Upping the Boost on my VF SC'd 540. Testing the Failure Limits of the Stock M62?

[tptrsn]

He lost huge time at the start because of having a whole bunch of power! That's why for a car like this, that is set up to be able to have a lot of fun accelerating at higher speeds while driving to work or whatever, elapsed time (ET) is not a very relevant measure of anything about the car. For cars with some power, ET is a measure that only matters a lot to cars that are set up specifically for drag racing. So much of the ET is down to what happens at the initial launch and in the first 60'.

Trap speed, which is the speed that the car can achieve in the length of a quarter mile, is a very good comparative measure of what a car's acceleration really feels like when you're driving it. For example, with 10.5mph more than my car can achieve in the quarter mile, I understand perfectly that the philly98540 feels MUCH faster to drive than my car does. As in, my feels pretty good currently, but with this much more power, his car must feel like a whole lot of fun! Now I completely understand why he's such a big fan of his car as a nice driving, fun car. It is quiet, comfortable, handles well, and accelerates like mad. What more can you ask for.

[philly98540]

So you have probably close to 120 REAL, ACTUAL horsepower over my pig of a car!!!! I am happy for you and sad for me.

Gotta put that result in the trap speed thread, that is a pretty tough bar to get over!

I had to scare you with a good trap, but my money says your car will be sailing past mine once you get the bigger turbo on there!

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120, great Chris. 12.4 ain't too shabby either.
I had the same problem hooking up when I was last at the strip. Hope to get there ssometing in the next few weeks, probably won't be till after Thanksgiving. Heading to NC for a week to woof down some turkey.

Thanks Jim. I hope you do get out and hit the strip. Its a fun time. Enjoy your trip back east!!!

Yeah, the street tires and cool temps combined with my sorta noob experience at launching really hurt my starts. I was playing catch up to just about every car I lined up with LOL. Amazing what a good hole shot does for the 1/4.

[geargrinder]

Chris what tires were you brutalizing in this (awesome) smokefest? You still running the AS/3's? If so - POOOR ALL SEASONS and LOL!

You might think about getting a pair of beater rims and tossing some cheap fat sticky rubber on them just for drag runs? Obv don't even need 4 just 2 will suffice so as long as you can pick a straight pair out of a cheap rashed up set of 4 wheels you'd be OK.

[philly98540]

I remember RVA34 (I think) squeezing 315s on 18x11s under the rear on the black LS E39 sedan, though I don't recall the measures undertaken to make them fit.

Excuse me, M5Hunter. He also did poly H-arm and integral link bushings to stiffen the rear for better launch traction.

I remember those guys. Bigger meats and better rear set up would sure help my carimmensely!! But for street, I really like it as is.

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He lost huge time at the start because of having a whole bunch of power! That's why for a car like this, that is set up to be able to have a lot of fun accelerating at higher speeds while driving to work or whatever, elapsed time (ET) is not a very relevant measure of anything about the car. For cars with some power, ET is a measure that only matters a lot to cars that are set up specifically for drag racing. So much of the ET is down to what happens at the initial launch and in the first 60'.

Trap speed, which is the speed that the car can achieve in the length of a quarter mile, is a very good comparative measure of what a car's acceleration really feels like when you're driving it. For example, with 10.5mph more than my car can achieve in the quarter mile, I understand perfectly that the philly98540 feels MUCH faster to drive than my car does. As in, my feels pretty good currently, but with this much more power, his car must feel like a whole lot of fun! Now I completely understand why he's such a big fan of his car as a nice driving, fun car. It is quiet, comfortable, handles well, and accelerates like mad. What more can you ask for.

^^What he said!!!

[516SC]

That is very good trap speed with street tires.
This is mine old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdIbGo8eqM

[philly98540]

Chris what tires were you brutalizing in this (awesome) smokefest? You still running the AS/3's? If so - POOOR ALL SEASONS and LOL!

You might think about getting a pair of beater rims and tossing some cheap fat sticky rubber on them just for drag runs? Obv don't even need 4 just 2 will suffice so as long as you can pick a straight pair out of a cheap rashed up set of 4 wheels you'd be OK.

