Upping the Boost on my VF SC'd 540. Testing the Failure Limits of the Stock M62?

[angeleye540i]

I'm all about civility and I totally respect that, And yes MC that's all I was ever saying... Equal opportunity troll still tickles me...

Awesome I can't wait to see what happens next... F/I has a special place in my heart but not in my garage, yet... Soon tho...

Daily everyday for 15, you got me beat as I was only DDing for 12 until I retired it to Weekend driver... ONLY because of the ODO/intense restoration I've put it thru, and the modifications which are lovely and get me into trouble aswell...

Also sticking a 540 Around the city that takes forever for the gear box to warm up in the mornings, for 12 years, especially for a pothole filled NON-fun-at-all-ride, got a little old,.. Gotta love the e39, I think we can all agree it's one that just can't be substituted... with ANYthing...

You plan on measuring your accomplishments in WHP anytime after u get your tune figured out, or did I miss something and your having it live dyno tuned?

[philly98540]

New injectors are here. I'm hoping to install them and get an updated tune at Franks very soon.

2016-04-02 21.41.15.jpg

[geargrinder]

Love the Portuguese boxes. I need some of those myself now, with Andrew's results last week.

- - - Updated - - -

For example GG got the number 18 by taking the absolute pressure post compressor divided by atmospheric and then multiplying that quotient by 10 (static CR). That gets 18 if you run 12 PSI. Normally the better formula is square rooting that quotient first. That gets a 13.5 ECR.

Not trying to reopen the stupid argument of stupidity (and this is NOT a 'theoretical only' situation folks the 'ideal gas' argument is that ECR IS ENTIRELY about gases NOT being ideal... so you've got the wrong end of the too-academic-theoretical stick... using PLAIN CR is what is ideal-gas-law based... not the opposite... oh yeah, not re-opening arguments...) But...

Yeah thanks for that Mzigizdminfoijz - I actually didn't do that calculation myself, I used some sites quicky calculator just to prove the point and you're entirely right its obvious not the proper equation to not use the squares... my bad for trusting a web calculator ...

[Zep]

Any updates on this?

I finally managed to get my 3.25" pulley, Bosch greens and TTFS tune installed but the Dayco 5060578 wouldnt fit. So I had to use a locally available 6PK1485 but its now too loose and the belt slip is horrendous.

I am very interested in this setup as I am sure belt slip would not be an issue.

[philly98540]

I've been driving on this setup with the 3.25 pulley since I posted this. It's been great. No issues. Did a couple of redline pulls last night. Boost is solid.

I'm getting set to install injectors, swap to the 2.87 pulley, and get a retune. I may add another idler pulley when I go to the 2.87, as I noticed the belt gets close to the top side belt during revving with that smaller pulley. My goal is to have the tensioner have more take-up so any belt stretch can be compensated for better. I'll post details soon.

[Redshift]

20psi or go home.

[geargrinder]

Zepper - the 60586 / 1485 belts will be too long for small pulley. The 60578 / 1470 (the 2 belt measurement standard equivalents...) should fit well but we have seen variation between mfrs for sure. For the 3.25 w 60578HD Gates green belt i def have no slip and great power and not impossible to fit. Belt is never a concern for me. W an even smaller pulley though i think Chris's wrap idler mod will be more essential.

Suggest you try maybe another mfr 60578 ? A goodyear 1470 is way way way tight for instance and takes super finagling to get on to the point of feeling wrong (although with work you can force it) but the gates "same size" is just enough difft to be fairly workable. Can you get a Gates?

[philly98540]

20psi or go home.

I was hoping you'd make at least 10 so you could keep up.

[Redshift]

I was hoping you'd make at least 10 so you could keep up.

LOL. Your car was already stupid quick. This will just be insane. I'm very happy w/mine how it is now, once the tune is worked out. It's almost too much for street. I don't want to get arrested!

[dk500]

I was hoping you'd make at least 10 so you could keep up.

[mcgnms]

I will run Philly very soon. Hoping for this spring. I will record with my GoPro so everybody can see me get destroyed.

[whiteghost1]

You SC'ed guys do realize that you are inadvertently setting the HP failure limits bar for us nitroused M62tu guys as well, right? ��. Keep up the outstanding work!

[JimLev]

You SC'ed guys do realize that you are inadvertently setting the HP failure limits bar for us nitroused M62tu guys as well, right? ��. Keep up the outstanding work!

Exactly why I just keep upping my flows.

[zeekster27]

Who is doing the custom tunes for this? I gave up on the m62tu because of lack of support from vf ... Swapped to the s62 but the m62tu was a lot cheaper to maintain lol

[philly98540]

Exactly why I just keep upping my flows.

Its sure looking that the M62's can hold a good bit. I'm thinking the water/meth will keep it cool enough at the higher boost. Should be interesting.

How much more juice you shooting for Jim?

- - - Updated - - -

Who is doing the custom tunes for this? I gave up on the m62tu because of lack of support from vf ... Swapped to the s62 but the m62tu was a lot cheaper to maintain lol

Cool S62 swap. Nice. Frank Smith will be tuning it.

