-2018 at 06:45 PM.

    my Twins 850's and its AMG cousin

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by liquidblueloft View Post
    i do not believe it... i just bought a new MSD Blaster SS this afternoon (dragon850's suggestion) to replace the one that has barely any kms on it and the car is running 80% better. HUGE improvement. The idle is smooth, i have improved power and the strong fuel smell is gone. It makes sense but no sense at the same time. It should have run better when i put the OEM set back on but didn't. I have no explanation but it worked. i do still have a response issue which leads me to the throttle bodies but MAJOR improvement. When i bury the petal to the floor there is a delay before the power kicks in but at least the first step is completed.
    Very happy to hear that!! That's awesome!
    Let me know if you want me to rebuild your throttles.
    Cheers!

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon850 View Post
    Let me know if you want me to rebuild your throttles.
    Cheers!
    Do you happen to give a discount to BF members? I'm looking t get mine done soon. gotta try to rule out my over-fueling issue still. (replaced every part that ever has to do with air-fuel mix, no dice)
    Miciah, when you finish with your car, come help with mine.
    I swear, my cars are like a girlfriend.
    Sometimes its a rough ride, sometimes its smooth motorin'.
    Sometimes she doesnt like how i treat her and sometimes i dont like how she behaves.
    BUT at the end of the day, she loves it when I am inside her.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    Do you happen to give a discount to BF members? I'm looking t get mine done soon. gotta try to rule out my over-fueling issue still. (replaced every part that ever has to do with air-fuel mix, no dice)
    Miciah, when you finish with your car, come help with mine.
    Yes I sure do. I will PM you shortly. Cheers

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