Yep, AS/3's!! It was still fun to get out and find my trap, but yeah, next time, if there is a next time lol, I'll need something waaay stickier!

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That is very good trap speed with street tires.
This is mine old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdIbGo8eqM

Good ET! Squirming your way down the strip! Looks awesome! What engine mods on your car?

[516SC]

That was stock M60b40, better track best 60 ft was 1.56.

Now stock 4,4 bottom end and modified 4,0 heads and cams and Si is spinning 57000. Way much power now and third 420g..

[dovlet]

That is very good trap speed with street tires.
This is mine old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdIbGo8eqM

It is very dificult to bielive that it is stock engine.

[516SC]

It is very dificult to bielive that it is stock engine.

Stock unopened M60b40 with Si. Only mod was better waterlfow to bank 2.

[philly98540]

Stock unopened M60b40 with Si. Only mod was better waterlfow to bank 2.

What boost were you running?

[516SC]

It was what Si gives 53,000 and 55,000 rpm. I remember log shown 1.33 bar with modified stock headers and 3.5 exhaust.

[philly98540]

Here is my AEM data from the 1/4 mile run. AFR sorta OK, but could be better. Goes mid 10's above 6200. Shame I was lazy and didn't record Testo data. I'd like to see where my timing was. Boost did hit over 16, so I didn't loose anything adding the IC! A tune clean up could help me a little bit more I think, but I may be at the limit of what the stock DME can do. No rpms bins to adjust anything over 6K, and I don't know how to add more bins...



Quarter Mile Screenshot.jpg

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It was what Si gives 53,000 and 55,000 rpm. I remember log shown 1.33 bar with modified stock headers and 3.5 exhaust.

That is some pressure! Do you recall where you set the timing?

[tptrsn]

It was what Si gives 53,000 and 55,000 rpm. I remember log shown 1.33 bar with modified stock headers and 3.5 exhaust.

So do I understand correctly that you mean 1.33Bar above atmospheric? About 19-20psi then?

Here is my AEM data from the 1/4 mile run. AFR sorta OK, but could be better. Goes mid 10's above 6200. Shame I was lazy and didn't record Testo data. I'd like to see where my timing was. Boost did hit over 16, so I didn't loose anything adding the IC! A tune clean up could help me a little bit more I think, but I may be at the limit of what the stock DME can do. No rpms bins to adjust anything over 6K, and I don't know how to add more bins...

Chris, if I'm reading your data correctly, it looks like your AFRs are kind of doing some of the same crazy random garbage that mine were when I was using the DME... For instance, 1st gear at about 5700RPM and 10.5psi, you have about 14.2:1 AFR?!?!?! That would freak me right out! That's the type of thing my DME was doing that was causing me to completely get out of the gas (on the occasions that I actually saw it was happening).

And then as you say, your AFR goes fairly deep in the 10s in the meat of 3rd gear. But then AFRs are comparatively OK in 4th. Ugh. Am I reading it correctly?

[516SC]

That time is droven with pumpgasoline fiwe years ago so don´t remember timing. But there were no power if compare what is now with e85 and M60b44 and Si spinning 57,000.

[philly98540]

Chris, if I'm reading your data correctly, it looks like your AFRs are kind of doing some of the same crazy random garbage that mine were when I was using the DME... For instance, 1st gear at about 5700RPM and 10.5psi, you have about 14.2:1 AFR?!?!?! That would freak me right out! That's the type of thing my DME was doing that was causing me to completely get out of the gas (on the occasions that I actually saw it was happening).

And then as you say, your AFR goes fairly deep in the 10s in the meat of 3rd gear. But then AFRs are comparatively OK in 4th. Ugh. Am I reading it correctly?

Your reading it right, but I think some of the higher AFR "noise" you see in first and part of second gear may be due to me peddling the throttle to get wheelspin under control. I think when you do this, the AFR reading gets messed up some, but I'm speculating a bit. You can see a slight hiccup in the rpm line just before some of those spikes. When I do a rolling first gear pull on the street, I don't see it go near this high as I can roll into it smoother and limit the wheelspin. Are you just trolling me to go MS3!! Its working, lol.

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That time is droven with pumpgasoline fiwe years ago so don´t remember timing. But there were no power if compare what is now with e85 and M60b44 and Si spinning 57,000.