[auaq]

Nonsense!

I can't wait for the moment when one of ya guys blow your so called 'glorious M62' engines so that I can make a mockery of yer massive disappointment .... (evil laugh) HAHAHAHA!

[philly98540]

I will run Philly very soon. Hoping for this spring. I will record with my GoPro so everybody can see me get destroyed.

You should be in same ballpark now. After the new set up, we will see.

- - - Updated - - -

Nonsense!

I can't wait for the moment when one of ya guys blow your so called 'glorious M62' engines so that I can make a mockery of yer massive disappointment .... (evil laugh) HAHAHAHA!

Lol. I think your rod bearing just spun.

[auaq]

Knock knock!

Who's there?

Nobody!

Still doing perfectly fine at gazillion miles.

[dk500]

M62 for president. Can take more pressure than any bigoted M5 can ever dream of.

[geargrinder]

lol

[JimLev]

Its sure looking that the M62's can hold a good bit. I'm thinking the water/meth will keep it cool enough at the higher boost. Should be interesting.

How much more juice you shooting for Jim?

No more than another 25HP, pending on the outcome of your next tune and smaller pulley.
To bad you weren't closer, I've got a 5 gal can of M1 that is pretty full. The moving van said they won't take it, might have to give it to the gearcrusher guy.

[philly98540]

How far you moving? Was it that giant garage with a house attached?

[MisterM52]

Gear led me to this thread, this is a brilliant idea, much over looked, and something I want to adapt and incorporate in my own setuos,

So Philly, How many PSI's were you getting from the VF with that pulley before this wonderful mod of yours? Just curious of what a good wrap did for you.

[philly98540]

Gear led me to this thread, this is a brilliant idea, much over looked, and something I want to adapt and incorporate in my own setuos,

So Philly, How many PSI's were you getting from the VF with that pulley before this wonderful mod of yours? Just curious of what a good wrap did for you.

With the 3.25" pulley with the original VF belt set-up, I was getting around 12.5 or so psi of boost. I never did try the new 2.87" pulley with the old VF belt set-up, so I don't have any data to see if there would have been belt slip. My gut and talking to a few people made me think there would have been slip, so I went ahead and made the new pulley set-up with the extra wrap.

- - - Updated - - -

Updates:
I installed the new 42# Bosch Green Giant injectors over the weekend. Pic shows VF supplied 30# Bosch injectors (red) next to the new GG's. VF grinds off the P/N, but those were real Bosch injectors. A lot of the newer kits got lower quality injectors from VF. I will kiss them goodbye for now. They were maxed out at around 460 WHP, so thats not too bad for 30#ers.

2016-04-11 22.03.30.jpg

2016-04-11 22.04.18.jpg



I also was not 100% happy with my original idler pulley set. I noticed as the brand new belt fully broke in, it got a tad too long for my liking when I tried to use it with the 2.87" SC pulley. The tensioner was getting near the end of its travel and close to the upper belt. That set-up is fine with the 3.25" pulley and the belt clearances looked great there. Its just that the available belt "take-up" was limited to account for the belt stretch. Very similar, but not quite as bad as the VF design. Their design requires you to use a belt that barely fits on when new, so that once the belt is old the tensioner is in a good spot in its travel.

So, not to worry, I'll just make a new plate and add another idler pulley. This V2.0 design will give much more "take up" of the belt as it stretches a bit. I laid it out on that fancy Gates design software. (Thanks Schitzo!) Here it is. It uses a slightly longer belt. I'll post details of the adapter plate and all the parts needed soon.

Gates Pulley Layout.jpg



So now I'm all set-up with the 42's, the new V2.0 double idler with the 2.87" SC pulley. On first start, the car ran pig rich as expected. I did a couple of drive cycles and watched as the LTFT's went full -25 (maxed out) on closed loop. My wideband shows AFR's hovering in mid 14's during closed loop, so the factory DME has enough fuel trim available to upgrade from 30# to 42# injectors without needing an immediate re-tune. This is great, because now I can drive the car down to Franks shop without issue. Very cool. Mcmmns confirmed this as well with his car. CEL is now lit for fuel trims maxed out.

So, I did some WOT runs after fuel trims settled out. All I can say is holy crap this car is really fast now. Its a similar jump in power as going from the 3.8 down to the 3.25. The boost is hitting close to 16 psi now!! Lawdy lawdy second and third gear are really fun. The issue is at WOT, the tune is going off tables and now I'm too rich. AFRs in the 10 to 11 range at WOT. The bigger injectors give way too much fuel, but the pulley offsets this a bit as it gives more air, so the AFR's are not horribly low. Car runs and drives great, but there is more power available with these fat AFR's. I am trying to get to Franks soon for a re-tune soon. Here is a AEM output from a second gear pull.

AEM Output with 42s and 287 Pulley.jpg


I'll post some more details of the idler plate and tune results soon.

[AK_5eries]

1 bar on stock internals. Very nice.


Any reason there is no boost being made below 4K RPMs?