Your current setup is with a totally stock M60B44 bottom end? Did you reduce compression?

[tptrsn]

Troll? Me? Nah....

[516SC]

Your current setup is with a totally stock M60B44 bottom end? Did you reduce compression?[/QUOTE]

Only what 2 mm head gasget do. I drove that with pumpgasoline first one year and then went to E85.
Frend of mine had M62b44 with turbo and E85 it gave from engine 750 and 1100nm


And yes MS 3 is nice

[dovlet]

Deamn Gents, belive me you lucky all if you have E85, methanol, 105octane gas etc. We are here fighting with detonation by decreasing compression, adding acetone and other sheets to gasoline, injecting water, and many many other things. We have no even 90 octane Russian standard.

[tptrsn]

Reducing compression and injecting water work extremely well! They just aren't quite as convenient. E85 is very very nice for sure.

[dovlet]

Reducing compression and injecting water work extremely well! They just aren't quite as convenient. E85 is very very nice for sure.

Yeah bro, works well but sometimes it does not. E85 is good and much better due to cold flame temperature.

[geargrinder]

No rpms bins to adjust anything over 6K, and I don't know how to add more bins...

Chris for sure Motronic tuners frequently rescale tables (add rows/columns etc.)... I believe there's a master table that specifies all the map dimensions and locations usually someplace at the front of the flash, and that's where the matrix can be rescaled or reorganized.

But even short of that, what kind of table are you dealing w/ in ME5? Can't you change the RPM axis to stretch it (i.e. make 6k->6500, 5800->6200, etc.)? That gives you less resolution of course, although what is sometimes done is to push the lost resolution into some spot where you know your tuning values are more linear (i.e. stick the bigger jumps in RPM bins to where the tuning parameter is smoothly linear between values you don't need much resolution as the extrapolation will be accurate... then use that 'stolen' resolution for where you need more.) Of course then you'd want any tables that extend up to redline to be re-scaled like that, so it could get into a tedious process, but it's doable and frequently done AFAIK.

[philly98540]

Chris for sure Motronic tuners frequently rescale tables (add rows/columns etc.)... I believe there's a master table that specifies all the map dimensions and locations usually someplace at the front of the flash, and that's where the matrix can be rescaled or reorganized.

Agreed it likely can be done, but the hard part is finding this "master table". Do you know what name this table is typically called in German? That may help me find it. Otherwise, its a hunt and peck fest for hours if I can even find it. LOL.

But even short of that, what kind of table are you dealing w/ in ME5? Can't you change the RPM axis to stretch it (i.e. make 6k->6500, 5800->6200, etc.)?

I can try that, but I'm worried that messing with say the "WOT Open loop fueling table" rpm axis ONLY, will cause a conflict with another table. I'm not sure how all the tables interplay with each other. Right now they match up AFAICT. I can try it though, and see what happens LOL. More research needed I guess. I did bring up this exact point at Franks, and he was not really keen on messing with the axis. But urgency of the moment presses peoples decisions on such things.

Also, got your email with that link. I will do some more studying on that. Thanks for sending. Anyway, staying with this DME, I'd like to re-scale the MAF eventually so I have full scale readings up to redline. If I am successful at doing that, rescaling the rpm axis as we talked above, may be a moot point. If it knows true air flow, the table as it sits now, may be just fine. Not sure though... Target for me would be to do MAF first, then go from there. Having a full scale MAF would improve summer vs winter AFR fluctuations. Car is tad richer in summer since airlflow is less, but DME dont know it. Watching Thad workout the MS3 tuning in hours sure looks tempting at this point. But alas, my car runs pretty damn good as it sits now, so there is not a burning platform so to speak. Just continuous improvement that will improve the overall power curve and give me some more stuff to learn with this car.

[dovlet]

Bro, can you please make for us little video and put on youtube. Especially last modes with water intercooler.

[philly98540]

No plans to, but maybe I'll get some time in Mexico to get some vids.

[JimLev]

No plans to, but maybe I'll get some time in Mexico to get some vids.

Vacation?

The Eagles kicked some butt yesterday.
Maybe a Pats vs Eagles SB??